# "Starvation mode", regular eating, fasting & stubborn belly fat loss **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 7, 2013, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576 "2013-10-07T09:30:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Cerealbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Cerealbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerealbox)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/81 "2013-10-15T20:25:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So what were you referring to with the phrase “belly fat nonsense.”? spot reduction ---
**Author:** ![romadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@romadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romadea)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/82 "2013-10-15T22:11:11Z")
I usually fast or almost fast for about 16 hours a day. The small meals thing sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice I don’t like to eat a small amount of something. I like to eat a lot. So I usually just skip breakfast and lunch and eat dinner and a snack or two whenever I feel hungry again in the evening. About every other day I’ll eat something before dinner or drink a beverage with calories before dinner. On a practical level I’ve realized I consume fewer calories overall if I just fast. I’m not sure what my body fat percentage is but it’s pretty low for a woman. BMI=21ish ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/83 "2013-10-15T22:46:09Z")
> [@White SIFL](#): > > I don’t mean to be snarky but I think you are going to regret that line of thinking when you get older. It’s other people in my life that need to walk and diet - some are at risk of diabetes and heart disease. My situation is nowhere near as serious. I’m in the normal weight range. I’d just prefer to have a flat stomach. Maybe one day I’ll try harder to get one. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/84 "2013-10-15T23:37:43Z")
Weight (and BMI) is overrated as a metric for individuals. (And boy have we beat that horse into the ground on the boards.) For health risk I’ll take the “overweight” person who is exercising and eating healthily over the “normal BMI” person who isn’t even walking much and eats crap every time. You think that because you are normal BMI you are not at risk of diabetes, or a host of other health complications, from poor exercise and nutrition choices? [Wrong.](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/health/research/more-data-suggests-fitness-matters-more-than-weight.html?_r=0) > [@](#): > > Dr. Neil Ruderman, an endocrinologist at Boston University School of Medicine, was the first to identify a condition he called “metabolically obese normal weight,” in 1981. Such people have weights in the normal range on the B.M.I. chart but also have metabolic abnormalities, including high levels of insulin resistance and triglycerides; they tend to carry fat around the middle, which is more apt to affect the heart, liver and other organs than fat in the hips and thighs. > > “If we’re open-minded when we look at the data, we often find confounding factors that can explain the disease associations we blame on weight,” said Linda Bacon, a nutrition professor at City College of San Francisco and author of “Health at Every Size: The Surprising Truth About Your Weight.” > > Fitness is an important, and often unmeasured, confounder, and the growing pile of paradoxical evidence is forcing experts to re-evaluate its importance. … > > … Research that does tease apart weight and fitness — like a series of studies conducted by Steven Blair at the Cooper Institute in Dallas — shows that being fat and fit is better, healthwise, than being thin and unfit. Regular aerobic exercise may not lead to weight loss, but it does reduce fat in the liver, where it may do the most metabolic damage, according to a recent study at the University of Sydney. > > “More often than not, cardiovascular fitness is a far more important predictor of mortality risk than just knowing what you weigh,” ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/85 "2013-10-16T00:00:21Z")
So what is the general consensus on the Atkins diet? Does it work? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/86 "2013-10-16T01:13:19Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > So what is the general consensus on the Atkins diet? Does it work? It can, and does, for some people. Others will have a hard time sticking to it. Any diet that controls the amount of calories going in will have good results, and Atkins \*applied correctly \*can do that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/87 "2013-10-16T03:07:44Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > …You think that because you are normal BMI you are not at risk of diabetes, or a host of other health complications, from poor exercise and nutrition choices? [Wrong.](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/18/health/research/more-data-suggests-fitness-matters-more-than-weight.html?