# Starving Artist: Totally Insane? Or Just Almost? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678 "2008-10-13T05:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/381 "2008-10-20T03:43:22Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Either I’m completely wrong in my assessment of **Gyrate** ’s intention, or he/she and I share a sense of humor that many people don’t seem to get. > > Here’s the original quote:Let me paraphrase that quote in a way that **Gyrate** ’s post might make more sense. > Wouldn’t a QFT be fitting in that case? Aha! You need to follow me around and translate. I’ll pay big money. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/382 "2008-10-20T03:43:57Z")
Ah! So its a serving of _haute snark_? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/383 "2008-10-20T03:55:09Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Cite? > > Also, I’d love your response to the evidence that conservatives used funding from the drug trade they promoted to fund the Contras. Well, then it was okay-because see, that was to beat the Commies. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/384 "2008-10-20T03:58:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, then it was okay-because see, that was to beat the Commies. Then take credit for your fantastic entrepreneurial venture there, conservatives! Degrading the African American community AND fighting Communism-- that’s multitasking at its best. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/385 "2008-10-20T06:53:05Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > This thread, having taken a turn to the surreal, probably won’t last too much longer (though it will be referenced for eternity), but I just had to make sure that you, Yookeroo, and perhaps silent lurkers out there, know that my post was a whoosh and, yes, a jab at **Starving Polecat**. I’m not, last I checked, totally or just almost insane. I knew. I was just piggybacking on your post to support what you said. As 'luci quoted: “Get your foot off my Grandmother’s neck! NOW, Godamnit, not one toe at a time!” is the right response to civil rights abuses, civility be damned. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/386 "2008-10-20T08:07:25Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I knew. I was just piggybacking on your post to support what you said. As 'luci quoted: “Get your foot off my Grandmother’s neck! NOW, Godamnit, not one toe at a time!” is the right response to civil rights abuses, civility be damned. _YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES!!! THE ONE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER! I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU’VE BEEN TAUGHT, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS!_ Ahem…pardon. Actually, leftie incivility began when the huge baby-boom generation embraced long hair and dippy clothes and ridiculous modes of behavior and found themselves at odds with the rest of the country. It soon became obvious that the only way that drugs, a careless, crappy appearance, and the freedom to do define what was right by what they wanted rather than by what common sense would dictate would become allowable, was to throw out societal norms as they existed at that time and create a new society altogether. “The Establishment” was polite, so fuck politeness! “The Establishment” had manners, so fuck manners! “The Establishment” liked to dress up, so fuck dressing up! “The Establishment” was against promiscuity, so fuck like bunnies! “The Establishment” was against drug use, so embrace drugs like manna from heaven. Etc., etc., ad infinitum, and you very predictably get to where we are today. This meme that crassness and vulgarity was necessary to end racism is simply a dodge. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/387 "2008-10-20T08:23:47Z")
A challenge to **SA:** > [@](#): > > _This meme that crassness and vulgarity was necessary to end racism is simply a dodge._ Find a single “liberal” poster in this thread who has argued that “crassness and vulgarity was necessary to end racism”. I fear you are responding to voices in your own head. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/388 "2008-10-20T08:27:35Z")
**SA** , \*\*tomndebb \*\*had a very good post responding to a lot of the arguments you are making. Are you going to try to respond to him, or should we just take it as an article of faith that you are right and he is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/389 "2008-10-20T08:35:51Z")
> [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > It does seem a mystery, at first, but I think Bob Altemeyer pegs it. [Silly hypothetical classroom bullshit follows.] > [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > B]SA\*\* displays all the characteristics of a classic, High Right-Wing Authoritarian. Absolutely. It’s something I do to dawdle the time away. **SA** , taken on his own, is definitely not worth worrying about; the only real problem is that high RWAs make up between 20 and 25% of the population in the US – a very large voting block that, as we have seen, can have a devastating effect on the course of US history. And yet I’m a guy who doesn’t like to kill anything and even captures insects in the house and sets 'em free outside. Who’da thunk it, huh? So much for your silly little hypothesis. And on preview: > [@Mr.Svinlesha](#): > > Find a single “liberal” poster in this thread who has argued that “crassness and vulgarity was necessary to end racism”. Why limit it to this thread? I’m talking about society as a whole and this board as a whole. I’ve heard it argued over and over around here that civility had to go in order to eliminate racism, and you either damn well know it or you spend a lot less time around here than I would think. