# Starving Artist: Totally Insane? Or Just Almost? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678 "2008-10-13T05:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/161 "2008-10-15T03:00:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What?!! How can you deny that the left—the liberal, the_progressives_—are the ones that initiated change? That was the point of my post which you seemed to have contorted into…well, something else. And I’m not sure what. That the left is responsible for most change is a non-partisan statement, because, as I said, they have initiated change both good and bad. Were not, are not, the conservatives usually the ones resistant to change? If so, where where does this force for change come from? Let’s see. You opened the post to which I responded with the statement > [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t think this is correct. I think that the left is unquestionably responsible for the majority of change—for both good and ill. Now, I had not actually made any statements regarding who had initiated changes. I simply noted that the actions of moving toward incivility arose as much from the Right as from the Left. Starting out a post by saying my statement is incorrect and then attacking a point I had not made seems to be a bit contorted, itself. My response to your post does not even deny that the initial change might have come from the Left. I simply note that once a change is initiated, it is quite possible that the force of the change and the direction of the change can be driven by reaction to the change. (And unlike you, I did not even claim that your statement was incorreect; I simply put the discussion into the context of the earlier exchange with **Starving Artist**.) So let’s review: [ul][li]I made a statement challenging a claim by **Starving Artist**.[/li][li]You posted to say that you thought my statement was incorrect, but did not actually address any error I might have made, making a different point altogether.[/li][li]I responded without contradicting the point you felt was so important, but with additional information to explain my earlier comment.[/li][li]You stormed back, demanding to know how I could say something I had not said and then complaining that I had “contorted” your statement even though I did not actually address your hijack, merely clarifying the point I had made earlier.[/ul]Go drink some camomile tea and rest your fevered brow on a cool ice pack. [/li]Come back and read our exchange after a night’s sleep and try to understand exactly what has been posted. Please do not burn any straw men in my honor and pay attention to what I have said, not what you want me to have said. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/162 "2008-10-15T03:08:01Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > There’s a laugh. The left today is motivated by a profound hatred of everything white, Western and Christian. You want to hear some real racism, honey? Go hang out with William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. It’s funny how you think William Ayers is black. Please don’t deny you thought that, because you did. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/163 "2008-10-15T03:13:19Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > The left today is motivated by a profound hatred of everything white, Western and Christian. Dude just admit it you’re a plant for some radical left wing group to make conservatives look bad. Nobody could really be as stupid as you sound. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/164 "2008-10-15T03:14:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Time and time again I’ve seen and heard conservatives accused of racism because they object to the utterly unprecedented influx of illegal Mexican immigrants into this country. And what is the reason for this conservative objection? It’s _illegal!!!_ But no, not according to the left. Predictably, they contend that conservative objection to the illegality of it is simply a mask to cover racism, just like any other conservative objection to anything involving non-whites is called racism. Well, there are a few other aspects of the situation. (I do not agree with the notion of accusing everyone who opposes illegal immigration of racism.) The reason that so many illegals come to the U.S. is that they can find work, here. They tend to find work from businesses–often dominated by individuals on the Right, from meat packers to small construction outfits. Therefore, while the leap to accusations of racism might be hasty and ultimately unsupported, it does tend to look a bit odd to see one side of the political divide both attacking and supporting the illegal immigration and, while I consider it unfortunate, i think it is understandable that some folks on the Left would see that as hypocrisy and wonder aloud if the motivation has more to do with skin color than law. (It does not help the position of those opposing the illegals to have such luminaries as Pat Buchanan and John Tanton (founder of the principle organizations promoting the curtailment of immigration and the estblishment of English as a national language) making snide comments about being overrun by brown people or making outright racist remarks. I do not think that everyone who opposes illegal immigration must be fellow traveler of those two, but I have certainly seen fewer efforts among the people opposing illegal immigration to distance themselves from or condemn their racist comments than I have seen Muslim leaders trying to distance themselves from or condemn al Qaida or Hezbollah.) