# Starving Artist Has Issues With Long Hair **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 12, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775 "2009-07-12T18:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/61 "2009-07-13T00:46:01Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > The concentration camps we rounded up Japanese Americans into and kept them there. Not during the 50’s but a few years prior. Worth noting that they didn’t really get compensated until 1988. ETA: Another interesting note: Pat Morita, who as Mr. Miyagi had a backstory in which he was a decorated Nisei soldier in WWII, was interned with his family when he was 10. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/62 "2009-07-13T00:49:08Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > I’ll do ya one better. I’m black, \*\*Mrs. Jolly Roger \*\*is white. I don’t think the 1950’s would have been a good time for us to be married. In a similar vein, my parents were told by the Catholic Church in the 1950s that they couldn’t get married and have my mother remain a Catholic in good standing because my father is a Jew. They broke up for 10 years, reunited and were finally married in the late 60s. To me, that’s a nice personal example of how the world improved from the decorous 50s to the free-wheeling 60s. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/63 "2009-07-13T01:26:42Z")
The idea that there was ever a “good old days” is tripe. And that comes from my 105 year old grandmother. She was one of six children, of whom three survived to have children of their own. Disease did for the others. We were having a conversation once about her childhood, and she wondered _“How did we ever keep clean?”_ Grandma thinks technology like washing machines, air conditioners, refrigerators and so on, are God’s gift to humanity. When I was a teenager Grandma told me a story, from when she was my age, of a local farmer who murdered a traveling salesman who messed with his daughter, a girl who was mildly retarded. Farmer ambushed the guy, everyone knew it, he was acquitted, and he lost his farm because the lawyer’s fees were high. Good old days my ass. When it comes to human behavior, and people messing around, Grandma said there have always been folks who preyed on others, or, in her words “Behaved badly” She, a devout Christian(although an adult convert) pointed to the messed up families portrayed in the Bible. She says the only thing she misses about “the old days” are people she knew. She doesn’t miss going to the outhouse, the Depression, or having to work her butt off just to keep house. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/64 "2009-07-13T01:49:50Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > The idea that there was ever a “good old days” is tripe. And that comes from my 105 year old grandmother. > > She was one of six children, of whom three survived to have children of their own. Disease did for the others. We were having a conversation once about her childhood, and she wondered _“How did we ever keep clean?”_ Grandma thinks technology like washing machines, air conditioners, refrigerators and so on, are God’s gift to humanity. > > When I was a teenager Grandma told me a story, from when she was my age, of a local farmer who murdered a traveling salesman who messed with his daughter, a girl who was mildly retarded. Farmer ambushed the guy, everyone knew it, he was acquitted, and he lost his farm because the lawyer’s fees were high. Good old days my ass. > > When it comes to human behavior, and people messing around, Grandma said there have always been folks who preyed on others, or, in her words “Behaved badly” She, a devout Christian(although an adult convert) pointed to the messed up families portrayed in the Bible. > > She says the only thing she misses about “the old days” are people she knew. She doesn’t miss going to the outhouse, the Depression, or having to work her butt off just to keep house. Also my Aunt D is currently the oldest member of my family. She’s really my great aunt, as she was my fgrandmother’s sister, the youngest of 13 children. While she’s in her 80’s she’s quite lucid. She has few fond memories of the 50’s. Back of the bus, random racist acts, etc. Hell, I was a kid in the 70s and I was called the N word to my face _ **by adults in public** _, and attacked on more than one occassion. So much for **SA’s** good old days. I guess he means they were good for \*him. \* ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/65 "2009-07-13T02:10:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Worth noting that they didn’t really get compensated until 1988. > > ETA: Another interesting note: Pat Morita, who as Mr. Miyagi had a backstory in which he was a decorated Nisei soldier in WWII, was interned with his family when he was 10. As was George Takei (Mr. Sulu) when he was a child. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > We’ll acknowledge the wonders of the 1950’s as soon as Starving Artist acknowledges that today’s society isn’t, as he so civilly puts it, all fucked up now (because of liberals, of course). The point being, every society has its good and bad qualities. Things were not better then and worse now, and they’re not better now and worse then-- those are generalities so vast as to be meaningless. They’re different, and very hard to compare because of the infinite number of variables to consider and the many different points of view you’d have to take into account. Comparisons of this nature are rather pointless, don’t you think? Because it’s a subjective issue and impossible to quantify. That’s what SA fails to understand. FOR HIM, the 1950’s were better than they are now. A valid view, but not the only one. There are plenty of people who would beg to differ, and their views are also valid. Could it just be left at that, without all the railing against Jim Crow and racism, or STDs, abortion, and gangland misery? No, probably not. ☹ Naw, that’s just too simple, **Rubystreak**. That and it makes far, far too much sense. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/66 "2009-07-13T02:28:00Z")
