# Starving Artist Has Issues With Long Hair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775 "2009-07-12T18:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/21 "2009-07-12T19:52:55Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > All I know is we _never_ had to lock our doors in the 1950s and earlier. Now we do. That is all. Have you considered maybe it’s where you live? The lock on my door doesn’t even work and even it did no one’s seen the key in years. Never had a problem. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/22 "2009-07-12T19:55:30Z")
You know, every time I see my grandfather, he tells me that tomorrow he’s going to the Ace Hardware across the street to get some Conga Wall for the kitchen. My grandfather lives in a nursing home. Ace Hardware has been gone for thirty years. And I’d be willing to bet that no one here other than Starving Artist remembers Conga Wall. I don’t argue with him. I say, “That sounds like a good idea, Grandpa. Wanna watch Andy Griffith?” ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/23 "2009-07-12T19:58:27Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > All I know is we _never_ had to lock our doors in the 1950s and earlier. Now we do. That is all. Where I live, I still don’t have to lock my doors. I usually do, out of habit, but “need to”? No. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/24 "2009-07-12T20:01:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Why are you bothering? **Starving Artist** is hardly alone in longing for a bygone kinder, gentler, more civil America that never really existed, you know. Indeed, you a correct. He pushed me over the edge this time, is all. Plus I thought it was funny. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/25 "2009-07-12T20:15:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Another way to dishonestly argue the issues is to try to minimize or marginalize issues you don’t like to face by painting your opponent in some sort of dismissive light…in this case, age. > > But it will gain you little. The fact is that I lived for twenty years in this country the way it was before you guys fucked it all up (:D) and I know whereof I speak. I didn’t get my view of the country pre-1968 from a revisionist history book or educational system. > > I know how people acted then and I know how they act now, and then was better. My guess is if you asked a group of middle-aged and older blacks whether they felt safer and happier in those days than they do now, the answer would be yes. Liberalism, in its unthinking and eager embrace of every negative thing to come out of black culture, has contributed to a very large degree to the crime, drugs and gangland misery that has been the lot of many blacks in this country. > > But of course, Polio was a sigificant issue in those days, and cancer was a virtual death sentence. Do people think I long for a return to that also? It makes about as much sense as claiming that because I dislike what has happend to society since then I want a return to racism. You presume to speak for middle age and old blacks and decide they were safer and happier when they had far fewer opportunities. I think you should ask with a mini poll. I believe you would be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/26 "2009-07-12T20:28:11Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You presume to speak for middle age and old blacks and decide they were safer and happier when they had far fewer opportunities. I think you should ask with a mini poll. I believe you would be surprised. Where would he go to take a mini-poll of middle-aged and old Blacks? :eek: (at least, where he would be _able_ to come back and tell us) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/27 "2009-07-12T20:29:16Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > …And I hate hippies because they are douchebags. (True story, bro)… Peace on you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/28 "2009-07-12T20:36:21Z")
How many threads does he drag this crap into? And how many people do you know, **Starving Artist** , who were, “fucking in the mud?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/29 "2009-07-12T20:41:26Z")
OK, look, its about time somebody said something nice about **Starkers**. No, seriously, somebody should do that. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/30 "2009-07-12T20:42:46Z")
I don’t really agree with everything SA is saying, but I wish it were possible to talk about the good things that happened in the 40s, 50s and earlier without someone immediately, and I do truly mean immediately, bulling in with “BUT THERE WAS RACISM! BUT THERE WAS RACISM!” Anytime anyone ever even makes the slightest suggestion that some things about the “good old days” were better, someone comes in mentioning Jim Crow. I just don’t see why people act like the fact that there was Jim Crow automatically invalidates ANYTHING good about the 1950s. There _was_ less crime, there _was_ a more polite culture where people dressed better. My grandpa was a blue collar laborer and I think when he was a younger man he only owned one suit but he wore it with pride. He was proud of that suit. And while he was in the Army, when among civilians at home, he would be wearing his Class A uniform, starched and polished - not a baggy combat uniform like today’s soldiers go around everywhere in. (No disrespect at all to the soldiers - it’s not their fault that society’s standards of dress have changed so much.) But back then people cared about their appearance. Even if they were poor, they still wanted to wear their best clothes when they were out and about, and wear them with pride. There’s one thing that I like about the culture of the 40s and 50s. Okay? And it has nothing to do with Jim Crow or any of the other bad things that happened back then. OK, we get it, bad things happened back then. We shouldn’t look at those days with rose glasses. But for God’s sake, that doesn’t mean that we should automatically discount everything about American culture in the first half of the 20th century solely because there were Jim Crow laws. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/31 "2009-07-12T20:44:17Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] The real reason is that lefties of that time wanted to do away with existing standards so they could dress like scuzzbugs, do drugs, fuck in the mud at rock festivals, and still find jobs and not get shit about their long hair, clothes and drugs from the rest of society. [/QUOTE] I’ve never done any drugs, I’ve never fucked in the mud, I’ve never been to a rock festival, and I shave my head. Why don’t **Starving Artist** and I get along better? Maybe I should start wearing a tie… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/32 "2009-07-12T20:51:22Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I just don’t see why people act like the fact that there was Jim Crow automatically invalidates ANYTHING good about the 1950s. There _was_ less crime, there _was_ a more polite culture where people dressed better. There was less _reported_ crime, but there were just as many people complaining about how teenagers dressed back then as there are now. In any case, who gives a shit if people dressed better? A suit is not practical everyday wear. Does it look nice? Sure? Does it make you sweat like a high school girl at a phys ed teachers’ convention? Equally sure. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/33 "2009-07-12T20:51:48Z")