_r=0) > > **…Dr. Neil Ruderman, an endocrinologist at Boston University School of Medicine, was the first to identify a condition he called “metabolically obese normal weight,” in 1981. Such people have weights in the normal range on the B.M.I. chart but also have metabolic abnormalities, including high levels of insulin resistance and triglycerides; they tend to carry fat around the middle, which is more apt to affect the heart, liver and other organs than fat in the hips and thighs…** Like I said a few times apparently what matters is your waist measurement… e.g. a thin person with a very big belly where the fat is around the organs rather than just under the skin (I’ve seen them before) can be worse than an overweight woman with a large proportion of the weight on their hips and thighs (and bottom and breasts)… if she has a smaller waist measurement… **…“More often than not, cardiovascular fitness is a far more important predictor of mortality risk than just knowing what you weigh,”…** Hmmm well I’m really bad in that department. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/88 "2013-10-16T03:44:57Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > a thin person with a very big belly …ain’t really a thin person at all. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/89 "2013-10-16T07:42:42Z")
> [@Cerealbox](#): > > I’m not sure you read my post very thoroughly. > [@Cerealbox](#): > > spot reduction Ok, I’m not sure that you read the thread very thoroughly. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/90 "2013-10-16T10:25:47Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > If you do a Google search for “the Loch Ness Monster exists” there are lots of results. The problem is that they are all wrong. Same with targeted weight loss. It doesn’t work, never has, never will. There’s at least one study I’ve read where the subjects were given anabolic steroids, and they did lose belly fat mass. Anabolic steroids mimic the effects of having higher testosterone levels, and women do seem to prefer men with less belly fat, so it isn’t entirely inconceivable that the fat located there somehow responds to hormone levels. Of course, in the United States, you cannot go to the doctor and get such drugs prescribed for this purpose. The bizarre reality is that it’s totally legal to go to a plastic surgeon and get your belly carved on, maybe even silicon abs installed, or silicon pectorals, etc. The government won’t stand in the way of that, even though the risks (infection, death…) are higher than for anaboic steroids (anger, cardiac issues, acne…) ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/91 "2013-10-16T11:21:30Z")
**a thin person with a very big belly** > [@Ambivalid](#): > > …ain’t really a thin person at all. But overall according to BMI they might just be a bit overweight… (not morbidly obese) The guy in the photo has fairly normal arms… [http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bad-bellies1.jpg](http://www.dumpaday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/bad-bellies1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/92 "2013-10-16T11:39:39Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > But overall according to BMI they might just be a bit overweight… (not morbidly obese) BMI is a very crude tool for measuring someone’s fitness. It’s useless for athletes, for example. If you’re worried about someone who is quite a bit overweight, none of what is being discussed in this thread really matters. She needs to eat less and exercise more - everything else is noise. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/93 "2014-01-03T18:05:22Z")
I found this thread after reading two articles advocating intermittent fasting: 1. [Does intermittent fasting work? – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/intermittent-fasting-work-article-1.1504304) 2. [Intermittent Fasting: A Healthy Choice | HuffPost Life](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrew-weil-md/fasting-health_b_1557043.html) “Humans didn’t evolve with food available at all times” was an argument from article #1. Hunter gatherers had great variability in caloric inputs as compared to modern first world citizens. I don’t know how much modern diets throw things off, but found this notion interesting. Other thread highlights from the first page are below–not necessarily directed to intermittent fasting, but approaches to healthy eating in general. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Understand one thing when you bring up this issue, there are two schools of thought and each side thinks the other just doesn’t get it. > > **The first group is the calories in vs. calories out crowd.** They believe every answer is (in-out)/3600 and if you are watching calories and still not losing weight, they accuse you of lying about how much food you’re eating, you’re too stupid to know how to count calories, or tell you to get the fork out of your mouth and go jog half a mile. This group cannot think outside the box that despite empirical evidence and scientific studies that there are other issues in weight control in addition to the magic formula. > > **The other group goes to the other side and talks about how weight gain is all hormonal.