Now, can someone now tell me how creating a society in which: popular music glorifies gang and thug life, calls women bitches and ho’s, is filled with references to fucking, sucking dicks and in one case, the singer wanting to stick his “whole damn head” in some stripper’s pussy; where televsion is filled with images of sex and violence that most people don’t want their kids watching (right now, in the other room, one of Hefner’s bimbos is on TV and of course can’t speak without saying “fuck” at least once in every sentence); where criminals in their twenties and early thirties are walking the streets raping and murdering innocent people when they should long ago have been locked up for keeps; where people graduate high school unable to tell the difference between “they’re”, “there” and “their”, not to mention “your” and “you’re”; where IBM has to send its college graduated new hires to remedial reading classes so they can write an understandable memo; where gang activity and drive-by shootings have become so common they barely rate mention on the news, where people have died as a result of drug overdoses and drug-related crime in record numbers, and virtually everyone has had their home or the home of a neighbor broken into by young druggies looking for something to hock or sell; where teen promiscuity, STD’s and abortion are rampant; etc., etc. et-fucking-cetera, was necessary in order to eliminate racism? (And besides, when you look at the number of people who have been killed as a result of liberal permissiveness in regard to criminals, drugs and gangs, and the number of family members and loved ones whose lives have been ruined by them, and the number of people (and their families) who will never amount to anything because they were passed from grade to grade so as not to be made to feel bad about themselves, the pain, death and misery that people have suffered as the result of liberal permissiveness over the last fifty years, the number of those killed in racist attacks or whose lives were made miserable by racism itself, pales in comparison, I’m sure.) _Liberals mean well but do ill and then justify their ill-doing by their well-meaning._ ~ William F. Buckley ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/67 "2009-07-13T02:34:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > where televsion is filled with images of sex and violence that most people don’t want their kids watching (right now, in the other room, one of Hefner’s bimbos is on TV and of course can’t speak without saying “fuck” at least once in every sentence); Wait! This is on in _your_ house? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/68 "2009-07-13T02:35:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Now, can someone now tell me how creating a society in which: popular music glorifies gang and thug life, calls women bitches and ho’s, is filled with references to fucking, sucking dicks and in one case, the singer wanting to stick his “whole damn head” in some stripper’s pussy; where televsion is filled with images of sex and violence that most people don’t want their kids watching (right now, in the other room, one of Hefner’s bimbos is on TV and of course can’t speak without saying “fuck” at least once in every sentence); where criminals in their twenties and early thirties are walking the streets raping and murdering innocent people when they should long ago have been locked up for keeps; where people graduate high school unable to tell the difference between “they’re”, “there” and “their”, not to mention “your” and “you’re”; where IBM has to send its college graduated new hires to remedial reading classes so they can write an understandable memo; where gang activity and drive-by shootings have become so common they barely rate mention on the news, where people have died as a result of drug overdoses and drug-related crime in record numbers, and virtually everyone has had their home or the home of a neighbor broken into by young druggies looking for something to hock or sell; where teen promiscuity, STD’s and abortion are rampant; etc., etc. et-fucking-cetera, was necessary in order to eliminate racism? > > (And besides, when you look at the number of people who have been killed as a result of liberal permissiveness in regard to criminals, drugs and gangs, and the number of family members and loved ones whose lives have been ruined by them, and the number of people (and their families) who will never amount to anything because they were passed from grade to grade so as not to be made to feel bad about themselves, the pain, death and misery that people have suffered as the result of liberal permissiveness over the last fifty years, the number of those killed in racist attacks or whose lives were made miserable by racism itself, pales in comparison, I’m sure.) > > _Liberals mean well but do ill and then justify their ill-doing by their well-meaning._ ~ William F. Buckley I’ll put this as succinctly as possible. The above is entirely your opinion. You’d do well to remember that and treat it as such. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/69 "2009-07-13T02:41:17Z")
The only thing that is my opinion is the ratio of lives made miserable by racism vs. the number of lives made miserable by liberal permissiveness. And given that drug and gang related deaths attributable to that liberal permissiveness easily outnumber the number of lynchings or racially motivated killings that ever took place in the fifties, I don’t see how there is much room for debate there either. The rest of what I said is undeniable. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/70 "2009-07-13T02:42:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The only thing that is my opinion is the ratio of lives made miserable by racism vs. the number of lives made miserable by liberal permissiveness. And given that drug and gang related deaths attributable to that liberal permissiveness easily outnumber the number of lynchings or racially motivated killings that ever took place in the fifties, I don’t see how there is much room for debate there either. > > The rest of what I said is undeniable. Define “liberal permissiveness,” and link it to all of the crimes that you’ve listed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/71 "2009-07-13T02:43:26Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The only thing that is my opinion is . . . If you don’t mind my asking, SA, did you go to college? If so, what did you study? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/72 "2009-07-13T02:46:54Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Define “liberal permissiveness,” and link it to all of the crimes that you’ve listed. Why, that’s simple. Anything liberals do is liberal permissiveness. Also, notice that **SA** has backed off of his asinine argument that conservatives supported civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/73 "2009-07-13T02:58:43Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > If you don’t mind my asking, SA, did you go to college? If so, what did you study? Fool!!! Don’t you know that colleges are a hotbed of liberal activists!!! (But if I’d have to guess, Kent State…only he wasn’t there to study) ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/74 "2009-07-13T03:04:30Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Define “liberal permissiveness,” and link it to all of the crimes that you’ve listed. Seriously, give it up. You know that this will accomplish nothing, and you’ve already admitted in another thread that responding to him in any way is a waste of your time. Go do something productive, like empty the ocean out with a teaspoon. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/75 "2009-07-13T03:04:33Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Define “liberal permissiveness,” and link it to all of the crimes that you’ve listed. :rolleyes: > [@Richard Parker](#): > > If you don’t mind my asking, SA, did you go to college? If so, what did you study? Sorry, but I must respectfully decline. I have only really divulged on one item of personal information here - my age - and you can see how well that’s profited me. Prior to that revelation everyone merely thought I was a right-wing nutjob…now everyone tries to dismiss me me as a cranky old man, despite the fact that I’ve held the same conservative views and philosophy since becoming politically aware in my teens. I’m afraid too many people here lack the intellectual honesty to engage solely on the issues if they have some sort of personal information to draw on which which to try to deflect arguments they don’t like. > [@Captain Carrot](#): > > Also, notice that SA has backed off of his asinine argument that conservatives supported civil rights. He has done no such thing. When I talk about conservatives supporting civil rights, I’m talking about the millions upon millions of conservatives who lived in (and do live in) this country who see the basic inhumanity and injustice involved in racism and who favor its abolishment. Your ilk chooses to focus on the few hundred or thousand who were racist (many of whom were Democrats) and then paint all the rest with the same brush. If the country’s conservatives were anywhere near as bigoted and resistant to civil rights, they’d have dug in their heels and the movement would have gone nowhere. Civil rights legislation and civil rights demonstrations worked only because it made the country at large, conservative, liberal and unaffiliated, aware of just how injust and unfair was the way black people were being forced to live in this country. In my estimation, there were just as many conservatives around the country who came to abhor racism as there were liberals. And again, the counter-culture movement, which is in very large part responsible for the way life in this country is now, had virtually nothing to do with civil rights. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/76 "2009-07-13T03:05:17Z")
Maybe the reason so many people have an idealized view of the American 50’s is because it was in fact ideal. Not ideal because of progress, or civil rights, but because we were _ **fucking rich.** _ And I do not mean “rich”, I mean _ **"fucking rich".** _ I don’t mean “we’ve got a pool”-rich. I mean “we own the water”-rich. I don’t mean “let them eat cake\*”-rich. I mean “let them eat the Spam they bought from us with money we loaned to them with interest”-rich. That’s right, _ **that** _ fucking rich. And when you’re _ **that** _ fucking rich, you don’t need to lock your doors, because your neighbors are also _ **that** _ fucking rich. And as we all know, rich people don’t steal, they have accountants and lawyers for that. I probably don’t need to tell you guys this, but as a loose and general rule, more money means less crime. It also means less civil unrest. And when the pie is big enough, everyone gets a piece, which they will of course remember fondly. After all, who doesn’t like pie? But, in the end, this whole argument is pointless. The game is already over. You lost, **SA**. The only thing to do now is show us the sterling quality of your 50’s era character, by graciously admitting defeat. By the way, I too have a problem with my long hair. Women just won’t stop touching and caressing it. Poor, poor, pitiful me. \*a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/77 "2009-07-13T03:09:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And again, the counter-culture movement, which is in very large part responsible for the way life in this country is now, had virtually nothing to do with civil rights. Which is totally interchangeable with liberalism in your mind. Well thought out! Listen, folks: SA is monomaniacal on this subject. It’s a derangement with him. We’re never going to convince him to think about this any other way. Let him wallow in his ignorance and delusion. Or, poke him with sticks and watch him dance if it amuses you, but never think for a minute that he will ever alter his views. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/78 "2009-07-13T03:14:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’ve held the same conservative views and philosophy since becoming politically aware in my teens. You didn’t become politically aware. You picked a side and decided that furthermore you wouldn’t think about things and instead jerk knee in defense of your side without a thought crossing your empty, mean-spirited head. Also, you’re a liar. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/79 "2009-07-13T03:15:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Prior to that revelation everyone merely thought I was a right-wing nutjob…now everyone tries to dismiss me me as a cranky old man And you see that as a _ **down** _grade? You poor thing. > [@](#): > > despite the fact that I’ve held the same conservative views and philosophy since becoming politically aware in my teens. You poor, _ **poor** _ thing… > [@](#): > > And again, the counter-culture movement, which is in very large part responsible for the way life in this country is now Context, please. What are the other parts that are less significantly responsible? And how is life in this country now, in your eyes? Better than it is in places that never had a counter-culture? Which places would those be? And so on… You’ve made a revolutionary argument here, _ **SA** _. And by revolutionary I mean “circular”. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775/80 "2009-07-13T03:18:41Z")
Was it Socrates who famously complained about the hair and clothes and decaying morals of today’s youth? I’ve always loved that, but I don’t recall his exact wording. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-has-issues-with-long-hair/502775.md?page=5)