I, for one, am unsure why “fucking in the mud” is anything but awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/34 "2009-07-12T20:52:19Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > There’s one thing that I like about the culture of the 40s and 50s. Okay? And it has nothing to do with Jim Crow or any of the other bad things that happened back then. OK, we get it, bad things happened back then. We shouldn’t look at those days with rose glasses. But for God’s sake, that doesn’t mean that we should automatically discount everything about American culture in the first half of the 20th century solely because there were Jim Crow laws. We’ll acknowledge the wonders of the 1950’s as soon as Starving Artist acknowledges that today’s society isn’t, as he so civilly puts it, all fucked up now (because of liberals, of course). The point being, every society has its good and bad qualities. Things were not better then and worse now, and they’re not better now and worse then-- those are generalities so vast as to be meaningless. They’re different, and very hard to compare because of the infinite number of variables to consider and the many different points of view you’d have to take into account. Comparisons of this nature are rather pointless, don’t you think? Because it’s a subjective issue and impossible to quantify. That’s what SA fails to understand. FOR HIM, the 1950’s were better than they are now. A valid view, but not the only one. There are plenty of people who would beg to differ, and their views are also valid. Could it just be left at that, without all the railing against Jim Crow and racism, or STDs, abortion, and gangland misery? No, probably not. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/35 "2009-07-12T21:01:07Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I just don’t see why people act like the fact that there was Jim Crow automatically invalidates ANYTHING good about the 1950s. There _was_ less crime, there _was_ a more polite culture where people dressed better. Actually the notion that there was a significant difference in violent crime in the 1950’s isn’t really true. At least not with murders. > [@](#): > > Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2007 > > The following table shows the homicide rate in the United States by year, according to FBI Uniform Crime Reports. > Year Homicide > rate > 1950 4.6 > 1951 4.4 > 1952 4.6 > 1953 4.5 > 1954 4.2 > 1955 4.1 > 1956 4.1 > 1957 4.0 > 1958 4.8 > 1959 4.9 > 1960 5.1 > 1961 4.8 > 1962 4.6 > 1963 4.6 > 1964 4.9 > 1965 5.1 > 1966 5.6 > 1967 6.2 > 1968 6.9 > 1969 7.3 > 1970 7.9 > 1971 8.6 > 1972 9.0 > 1973 9.4 > 1974 9.8 > 1975 9.6 > 1976 8.8 > 1977 8.8 > 1978 9.0 > 1979 9.7 > 1980 10.2 > 1981 9.8 > 1982 9.1 > 1983 8.3 > 1984 7.9 > 1985 7.9 > 1986 8.6 > 1987 8.3 > 1988 8.4 > 1989 8.7 > 1990 9.4 > 1991 9.8 > 1992 9.3 > 1993 9.5 > 1994 9.0 > 1995 8.2 > 1996 7.4 > 1997 6.8 > 1998 6.3 > 1999 5.7 > 2000 5.5 > 2001 5.6 > 2002 5.6 > 2003 5.7 > 2004 5.5 > 2005 5.9 > 2006 6.1 > 2007 5.9 4.6 to 5.9 per 100,000 Not that big of a jump. Bit of a spike in the 80’s during the gang warfare. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/36 "2009-07-12T21:02:45Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > And I’d be willing to bet that no one here other than Starving Artist remembers Conga Wall. What’s Conga Wall? I googled, but didn’t find anything meaningful. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > there were just as many people complaining about how teenagers dressed back then as there are now. When I was a kid working at Edwards AFB I worked with a guy who had been in the Army Air Force in WWII. He said that when he was a teenager (in New York, I think) they would wear white butcher’s smocks with slogans written on them in black ink or paint. He said the older people were shocked at the way they dressed. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/37 "2009-07-12T21:04:09Z")
I’ll jab in with the oar I usually do in these threads - to claim a knowledge of how the US in its entirety was for a period of decades based on the 40-year-old memories of a single child (or, at least, young person) at the time, does not strike me as the wisest course of action. “I was there, I know what it was like”, to paraphrase, is a terrible argument normally, let alone when other people who were around then come in to disagree with you. And to further claim that people upon the opposing side are influenced by revisionist text books, biased media sources, or culturally accepted issues while doing all these things strikes me as, well, ludicrous. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/38 "2009-07-12T21:09:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What’s Conga Wall? I googled, but didn’t find anything meaningful. I think it was waterproof Sheetrock/drywall. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/39 "2009-07-12T21:15:22Z")
Lemme tell ya something, sonny. If your dame won’t let you fuck her in the mud, flip her over and fuck that broad in the _grass_. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/40 "2009-07-12T21:18:35Z")
Here’s the thing about the internet that you have to keep in mind: there are hundreds of millions of people floating around out there in the tubes. Encountering some with crazy beliefs just isn’t that interesting. Granted, if you came across someone like SA in person–at a wedding, say–he would definitely be worth an e-mail to friends. He might even be worth correcting, in between dancing and taking advantage of the full bar (and maybe some mud-fucking, who’s with me?). But on the internet? Hardly. For every SA out there, there’s four more guys who think the minimum wage is responsible for terrorism. And ten more who think the country really went to shit when we started allowing ordinary people to elect Senators. Does SA have amusingly get-off-my-lawn, evidence-free beliefs about the causes and incidence of social ills? Sure. But as the internet goes, the guy is downright mainstream. Not worth a pitting each time he growls about the long-hairs or how women are working too much or whatever the golden age rant du jour is. And frankly, he seems sort of nice in a grumpy old man, Walter Mathau sort of way, or at least good-spirited. So I say more power to you, SA. Tell them dirty hippies how they ruined America. And if I see you at a wedding with an open bar, the cocktails are on me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775.md?page=3)