# Starving Artist - we remember you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204 "2014-12-03T04:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/401 "2014-12-08T07:42:00Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The implication seems to be that disagreeing openly with you isn’t _enough_, I must also think you vile scum or I have some kind of feminine need to take in strays. Something. I dunno. That’s not quite it. It’s that this board has a huge problem with what they term “white knighting,” which in this case is sticking up for someone you vehemently disagree with. You don’t have to hate someone, but you are expected not to defend them unless it’s begrudgingly. And you definitely are not allowed to comment on how other people are acting. It’s the same reason I would get called out for defending people who were getting piled on. In fact, I’ve seen our names lumped together in that regard on certain other boards. The one thing you do better is that you figured out how to do it without getting people to hate you. I just basically gave up. Though part of that is because I see less of it, and often see other people doing it for me. Occasionally, I’ll do the “begrudging defense” thing, but I mostly just stay out of it. I also may have become more likely to think the person deserves it–don’t know if that’s a good thing or not. Like, I wouldn’t have chosen to defend SA, even though my only real problem with him is the rape thing. I also think his stuff about how the world was better off in the 50s was silly, but I haven’t seen that in a while. (That was him, right?) Sorry to ramble. But my point is, I think the reason people don’t like what you are doing is that they think your defense is too vigorous, and too much like covering up other person’s problems. You don’t have to hate him, but you shouldn’t like him, either. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/402 "2014-12-08T07:50:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No, social promotion (an ironic euphemism if I ever heard one) utterly destroys lives. The only thing it accomplishes is the exact opposite of what it’s ostensibly intended to do, which is salvage the student’s self-esteem. How much self-esteem do you think an adult who can’t speak properly or read road signs or fill out a job application or hold down a job paying enough to support himself or his family is going to have? It destroys lives. Rape victims can still date worthwhile people, get married, have careers, buy homes, raise kids who aren’t embarrassed that their parents are illiterate, etc., etc., etc. He. Just. Doesn’t. Get. It. And he never ever will. He’ll just keep saying that people are disagreeing with him because of his political views, or whatever. He’ll never understand this isn’t about politics. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/403 "2014-12-08T08:04:12Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > His position that civil rights should have been granted in a slower and incremental manner. This isn’t true. Nor is it true that I ever said, as you’ve claimed, that they should have been given their civil rights more slowly. Either you are just congenitally incapable of correctly parsing things you don’t want to hear, or profoundly dishonest, or a moron. Or maybe all of them. But just to set the record straight, my position is that steps should have been taken to ensure equal rights for blacks. This was largely accomplished through legislation prohibiting businesses from denying them service, renters and real estate agents from refusing to rent or sell to them, and making it illegal to discriminate on the basis of race when hiring employees. There were other steps taken to ensure equal rights also but in my opinion these were the most significant. And it is my opinion that they were enough to allow blacks to assimilate into society in any way they wished. It is also my belief that had the two races been allowed to come together in a more natural way, such as happened with every other minority group that came to America in the past and started out segregated and eventually assimilated into the rest of society, people of both races would have come together in a much more harmonious way than has been the case through forced integration, which even many blacks didn’t like. So it was never a case of “not giving them their rights”. It was a case of giving them their rights and then letting them use those rights in ways they were comfortable with rather than jamming the two races together in ways that have served only to create a new type of segregation, where most blacks don’t really want to be around white people because of the way white people walk, talk and behave with each other, and most white people don’t really want to be around black people for the way they walk, talk and behave with each other, so you have two different cultures being jammed together artificially and the end result, typically, is the opposite of what was originally intended. But apparently there’s nothing in this that **Hector the Librarian** can argue with. Otherwise I’m sure he would. Instead he chooses to mischaracterize my comments with self-invented bullshit intended to cast me in a racist light. Well, c’est la vie. It’s his standard M.O. No one with a genuine interest in the truth should pay the slightest bit of attention to anything he says. He’s a profoundly damaged individual wholly lacking in character, morals and anything remotely resembling honesty. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/404 "2014-12-08T08:10:03Z")
And now, as I said upthread I’m really in too mellow and pleasant of a mood to deal with the usual suspects and all of their bullshit tonight so I’m gonna bail for now, put on the fire, pour a little scotch and listen to some smooth jazz. Now if only I was young and hot, and Sade was young and hot and sitting in my lap, it would be a perfect evening. 😃 Ta. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/405 "2014-12-08T08:19:47Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What the hell do you think I have to regret? By sticking to the facts I almost single-handedly debunked all the ridiculous claims being made about Joe Paterno and Woody Allen and left the members of their respective lynch mobs sputtering in defeat. Which is why, even with a mod sanctioned hush on the topic, you ran away for months. I will also point out that most Dopers do not think you won. What good is a win if only you think you won? Guys, has he always been like this, where he thinks he’s won when no one else does? Because I remember being worried there was something wrong with him when this happened, and being concerned for his mental welfare. If it’s normal, then I guess he’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/406 "2014-12-08T08:38:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Which is why, even with a mod sanctioned hush on the topic, you ran away for months. > > I will also point out that most Dopers do not think you won. What good is a win if only you think you won? > > Guys, has he always been like this, where he thinks he’s won when no one else does? Because I remember being worried there was something wrong with him when this happened, and being concerned for his mental welfare. If it’s normal, then I guess he’s fine. It doesn’t cost him anything to claim victory and it feeds his idea that he’s tweaking liberal sensibilities, or something. I suspect he daren’t suggest some neutral arbiter, ask him or her to read the Paterno thread and form an opinion on who, if anyone, “won.” ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/407 "2014-12-08T08:46:10Z")
Okay I’m back, but just until the fire gets going. > [@BigT](#): > > Which is why, even with a mod sanctioned hush on the topic, you ran away for months. What?? Are you fucking nuts? Have I ever been one to run away from anything around here? :D:D:D The only reason I’m posting as much now as I am is because I’m reacting to the lynch mob mentality surrounding Bill Cosby. You’d like to think I ran away, just like the OP and various other morons around here like to think I’m ashamed of the Paterno thread and the paper towel tubes, etc., and am hoping people will forget. Well, what can I say? You’re wrong. The fact is I’d grown quite tired of various aspects of this place even a year or more before the Paterno kerfluffle and had cut way back on my postings accordingly. But the Paterno thing pissed me off and you know the rest. (You might remember in the middle of my alleged running-away period I similarly challenged the lynch mob mentality that erupted toward Woody Allen. Not very running-awayish of me, was it, since it involved quite a similar subject.) The truth is my personal circumstances have changed considerably over the last couple of years and in the last year particularly, and once all this bullshit that’s erupted because I dared suggest that Cosby’s accusers might not be telling the truth has run its course I’ll return to my practice over the last couple of years of posting only occasionally. But thanks for illustrating why I feel the need to notify people when I’m leaving for a while – there are just too many dillweeds like you on this board who are eager to try to make it look like I’m retreating. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/408 "2014-12-08T08:53:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It doesn’t cost him anything to claim victory and it feeds his idea that he’s tweaking liberal sensibilities, or something. > > I suspect he daren’t suggest some neutral arbiter, ask him or her to read the Paterno thread and form an opinion on who, if anyone, “won.” I’d be happy to have some neutral arbiter read the thread and give an honest opinion as to whether I and a few other hardy souls had succeeded in debunking all the ridiculous claims being made about Joe Paterno’s alleged pedophilic behavior, or that he and Penn State’s admins were a cabal of like-minded pedophiles fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and engaging in it themselves, or that he knew in intimate detail what Sandusky was doing and covered it up to protect his football program. Debunking all that bullshit and leaving you people whinging that “he should have done more” and insisting on making a huge issue of the non-issue of whether I’d proven anything with the paper towel tube experiment is why I won the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/409 "2014-12-08T08:54:59Z")
And now I’m out for the rest of the night. Chow! 😉 1…2… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/410 "2014-12-08T08:59:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’d be happy to have some neutral arbiter read the thread and give an honest opinion as to whether I and a few other hardy souls had succeeded in debunking all the ridiculous claims being made about Joe Paterno’s alleged pedophilic behavior, or that he and Penn State’s admins were a cabal of like-minded pedophiles fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and engaging in it themselves, or that he knew in intimate detail what Sandusky was doing and covered it up to protect his football program. > > Debunking all that bullshit and leaving you people whinging that “he should have done more” and insisting on making a huge issue of the non-issue of whether I’d proven anything with the paper towel tube experiment is why I won the thread. Well, your declaration of victory is self-serving, hence the suggestion of a neutral party. I suppose I could nominate myself - before the scandal, I had no idea who Paterno was - but I’m open to suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/411 "2014-12-08T12:09:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And no, I never claimed to prove standing anal rape of a juvenile was impossible. I claimed it wasn’t possible for the 60-year-old, 6’2" Jerry Sandusky to achieve it while in the position described by Mike McQueary. This claim is complete bullshit. It’s well within the realm of possibility, as can be proved by 5 minutes of searching on the internet (for partners of the same relative height). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/412 "2014-12-08T12:12:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > succeeded in debunking all the ridiculous claims being made about Joe Paterno’s alleged pedophilic behavior, or that he and Penn State’s admins were a cabal of like-minded pedophiles fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and engaging in it themselves, or that he knew in intimate detail what Sandusky was doing and covered it up to protect his football program. These are not the accusations against Paterno. Rather, Paterno had enough information reported to him to suspect that child-rape may have been occurring, and failed to do enough to confirm whether this was the case or not, and failed to do enough to prevent it in the future. JoePa is guilty of prioritizing legacy, reputation, and other things over ensuring no child-rape was occurring. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/413 "2014-12-08T13:49:53Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I will also point out that most Dopers do not think you won. What good is a win if only you think you won? > . I believe the number of Dopers who think he won is zero. (Excluding himself of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/414 "2014-12-08T14:39:34Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I believe the number of Dopers who think he won is zero. (Excluding himself of course.) I once tried reading that thread. Once. I can’t say any of the participants stand out as having written their names in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/415 "2014-12-08T14:51:56Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > These are not the accusations against Paterno. Rather, Paterno had enough information reported to him to suspect that child-rape may have been occurring, and failed to do enough to confirm whether this was the case or not, and failed to do enough to prevent it in the future. JoePa is guilty of prioritizing legacy, reputation, and other things over ensuring no child-rape was occurring. That’s my recollection too, and **S A** habitual assertion that some significant number of posters here were making “ridiculous claims being made about Joe Paterno’s alleged pedophilic behavior, or that he and Penn State’s admins were a cabal of like-minded pedophiles fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and engaging in it themselves, or that he knew in intimate detail what Sandusky was doing and covered it up to protect his football program.” is patently false. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/416 "2014-12-08T14:54:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This claim is complete bullshit. It’s well within the realm of possibility, as can be proved by 5 minutes of searching on the internet (for partners of the same relative height). Another poster here confirmed from (highly unfortunate) personal experience that this was possible, and yet **S A** continues to handwave it away. More dishonesty on his part. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/417 "2014-12-08T15:00:42Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > That’s my recollection too, and **S A** habitual assertion that some significant number of posters here were making “ridiculous claims being made about Joe Paterno’s alleged pedophilic behavior, or that he and Penn State’s admins were a cabal of like-minded pedophiles fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and engaging in it themselves, or that he knew in intimate detail what Sandusky was doing and covered it up to protect his football program.” is patently false. It’s certainly not “patently” false, if false at all. There were quite a few posters in that thread who held very strong views on the story in spite of being unable to distinguish between Paterno and Sandusky, and/or between the 1998 incident (which was reported to police) and the 2002 incident (which was not), not to mention other details. How many there were and what percentage of the thread they comprised is a tougher question, but they were very much a part of that thread. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/418 "2014-12-08T15:05:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s certainly not “patently” false, if false at all. > > There were quite a few posters in that thread who held very strong views on the story in spite of being unable to distinguish between Paterno and Sandusky, and/or between the 1998 incident (which was reported to police) and the 2002 incident (which was not), not to mention other details. > > How many there were and what percentage of the thread they comprised is a tougher question, but they were very much a part of that thread. I don’t think they were a particularly significant part of that very, very long thread. **SA** chooses to focus on those sorts of sideshow accusations rather than the ones against Paterno that were a much, much larger part of that thread – chiefly that Paterno had enough knowledge to reasonably suspect Sandusky was engaging in inappropriate behavior, and failed to do enough to confirm this and prevent future inappropriate stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/419 "2014-12-08T15:08:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s certainly not “patently” false, if false at all. > > There were quite a few posters in that thread who held very strong views on the story in spite of being unable to distinguish between Paterno and Sandusky, and/or between the 1998 incident (which was reported to police) and the 2002 incident (which was not), not to mention other details. > > How many there were and what percentage of the thread they comprised is a tougher question, but they were very much a part of that thread. How did what you just wrote relate to the quote? The quoted characterization exceeds hyperbole and lands square in SAs typical bullshit. Besides which, he did not achieve infamy for pointing out the issues you name. He did so for his claims to having proven the alleged shower rape was physically impossible, his thoughts on the typicality of shower hugs between men and boys, his thought experiments involving lining up 100 ten year old boys and asking them about anal sex, and of course the pinnacle, his incontrovertible paper towel tube demonstration. Yeah, he was a real winner there. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/420 "2014-12-08T15:31:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It’s certainly not “patently” false, if false at all. > > There were quite a few posters in that thread who held very strong views on the story in spite of being unable to distinguish between Paterno and Sandusky, and/or between the 1998 incident (which was reported to police) and the 2002 incident (which was not), not to mention other details. > > How many there were and what percentage of the thread they comprised is a tougher question, but they were very much a part of that thread. Feel free to support your assertion by quoting, from any point in the thread, one or more posters stating either that Paterno was himself a pedophile, or that the Penn State administrators were pedophiles themselves. More than one such example and showing (somehow) that the majority of posters to the thread agreed with such a viewpoint would be prefereable, but one will do for now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=22)