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/165 "2008-10-15T03:52:27Z")
You raise good points, **Tom** …or **Debb** , I never know who I’m talking to when it comes to you two. 🙂 However, now that you mention it I can see how it might look odd to see conservatives lambasting illegal immigration while at the same time some are taking advantage of it. I suspect that many of these employers are against illegal immigration philosophically, but since not hiring them wouldn’t do anything to correct the situation, they feel they might as well go ahead and hire them and enjoy the benefits of having these generally highly dependable, hard working people working for their companies. As far as your not seeing people trying to distance themselves from racist comments made by some right-wing agitator, my guess would be that first of all they don’t have much of a platform to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/166 "2008-10-15T03:55:31Z")
At a decisive moment in the run up to an election here a few years ago there was an incident in which some Iraqi refugees attempted to get into Australia by boat. The incumbent’s strong and harsh reaction to exclude them is credited with him winning the election. It was as you can imagine a very hot button issue at the time and I spoke to many Australians about it. Many that I spoke to (and indeed debated with here) said that the issue was illegality, pure and simple. They just didn’t like the fact that these Iraqis were said to be coming here illegally. Those on the right particularly got the epithet “illegals” to stick as the standard way to describe these people. They denied any element of racism. Yet without fail, if I said: “so if these people were white folks escaping a dictatorship who turned up on our shores without going through the correct channels, you’d be OK with treating them as we are treating the Iraqis?” There was not a single person who didn’t duck the question or go silent. “Illegality” is a bullshit excuse. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/167 "2008-10-15T04:00:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You raise good points, **Tom** …or **Debb** , I never know who I’m talking to when it comes to you two. 🙂 > > However, now that you mention it I can see how it might look odd to see conservatives lambasting illegal immigration while at the same time some are taking advantage of it. > > I suspect that many of these employers are against illegal immigration philosophically, but since not hiring them wouldn’t do anything to correct the situation, they feel they might as well go ahead and hire them and enjoy the benefits of having these generally highly dependable, hard working people working for their companies. > > As far as your not seeing people trying to distance themselves from racist comments made by some right-wing agitator, my guess would be that first of all they don’t have much of a platform to do so. That had to be the most tortured rationalization I’ve ever heard on these boards that wasn’t a parody. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/168 "2008-10-15T04:03:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I suspect that many of these employers are against illegal immigration philosophically, but since not hiring them wouldn’t do anything to correct the situation, they feel they might as well go ahead and hire them and enjoy the benefits of having these generally highly dependable, hard working people working for their companies. Which is kind of like paying huge sums of money to your dealer for your drugs, while wondering why drugrunners keep flouting harsh penalties for bringing drugs into the country. If every right wing business owner (and let’s face it that’s most business owners) stopped hiring them, that _would_ do something to “correct the situation”. Why the fuck do you think they come? The reason the right is both for and against illegal immigration is that the right comprises both rednecks and business interests. The latter control the party, but they pay lip service to policies that appeal to the former. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/169 "2008-10-15T04:06:17Z")
Hardly an analogous situation. People weren’t flooding into Australia from a next-door neighbor with no end in sight. People weren’t agitating for citizenship, language laws, and taxpayer supported health care, child care, etc. There may well have been concern over whether or not at least some of the Iraqis were anti-west agitators, but not being the incumbent I wouldn’t know. I would certainly have favored giving them asylum if it could be determined that their plight was as innocent and genuine as your post implies. > [@Princhester](#): > > “Illegality” is a bullshit excuse. Thanks for proving my point. :rolleyes: ETA: Thanks **jayjay** for your comments on the preceeding page. It’s nice to know that someone picks up on my little tidbits of humor. I’ve wondered from time to time if anyone does. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/170 "2008-10-15T05:44:37Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > **Starving Artist** , surely you _must_ understand that when you proudly declare you will ignore reason, logic and inference from evidence as tools to determine what to think, in favour of sticking to your preconceptions… and when you show so little understanding of the idea that people can interpret their experiences erroneously and that’s why we need science, statistics and reasoned debate… you are basically proclaiming to everyone around you that there is no reason whatsoever for them to believe anything you say! If the sole “arguments” you have for your beliefs are ‘my experience tells me’ and ‘no one can seriously deny that’, why should anyone pay attention to you? I haven’t declared anything proudly. I’ve stated unequivocally and in no uncertain terms that since no so-called facts can possibly be presented to settle any of the numerous points that come up in these subjective discussions, and since whatever so-call facts presented can invariably be contested with facts asserting the opposite, I will not waste my time quibbling over them. I don’t do that out of a sense of pride; I do it to make my position and the reasons for it perfectly clear. It saves a lot of time, and keeps people from trying to obfuscate things with facts that ultimately prove nothing. As far as forming opinions based on personal experience, we all do it. People have neither the time nor resources to verify the veracity of every opinion they form. If someone posts something that I think has legs, and I trust their integrity as a poster, I will look at it and if I find it convincing I will accept it. But just because someone posts something that he alleges to be probative in regard to this issue or that, if I can see that it will only lead to obfuscation or misdirection, I will disregard it. People around here love to go Googling for something to support their position and come up with this or that piece of ‘evidence’ and slap it down and act as though it should settle the issue. More often than not, Googling in an effort to support the opposite can be found just as easily, so what’s the point? > [@Nancarrow](#): > > Just because reasoned argument CAN be used to come to erroneous conclusions, it neither follows that > > a) reasoned argument NECESSARILY ALWAYS comes to erroneous conclusions, nor that You’re correct; it doesn’t. And if I find someone’s argument or point persuasive, as I did with **tomndebb’s** point regarding illegal immigrants upthread, I will accept it and respond accordingly. > [@Nancarrow](#): > > b) fallacious reasoning and appeal to beliefs and _unverifiable_ personal experience, are the smart alternative. Fallacious reasoning? Ignoring reason? I don’t suppose it will come as much of a surprise to you that I disagree quite heartily with these assessments. > [@Nancarrow](#): > > Look at the board’s motto again. Are you sure you’re on the right side? Frankly, outside the Cecil page and GQ, and given the utter, utter bullshit I routinely see posted around here about conservatives that invariably go uncontested by the board’s legion of so-called ignorance-fighters, I’ve come to find that the notion that this board fights ignorance is utterly laughable. This board - and I mean this sincerely - doesn’t fight ignorance, it _promotes_ it! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/171 "2008-10-15T07:18:29Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I haven’t declared anything proudly. I’ve stated unequivocally and in no uncertain terms that since no so-called facts can possibly be presented to settle any of the numerous points that come up in these subjective discussions, and since whatever so-call facts presented can invariably be contested with facts asserting the opposite, I will not waste my time quibbling over them. > > I don’t do that out of a sense of pride; I do it to make my position and the reasons for it perfectly clear. It saves a lot of time, and keeps people from trying to obfuscate things with facts that ultimately prove nothing. The Union of Post-Structuralist Relativists would like to welcome **Starving Artist** to their ranks. It’s rare that we find a conservative willing to concede the flexibility and malleability of truth-claims, the inherent subjectivity of the historical actor, and irreducibility of the text. We have been asserting the impossibility of unitary and universalist notions of truth, evidence, and fact since the 1960s, and finally our critique of Enlightenment certitude and empiricism is paying off. _Vale_, **Starving Artist**!!! ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/172 "2008-10-15T07:26:42Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I haven’t declared anything proudly. I’ve stated unequivocally and in no uncertain terms that since no so-called facts can possibly be presented to settle any of the numerous points that come up in these subjective discussions, and since whatever so-call facts presented can invariably be contested with facts asserting the opposite, I will not waste my time quibbling over them. > > I don’t do that out of a sense of pride; I do it to make my position and the reasons for it perfectly clear. It saves a lot of time, and keeps people from trying to obfuscate things with facts that ultimately prove nothing. > > As far as forming opinions based on personal experience, we all do it. People have neither the time nor resources to verify the veracity of every opinion they form. If someone