** Insulin resistance, cortisol, ghrelin, testosterone/estrogen balance etc. While the evidence is clear via medical studies that these hormones do play a factor in weight gain/loss (to which the above group put their fingers in there ears and say “Nuh-uh.”), there’s no magic metabolism booster you can buy of the TV at 1am in the morning that enables you to lose weight while sitting on your couch eating your Big Mac super-sized meal. At best hormones influence weight gain/loss but you still need to eat sensibly and do some exercise beyond pressing remote buttons. Calories in vs. calories out is basic science. But different people may absorb calories differently: > [@dracoi](#): > > It is simply physically impossible to gain weight unless you have consumed the calories to produce the weight gain. > > Hormones can play key roles in total appetite, food preferences, eating habits, basal metabolism, activity levels, etc. These things might mean that 1500 calories is enough for me to lose weight, but enough for you to gain weight > > We even know that gut bacteria play a role in calorie absorption. That might mean that a hamburger is only 800 calories to me, but 900 to you. > > But, in the end, (in-out)/3600 is what matters unless you turn green and start photosynthesizing. Hari Seldon agrees, and adds a story about how he lost weight, partly through a prescription drug (anti-diabetic) that inhibits glucose release. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Let me speak as someone 85 lb below his maximum weight (and I’ve been there for two years, with no uptick). First, there is no question about the calories in less calories out. It is called conservation of mass. You are certainly in control of the calories in. But the calories out is more mysterious. The claim that you store carbohydrates more easily than fats or proteins is one claim. Insulin is what turns carbs into fat. I suspect that it may be true, at least in part. When I started taking metformin, which inhibits the release of glucose by the liver, I lost 20 lb in the following year without any attempt at dieting. Then I stalled, at that point about 40 lb below max weight. > > Then I adopted a strategy of not eating between meals (which I was doing a lot of) and, over a 2 1/2 year period lost a further 45 lb, which is where I am now. I have lost no weight in the past year and am not especially anxious to, although I am still technically overweight (BMI = 27). So for me, at least, lots of small meals don’t work. But they might for you. > > I tried asking why I lost weight on metformin (which I still take, although my blood glucose and A1G are well within normal limits now) and the only answer I got was that I must somehow be excreting some of what I was eating. Well, yes, that or metabolizing it. How can I know? So the calories out is not clear. Incidentally, my exercise level is, if anything, a bit lower than it used to be. I used to walk a minimum of three miles a day. Every day. Now I skip it one or two days a week, most weeks. A quote from WebMD about burning visceral fat (under your skin; around your organs and belly) vs. superficial fat. > [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > This is from what I would consider a reliable source, WebMD, quoting an expert in the field: > > > [@](#): > > > > So when you lose weight, what kind or kinds of fat do you shed? “You’re losing white fat,” Fried tells WebMD. “People tend to lose evenly all over.” > > > > The results change a bit, however, if you add workouts to your calorie reduction, she says. **“If you exercise plus diet you will tend to lose slightly more visceral fat from your belly.”** > > > > “We’re at an exciting point in science,” says Whitmer, echoing the input from other scientists in the field. > > (bolding mine) > > [Body Fat Types (Brown, White, Visceral) and Locations (Belly, Butt, and More)](http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-truth-about-fat?page=3) > > The person being quoted is > > and the article was reviewed by Louise Chang, MD. In other words, you can’t spot-reduce fat on your stomach, butt, or wherever, but with exercise, you might be able to burn _slightly_ more internal fat. And finally, a very specific approach to weight loss as it worked for one poster. This approach is so narrow that I doubt anyone will want to adopt it exactly. But it works for SerafinaPekala, and many different (specific) things may work better for you too. Eating healthy is definitely not a “one size fits all” approach. > [@SerafinaPekala](#): > > The trick for me was to trigger the IGF (insulin growth factor) and hGH. Many ways to do this but fasting after 7p, exercise in short high intensity bursts (HIIT) and taking secretagogues (GIYF) did it finally for me. > > I take