# Starving Artist - we remember you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204 "2014-12-03T04:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/221 "2014-12-05T06:55:52Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > **Starving Artist** serves best as a cautionary tale for **adaher**. If you believe your own bullshit for too long, you end up in Paper Towel Tubeland. A cautionary tale for all of us, really. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/222 "2014-12-05T10:21:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Again, it’s people like you who are holding black people back. Congratulations, I’m sure you’re proud of your courageous stance in favor of illiteracy, lack of a roll model in the home, and resentment toward rather than integration with white society. I’m sure the assembled multitude would love to hear you expound on exactly how you come to the conclusion that **elucidator** , of all people one might mention, favors illiteracy for African-Americans. Please do go on, this is fascinating. Also, “role”. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/223 "2014-12-05T10:28:20Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I can vouch for this part, at least. **SA** is a basically nice person. I’ve disagreed with him vociferously in the past and not been attacked because I did not frame my disagreement in the form of a personal attack. > > The problem is that when he goes into ‘‘aggressive, belligerent asshole’’ mode he reveals some rather distressing underlying assumptions and ideologies that many (including me) find morally problematic. > > So then he gets more hate. And retaliates with more controversial ideas, etc. It’s a vicious cycle that is more entertaining than genuinely upsetting. There are some people on this board who hold similarly morally problematic views that are filled with hate, and they scare me. **SA** is not a hateful person. > > Nor do I think he has ever said anything that suggests he is a rapist or a pedophile. Only one person in our healthy collection of rape threads said anything that would warrant such a charge, and that is **crucible** , because he described a hypothetical scenario that was obviously and unambiguously rape, and then defended it. **SA** **has demonstrated a lack of empathy and/or understanding about sex crimes** but he has never demonstrated, as far as I’ve read, a failure to identify what a sex crime is. I think he does hold attitudes that will make it more likely for those crimes to go unpunished, and that is unfortunate, but not anywhere in the same ballpark as being willing to commit said crimes. [bolding mine] Thanks. I appreciate your comments. I’ve been wanting to come back to perhaps lend a little insight into why my thinking and the things I say might seem morally troubling or lacking in empathy to you. Basically, being a person with a conservative frame of mind, I’m simply far, far less inclined to go ballistic whenever some injustice or crime is inflicted upon somebody than are my liberal counterparts. This isn’t because I don’t care about the people who’ve been victimized, nor is it because I’m an asshole. Instead it’s because I have what seems to me to be a more practical world view in which my reaction is pretty much “well, shit happens”. It isn’t that I don’t care about rape victims, or children who are sexually abused, or women’s rights or any number of other things that get people so het up around here, it’s just that I view them as part of the overall criminality that exists in the world. So when I hear people getting all cranked up over these things I honestly find myself mystified as to what’s the big deal. Let’s go ahead and take the case of rape, for example. Sure, rape is bad and traumatic. But so are also a hundred other things that can and do happen to people which are a lot worse in my opinion. A person could be shot, or stabbed, or have acid thrown in their face, or be pistol whipped, or set on fire, or raised in a home with parents who fly off the handle and hit or beat them for no reason at all as far as the child can tell, so they have to live their lives in fear they could be hit or beaten at any time for no reason at all and can never live relaxed or comfortable lives. These or any number of other crimes occur routinely and they draw not a peep from anyone around here, nor from liberal quarters in general. It’s my belief also that people suffer greater harm and psychological damage from certain non-violent life experiences too, such as those caused by becoming addicted to drugs, or being passed from one grade to the next in school without having to learn a damn thing, which results in their graduating from high school as functional illiterates unable to earn a decent living and probably condemned to live their entire lives as losers who don’t have two dimes to rub together. And then we have people who’ve been shot, tortured, robbed, raped and killed by criminals with long rap sheets who ought to be in jail, but instead are out running around the streets still in their late twenties and early thirties, committing more crimes after having been prematurely released time after time from prison terms they were sentenced to. And I think about the pain, grief and sorrow the families of their victims have to bear. Frankly, to me all these are much graver crimes and both more traumatic and painful than rape. But do we hear any liberals going ballistic whenever these crimes occur? Or when the criminals perpetrating them are prematurely released? Do we hear condemnation or public shaming of drug addicts? Do we hear word one about the psychological damage to the self-image and self-esteem of the kid who