posts something that I think has legs, and I trust their integrity as a poster, I will look at it and if I find it convincing I will accept it. But just because someone posts something that he alleges to be probative in regard to this issue or that, if I can see that it will only lead to obfuscation or misdirection, I will disregard it. People around here love to go Googling for something to support their position and come up with this or that piece of ‘evidence’ and slap it down and act as though it should settle the issue. More often than not, Googling in an effort to support the opposite can be found just as easily, so what’s the point? But surely if the problem with, and reason to dismiss, statistical evidence is that it is just as easy to find stats that say exactly the opposite, then personal experience should be doubly dismissable, the number of people with differing personal experiences being considerably larger than the number of studies on a subject? That’s the problem with judging by personal experience; studies can be biased, mistaken, wrongly designed or implemented, reported wrongly, or misinterpreted. But personal experience can be all those things much more easily. I’m concerned because it seems to me it’s all too easy to seperate integrity of posters by viewpoint. Earlier in the thread you’ve used your own personal experience, and cited Mr. Moto’s, as good evidence. But you’ve also suggested that people on the left believe what they believe because of what they’ve been erroneously taught or told, suggesting that their personal experience is not to be trusted. That can be reasonable, as you’ve pointed out above; why trust what people say if they have no integrity? The problem lies in how you determine they have no integrity; it seems to me that if your view of integrity divides strongly by left/right lines, it could be that difference that leads you to understand integrity. So-and-so is clearly misled or lying, because they believe differently than I do, and they couldn’t have come to that honestly. This is of course a worst-case scenario. So if I may, i’ll ask; how do you judge whether a poster has integrity? Who on the left on this board would you consider to have it, to the extent you would be willing to trust what they say about their personal experiences? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/173 "2008-10-15T07:36:17Z")
[QUOTE=LonesomePolecat] Aw, fuck that shit, you whiny little pussy. Anti-white racism is the most ubiquitous form of racism today, and multiculturalism is one of its forms. The men who founded this country never intended it to be a beautiful multicultural rainbow, and whites in America never consented to being reduced to a minority in the country their own ancestors founded. Whites have absolutely nothing to gain from giving up their status as the dominant majority, and this “collage of immigration and world culture” is becoming dangerously more unstable with every passing decade. [/QUOTE] > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Regarding **Lonesome Polecat’s** anger, I’m going to risk raising an uproar that I don’t have time to deal with, but I think it’s something that needs to be said if we’re all going to be open and honest here. > > I may be wrong, and I hope he will correct me if so and I will apologize, but I think the burr under his saddle is illegal immigrants from Mexico. > > … > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As far as your not seeing people trying to distance themselves from racist comments made by some right-wing agitator, my guess would be that first of all they don’t have much of a platform to do so. You just had a platform. You blew it. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/174 "2008-10-15T08:10:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > People weren’t flooding into Australia from a next-door neighbor with no end in sight. People weren’t agitating for citizenship, language laws, and taxpayer supported health care, child care, etc. Ironically, if you had made this point in Australia at the time you would have been one of the very few right wing people to have been doing so, and you would have been contradicting the very way that the incumbent right wing admin was portraying the situation. And speaking of “making my point for me” if you check up thread you will find that you started this tangent off by saying that conservative objection to immigration was “illegality”. Yet you only have to touch the surface and you find suddenly it’s not about that at all. It’s suddenly about people wanting citizenship, language laws etc. I appreciate that my story about an Australian incident is not directly comparable, but what it does show (like your swift change of direction just noted) is that when it comes to immigration, the sudden deep and abiding concern for the letter of the law is usually a front for what lies underneath. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/175 "2008-10-15T08:13:21Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > I think what **tomndebb** was pointing out is that you’re ascribing political motives to changes that may not have been political at all (at least, when they first started). The left isn’t some monolithic entity in which everyone who wanted change had to become some sort of card-carrying member of before-hand. Saying that anyone who initiated social/political change in the '60s or '70s is a liberal begs the question of why anyone who initiated change before then wouldn’t be a liberal too. The Mormons in the 1820s-30s started massive social changes within their group until forced into exile in Utah weren’t liberals. The Founding Fathers changed both the entire political and social order (relatively speaking for the time) by breaking away and declaring that all (white, land-owning) men were considered political equals and entitled to a vote. Change is created by those with vision, whether considered good or bad at the time or by posterity - not just by liberals. I do think he and I were talking past each other, but I was not ascribing as much credit as I was blame. In fact, my comment was non judgmental. I only was making the point that change In modern times) starts from the left. But I appreciate you helping to shed light. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/176 "2008-10-15T08:26:14Z")
[quote=“tomndebb, post:161, topic:467678”] Let’s see. You opened the post to which I responded with the statement Now, I had not actually made any statements regarding who had initiated changes. I simply noted that the actions of moving toward incivility arose as much from the Right as from the Left. Starting out a post by saying my statement is incorrect and then attacking a point I had not made seems to be a bit contorted, itself. My response to your post does not even deny that the initial change might have come from the Left. I simply note that once a change is initiated, it is quite possible that the force of the change and the direction of the change can be driven by reaction to the change. (And unlike you, I did not even claim that your statement was incorreect; I simply put the discussion into the context of the earlier exchange with **Starving Artist**.) So let’s review: [list][li]I made a statement challenging a claim by **Starving Artist**.[/li][li]You posted to say that you thought my statement was incorrect, but did not actually address any error I might have made, making a different point altogether.[/li][/QUOTE] I thought it was clear. I very politely said I thought you were incorrect. I thought that your response sought to counter \*\*SA’s \*\*claim about change being initiated from the left. I reread your response and still get that impression. And I think the current post of yours (first bullet) admits that. [quote=“tomndebb, post:161, topic:467678”] [li]I responded without contradicting the point you felt was so important, but with additional information to explain my earlier comment.[/li][/QUOTE] You were free to contradict it. I now think, from the post by **Camus,** that you were not necessarily disagreeing with **SA** , just adding to it. Is that right? If so, my apologies for missing it. But on the other hand, you just said above that your statement was, in fact “challenging” **SA’s** claim. Hence, my confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/177 "2008-10-15T08:36:12Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > you whiny little pussy. Damn straight our white American culture is under attack! Why, you can’t even go into Applebee’s anymore without being offered a \*margarita \*or some _fajitas_! And whenever I set foot on US soil, it is only to be greeted by incessant anti-white racism. You, sir, are also so right that in this thread there is at least one whiny pussy who cries like a little bitch at the drop of a hat. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/178 "2008-10-15T10:06:13Z")
I must confess that **Lonesome Polecat** ’s outburst against multiculturalism disappointed me greatly as I hadn’t realized his views were quite so extreme. But no, alas, **LP** is turning into [these people](http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hfVYRHHSt0U). \ ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/179 "2008-10-15T15:11:38Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > et you only have to touch the surface and you find suddenly it’s not about that at all. It’s suddenly about people wanting citizenship, language laws etc. I swear if it weren’t for the fact that I know better, I’d think people like you are from Mars. _Of course_ we have a problem with their wanting citizenship, language laws and welfare. _They’re here illegally!_ What the fuck is wrong with you? P.S. - And actually, it doesn’t seem to be the illegal immigrants themselves who want all these things; they seem happy to fly under the radar and hope no one notices them. It seems to be their relatives who are here legally and white liberals (plus Democrat politicians wanting to pander to those two groups for votes) who do most of the agitating for citizenship and taxpayer-funded benefits for them. P.P.S. - **Revenant Threshold** , you bring up good points and ask questions that will take a while to answer. I’ll try to answer them later in the day when I have more time. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678/180 "2008-10-15T15:13:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > P.P.S. - **Revenant Threshold** , you bring up good points and ask questions that will take a while to answer. I’ll try to answer them later in the day when I have more time. Whatcha gonna do in the meantime? Can I tag along? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-totally-insane-or-just-almost/467678.md?page=10)