glutamine 2000mg po on empty stomach at bedtime for 6 months, then switch to GrowthFactor9 for 6 months. > > I dont eat eggs, gluten, sugar or sugar subs, soy, peanuts, or dairy. Its essentially the Virgin Diet and I take the protein powder drink for brek mixed with colostrum powder, greens powder and royal jelly. > > I only eat meat, veggies, quinoa and fruits and lots of water and green tea. Believe me its not that hard and its self-perpetuating once you realize how much better your body works this way. > > YMMV of course, just sharing what works for me. Lastly, a cool article on “mindful eating”, but this [is paywalled](http://www.mystatesman.com/news/lifestyles/food-cooking/relish-austin-mindful-eating-lets-you-skip-the-die/ncYCd/?icmp=statesman_internallink_textlink_apr2013_statesmanstubtomystatesman_launch) so most of you probably can’t view it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/96 "2014-01-07T13:40:43Z")
> [@raybenz1983](#): > > I think exercise is the better way any diet to loose your body weight and we can also strengthen our body with exercise. Exercise is a better way to control our weight with no expenses. As said multiple times in this thread, exercise is not nearly as effective for weight loss as controlling diet. I have found exercise essential to maintaining my weight loss, and it certainly contributes to burning calories and being fit, but you can easily defeat all the exercise in the world with a few bad eating habits. ---
**Author:** ![mumira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mumira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mumira)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/97 "2014-01-07T15:54:19Z")
those who don’t want to exercise but want want do lose fat for them I have a meal chart. by following this chart you can lose 1.5-2 kg per weak… ---
**Author:** ![mumira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mumira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mumira)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/98 "2014-01-07T16:08:11Z")
those who don’t want to exercise but want want do lose fat for them I have a meal chart. by following this chart you can lose 1.5-2 kg per weak… 1st day= just vegetables 2nd day= just fruits 3rd day= just vegetables and fruits 4th day= just on cup rice and 5 tomatoes 5th day= 3 glass milk and 8 Bananas 6th day= vegetables one cup rice 7th day= vegetables and fruits every day you must drink water more than 10 glass… you can have tea or coffee (except milk and sugar) ---
**Author:** ![mumira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mumira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mumira)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/99 "2014-01-07T16:10:30Z")
those who don’t want to exercise but want want do lose fat for them I have a meal chart. by following this chart you can lose 1.5-2 kg per weak… ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/100 "2014-01-07T16:14:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > As said multiple times in this thread, exercise is not nearly as effective for weight loss as controlling diet. I have found exercise essential to maintaining my weight loss, and it certainly contributes to burning calories and being fit, but you can easily defeat all the exercise in the world with a few bad eating habits. I read somewhere that you have to climb 20 flights of stairs to burn the equivalent of one piece of bread. Seems a helluva lot easier to skip that piece of bread to start with. Or, alternatively, skip the bread _and_ climb those stairs. I think many people tend to overestimate the number of calories burned during exercise. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/101 "2014-01-07T16:16:05Z")
> [@mumira](#): > > those who don’t want to exercise but want want do lose fat for them I have a meal chart. by following this chart you can lose 1.5-2 kg per weak… > > 1st day= just vegetables > 2nd day= just fruits > 3rd day= just vegetables and fruits > 4th day= just on cup rice and 5 tomatoes > 5th day= 3 glass milk and 8 Bananas > 6th day= vegetables one cup rice > 7th day= vegetables and fruits > > every day you must drink water more than 10 glass… you can have tea or coffee (except milk and sugar) Well, you can’t really excercise with that diet anyhow… ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576/102 "2014-01-07T19:07:27Z")
My experience with the Atkins - First time, we stuck to it religiously. I lost about a pound a day, going from 235 to 208 fairly fast. Then I slowly crept back up when I was back to my old habits. I tried a second time, couldn’t stick to it as well, did not work anywhere near as well. Either the diet is EXTREMELY sensitive to carb levels, or it works less well as you keep repeating it and your body gets used to it. Even when I was doing it properly, I never got the 1lb/day going again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starvation-mode-regular-eating-fasting-stubborn-belly-fat-loss/670576.md?page=6)