graduates college unable to read and condemned to a life of embarrassment, privation and struggle? No, we don’t. And you know why? Because they’re all the result of liberal social attitudes and liberal activism. So I’ve come to be of the mind that liberals don’t really care about people – they just care about “certain” people, and “certain” crimes, which happen to punch their buttons as being politically incorrect, while at the same time they’re directly responsible themselves for a far greater degree of harm done to what is likely a far greater number of people, and in more long-lasting ways. So yeah, rape is a terrible crime and I don’t mean to suggest it isn’t. But there are a lot of other terrible crimes going on that in my opinion shouldn’t be going on, and until the same people who’re getting so het up every time nothing more than an allegation surfaces about sexual abuse get likewise outraged and start trying to do something to alleviate the pain and suffering caused by their own activism, I’m going to have a very hard team getting as cranked up about it as they think I should. You may also be mystified as to how I can make statements implying that someone is too ugly to rape, or suggest using paper towel tubes as surrogate child anuses, but the fact is that I am an honest, what-you-see-is-what-you-get type of person, and when I jab **faithfool** over her supposed lack of sex appeal, or propose the use of a paper towel tube in order to more realistically simulate the physical difficulty a 60-year-old, 6’2" man might experience in trying to carry out copulation in some two feet off the floor, that’s _all_ I have in mind. It never even occurs to me that some dolt might think I’m saying **faithfool** is too ugly to rape, or that someone is going to think I’m recommending paper towel tubes as a substitute for child anuses. To me the notion is utterly ridiculous, and for a long time I thought the people making such claims were full of shit and dishonestly seeking out some interpretation they could use to portray me in a dishonest light. I still feel that way to a degree, but in my discussion with **Bricker** it turned out he too thought I was suggesting the tubes as stand-ins for the children, and given that I have far more respect for him than I do my adversaries here, I began to realize that perhaps their seeing it that way was genuine after all. So now I’m willing to give them at least somewhat of a pass…at least until they keep it up after I’ve offered an explanation. All if this is by way of trying to say to you that if I should say something that seems really out there, or outrageous and insensitive, the very likely explanation is that I didn’t mean it in that way to begin with. You’ve been honest and reasonable in these threads and I felt I owed you an explanation given the seeming dichotomy between what you rightfully perceive to be my nice and unhateful basic nature and the comments I sometimes make that on the surface appear to contradict that perception. Hopefully you’ll take this explanation to heart because it’s the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/224 "2014-12-05T10:34:32Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I’m sure the assembled multitude would love to hear you expound on exactly how you come to the conclusion that **elucidator** , of all people one might mention, favors illiteracy for African-Americans. Please do go on, this is fascinating. It’s not that he “favors” illiteracy, it’s that he will mock and ridicule efforts to address it, which ultimately has the same effect. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Also, “role”. I know that. It’s probably the fault of predictive text. I’ve been fighting it all night but haven’t taken the time to navigate to preferences to turn it off. But on the other hand I’ve been fairly busy tonight and have made all but the last post in haste and may have just fudged up. It’s a ‘meh’, either way. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/225 "2014-12-05T10:37:03Z")
And now I’m out for the night. Later, taters! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/226 "2014-12-05T10:41:25Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > I’ve been wanting to come back to perhaps lend a little insight into why my thinking and the things I say might seem morally troubling or lacking in empathy to you. > > _batshit insane screed snipped_ Now that’s what I’m talking about! Obviously, you put a lot of effort into that and I for one appreciate it. Also, if you ever come near someone I care about, I’m taking out a restraining order. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/227 "2014-12-05T10:45:30Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This may come as a shock to you, but there were a whole lot of things going on at the time besides racism. Totally irrelevant - one of the things you specifically said was how Black people should have just shut up and waited to be liberated, rather than get uppity (not your exact phrasing). That was part-and-parcel of your ideal 50’s, the “no uppity Blacks” bit. > [@](#): > > You should have been there. No, thanks, the 50’s was a miserable repressed shitpit of a time, with a thin veneer of politeness \*vis-à-vis \*the privileged white male. People are all polite and shit in Saudi Arabia, too, I don’t hold it up as a model for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/228 "2014-12-05T10:49:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This may come as a shock to you, but there were a whole lot of things going on at the time besides racism. You should have been there. You know you’re saying that to a guy who grew up in South Africa prior to the end of apartheid, right? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/229 "2014-12-05T10:52:12Z")