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/390 "2008-10-20T08:40:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > “The Establishment” was polite, so fuck politeness! “The Establishment” had manners, so fuck manners! “The Establishment” liked to dress up, so fuck dressing up! “The Establishment” was against promiscuity, so fuck like bunnies! “The Establishment” was against drug use, so embrace drugs like manna from heaven. I had a girlfriend like you once. Her default assumption was that my motivation was the effect of my actions upon her. It doesn’t seem good manners to be so self centred, but what would I know. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/391 "2008-10-20T08:41:37Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > B]SA\*\*, \*\*tomndebb \*\*had a very good post responding to a lot of the arguments you are making. Are you going to try to respond to him Depends on whether or not I find the time. **tomndebb** is fond of episodic posts that require considerable time to answer, and given that they are usually full of things I take issue with, answering them puts quite a strain on time allocation and my ability to respond to other posters. As a result, I often have to just let 'em slide by, even if it creates the impression I have no response. > [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > …or should we just take it as an article of faith that you are right and he is wrong? That would be ideal. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/392 "2008-10-20T08:50:51Z")
And now, I have a busy day tomorrow so I must bid you adieu. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/393 "2008-10-20T09:05:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Actually, leftie incivility began when the huge baby-boom generation embraced long hair and dippy clothes and ridiculous modes of behavior and found themselves at odds with the rest of the country. Ri-i-i-ight. It could not possibly have been that having faced extremely hateful behaviors from the Right for the simple act of failing to get a timely haircut or mentioning that blacks should be permitted to vote or buy nice houses, that the boomers simply responded in kind. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It soon became obvious that the only way that drugs, a careless, crappy appearance, and the freedom to do define what was right by what they wanted rather than by what common sense would dictate would become allowable, was to throw out societal norms as they existed at that time and create a new society altogether. Common sense: the sum total of one’s prejudices. Mods and Rockers, (or frats and grease), for example, could never be legitimately accused of having a careless appearance. Hippies, against whom the charge of “careless” dress might have been laid, were always a fringe element and were pretty much apolitical. Yet all those kids were subject to arbitrary punishment or harrassment at one time or another. So it seems to come back to being punished for nothing more than being different. That was a good example of “manners” that you wanted them to emulate. In my memory, a very large number of the people who threw out “manners” were people who had been subjected to arbitrary slights and punishments for the horrendous crime of not looking the same as some other people. I came into this thread thinking that you simply suffered a sense of loss regarding some aspects of your memories of childhood, and had created a set of villains against whom you could rail at that loss, supported by more than a bit of confirmation bias and faulty memories from forty years ago. However, you are now just flinging stuff against the wall and hoping it will stick. You are making up a history that you would never be able to demonstrate with actual references to actual events in a coherent timeline (which might be why you have avoided actually providing any historical support for your odd claims). Since you appear to be more interested in simply having a shouting contest with others on the board, I will stop trying to interject any historical or factual references into this “discussion.” Have fun (as I am sure you are having) and I will now get off your lawn. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/394 "2008-10-20T09:08:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > _YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES!!! THE ONE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OTHER! I DON’T CARE WHAT YOU’VE BEEN TAUGHT, GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULLS!_ Why are you such a liberal SA? Such vulgarity and incivility. Are you sure you’re not a commie? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/395 "2008-10-20T10:04:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are making up a history that you would never be able to demonstrate with actual references to actual events in a coherent timeline … I should have known better than to check back in to this thread. But, seeing as how I have, I’ll respond to this. Events, schmevents! I’m not talking about events, I’m talking about millions of people as they go about their daily business. As you probably well know, I’m rather contemptuous of the notion so prevalent around here that if some historical ‘cite’ doesn’t exist to prove it, a point has no validity. I know perfectly well what life was like back then as I had already reached adulthood by the time all that hooey started. I can tell you, based on wide experience with people from many parts of the country, that crappy (IMO) clothes, smoking dope, listening to psychedelic music, and immersing oneself in the sex, drugs and rock-and-roll lifestyle played a many thousand times greater role in most everyone’s life than did agonizing over the plight of blacks. And further, yeah, pressure would be put on people to get a haircut…but it was hardly “extremely hateful”. Disdainful teasing (or flat-out orders from parents) were what usually took place, and as you can tell from photos of the era, these weren’t very successful. The notion you have that lefties of that era encountered ‘extremely hateful’ reactions to their long hair and made civil rights and the plight of blacks a major focus in their daily lives merely proves that you are the one who lacks the true perspective on that era, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/396 "2008-10-20T10:19:41Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > Why are you such a liberal SA? Such vulgarity and incivility. Are you sure you’re not a commie? Well, you know, when in Rome and all that. (This goes out to you, too, **Carson O’Genic** , sorry to have made you feel left out. ;)) The difference between me and the average societal vulgarian these days is that I pick and choose where I indulge in it. I don’t do it in public, I don’t do it around little kids, I don’t do it around people of older generations, and I don’t do it in mixed company. In other words, I try to be polite about my crassness and vulgarity. But trying to be polite and mannerly around here (especially in the Pit) is like walking around Wal Mart in an ascot and spats. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/397 "2008-10-20T10:22:36Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Either I’m completely wrong in my assessment of **Gyrate** ’s intention, or he/she and I share a sense of humor that many people don’t seem to get. Your interpretation was spot on, and you win a cookie. Certainly when I see a post that is both predictable and dishonest I think “Hmm - that looks like something **SA** might have written.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/398 "2008-10-20T10:27:26Z")
**SA:** > [@](#): > > _[Silly hypothetical classroom bullshit follows.]_ Snort! Well, at least he’s going to be open-minded about it. > [@](#): > > \*And yet I’m a guy who doesn’t like to kill anything and even captures insects in the house and sets 'em free outside. > > Who’da thunk it, huh? So much for your silly little hypothesis.\* These two characteristics do not, in fact, contradict each other. RWAs only go apeshit over issues that frighten them. Obviously **SA** is not afraid of insects: it appears in fact that he has a higher regard for them than he does for liberals. > [@](#): > > \*Why limit it to this thread? \*Because you are in a dialog with people in this thread, and are essentially accusing _us_ of holding these views. I’m a liberal – actually far to the left of your average American liberal – and I’ve never held that view. So who does? > [@](#): > > _I’m talking about society as a whole and this board as a whole. I’ve heard it argued over and over around here that civility had to go in order to eliminate racism, and you either damn well know it or you spend a lot less time around here than I would think._ Okay. Provide a quote from any well-known, generally recognized, mainstream liberal who claims “crassness and vulgarity was [sic] necessary to end racism”. **tomndebb:** > [@](#): > > \*Since you appear to be more interested in simply having a shouting contest with others on the board, I will stop trying to interject any historical or factual references into this “discussion.” > > Have fun (as I am sure you are having) and I will now get off your lawn. \* I really admire your faith in reasoned discourse, but obviously you will never get anywhere with someone who is utterly immune to logical arguments and matters of fact. Your responses here have been, quite simply, like pearls before swine. In fact, when I think about it, **Swinish Artist** is a more appropriate name for the poster in question. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/399 "2008-10-20T10:32:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Your interpretation was spot on, and you win a cookie. > > Certainly when I see a post that is both predictable and dishonest I think “Hmm - that looks like something **SA** might have written.” I knew when I composed that that some schmuck would try to make hay out that sentence’s clumsy construction…but then I thought, nah, it’d be too easy and their motivation for doing so would be too obvious. Looks like I was wrong on both counts. You went for it anyway, and your obviousness was completely lost on that beacon of intellectual brilliance, **jsgoddess**. And now, as much fun as this all is, I really do have to call it a night. Plus, the thread is finally becoming tiresome, even for me. I think I’ve done my fair share of participating here, but enough is enough. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2008, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/400 "2008-10-20T10:36:36Z")
How surprising. **SA** retires from the field of battle once again. Note: not a single example of the accusation that liberals believe “crassness and vulgarity was [sic] necessary to end racism” is forthcoming. Par for the course, with **SA** , naturally. In his world, if he believes it to be true, that makes it true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678.md?page=21)