Of course you’d characterize it as batshit insane. To do otherwise you’d have to admit culpability for the damage you’ve done. It certainly hasn’t been conservatives who’ve latched onto and defended drug use and mocking attempts to combat it, or created the unbelievably ridiculous practice of passing kids from one grade to the next without learning anything (or created teachers’ unions that make it all but impossible to get rid of bad teachers), or worked so hard to get as many criminals released from prison as soon as possible that three strikes laws were created in an attempt to thwart them. Yep, that’s all on you and yours, kiddo. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/230 "2014-12-05T10:57:49Z")
Aw, you didn’t give me a chance to do the “Wait for it…” thing. Anyway, in other words you reject our reality and substitute your own. Got it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/231 "2014-12-05T11:04:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > (not your exact phrasing). Then why’d you use it, hmm? > [@MrDibble](#): > > That was part-and-parcel of your ideal 50’s. Yeah, so was effective education, a generally stable home life, a tiny percentage of people ruining their lives with drugs, the streets weren’t awash in violent convicts, etc., etc, etc. > [@MrDibble](#): > > are all polite and shit in Saudi Arabia, too, I don’t hold it up as a model for the rest of us. I’m sure it has a name for this kind of fallacious thinking, but I’m too tired at the moment to arse myself to look it up. At any rate, people can be polite (and shit :rolleyes: ) anywhere. Sharia law, etc., is not and has never been a requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/232 "2014-12-05T11:15:30Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > You know you’re saying that to a guy who grew up in South Africa prior to the end of apartheid, right? Yes, and had I been talking about South Africa rather than the United States you might have something of a point. But I wasn’t and you don’t. > [@El\_Kabong](#): > > AAnyway, in other words you reject our reality and substitute your own. Got it. Every problem I mentioned exists without question, as does blame for the ideology and activism that created it. Plausible deniability simply doesn’t exist, therefore you’re left with nothing but false mockery and false denial to try to combat it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/233 "2014-12-05T12:12:41Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Now that’s what I’m talking about! > > Obviously, you put a lot of effort into that and I for one appreciate it. > > Also, if you ever come near someone I care about, I’m taking out a restraining order. See? I can’t really imagine a real troll investing that much time in documenting their crazy stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/234 "2014-12-05T12:15:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yeah, so was effective education, a generally stable home life, a tiny percentage of people ruining their lives with drugs, the streets weren’t awash in violent convicts, etc., etc, etc. That’s not happening now either, and what small losses were made in opening up divorce laws etc were completely blow away by the gains in giving people equal rights, women and minorities better access to opportunities, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/235 "2014-12-05T12:42:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It never even occurs to me that some dolt might think I’m saying **faithfool** is too ugly to rape, So you _would_ attempt to rape her? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/236 "2014-12-05T13:42:30Z")
Ya know, he’s earned my contempt just as much as he has anybody else’s, but NOT cool, man. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/237 "2014-12-05T14:00:00Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > So you _would_ attempt to rape her? We live in the same part of the world and I share many of your opinions…but I think this was in bad taste. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/238 "2014-12-05T14:02:04Z")
OK, maybe it crossed the line. I thought Starker’s original comment about faithfool warranted the rebuff. Sorry for being offensive. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/239 "2014-12-05T14:13:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, and had I been talking about South Africa rather than the United States you might have something of a point. > > But I wasn’t and you don’t. Yeah man, the '50s never happened in South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/240 "2014-12-05T14:22:41Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why would I take your word, when I can ask actual black people who were alive then? Every one that I’ve ever spoken too does not speak well of the past in this country. According to every one of the black people I’ve spoken to about this, before the 70s, and to a lesser extent up to the 90s (and up to now, to a still lesser but significant extent), the US was not a good place for black people (including black parents) overall. Oh god, I can’t believe I am getting into this thread. But you simply have not talked to any black people who lived through the crack epidemic of the 80’s when you say this. Also you are completely ignoring the devastation caused by things such as white flight. Although I commend you on your openness to talking to other races, if what you are saying is true, you are only talking to a certain type of black person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=13)