# Starving Artist - we remember you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204 "2014-12-03T04:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/541 "2014-12-17T16:38:58Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, for one thing, it was a _movie_, and therefore not all that typical of the average person’s everyday life! > > And for another, people back then could COPE with things. Women were very adept at handling pushy guys, and pushy guys by and large were not rapey guys and would stop once it became clear their advances weren’t going to be successful. > > Trust me, women are far more scared today than they ever were then. Children too. You are delusional. Women were being pressured into have sexual relationships all the time. That’s why sexual harassment laws were finally instituted. Marital rape wasn’t even a concept. The whole pervasive attitude that women were the sexual gatekeepers who had to fend off men to preserve their chastity was the norm. Delving into a woman’s background to determine it she was really raped was pro-forma. Now we actually expect men to have self control and agree that women have the right to control what happens to their own bodies. You were not a woman then and you are not a woman now. How dare presume to think you know best? Oh, right- that was the 50s, when straight white men knew what was best for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/542 "2014-12-17T16:42:35Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nonsense. I’ve said repeatedly on this board that the 50s and 60s had plenty of problems and that they look good only in comparison with the way things in this country are now. Believe it or not there are many things that define life in a country besides race and rape, and a great many of them were better during that time. Hats, for example, were much better in the '50s. Hats were so fashionable then that men even wore them to baseball games, which were also better. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/543 "2014-12-17T16:46:08Z")
Hey, SA, bring me back an egg roll when you’re done digging, will you. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/544 "2014-12-17T17:52:08Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Hey, SA, bring me back an egg roll when you’re done digging, will you. He’ll never be done. Take the Paterno thread, which he claims to have “won”. He. Will. Never. Stop. I would never want to live in the 50s, as a minority woman. I am quite certain it would be shit. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/545 "2014-12-17T18:06:26Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I would never want to live in the 50s, as a minority woman. I am quite certain it would be shit. Yeah, but if you had had the foresight to be born a white male, it would have rocked! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/546 "2014-12-17T18:15:18Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > He’ll never be done. Take the Paterno thread, which he claims to have “won”. He. Will. Never. Stop. > > I would never want to live in the 50s, as a minority woman. I am quite certain it would be shit. Nonsense. You would be much better at coping. You wouldn’t be nearly as scared as you are now. Just think of what a stronger person you would be. Damn liberals. Oddly, though, despite your enhanced coping, there would have been less that you needed to cope with, since pushy guys never got rapey. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/547 "2014-12-17T19:17:44Z")
Heh. **Starving Artist** and I have had discussions over PMs. Essentially, he’s kind of like **Bricker** - he thinks that liberals are perfectly nice, misguided, children. They/We need to be guided by a strong hand, the strong hand of the conservative. We mean well but we just don’t know any better. Daddy knows best, type of thing. It never occurs to either of them how condescending this is. And how much we fought to get away from exactly this sort of crap. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/548 "2014-12-17T19:22:09Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Trust me, women are far more scared today than they ever were then. Children too. To test this, I asked several kids whether they were more scared now than they were in the '50s, and all I got were a bunch of smart-ass responses; something about how they weren’t alive then, as if that’s an excuse for not answering a reasonable question. So there you have it, proof that discpline has gone completely by the boards since liberals took over child-rearing. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/549 "2014-12-17T19:36:03Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > He’ll never be done. Take the Paterno thread, which he claims to have “won”. He. Will. Never. Stop. In that case, we should see if we could strap some sort of power-generating dynamo to him. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/550 "2014-12-17T19:46:08Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > In that case, we should see if we could strap some sort of power-generating dynamo to him. Ooo, brilliance! Come on engineers of the Dope, make it happen! ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/551 "2014-12-17T19:49:30Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > In that case, we should see if we could strap some sort of power-generating dynamo to him. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Ooo, brilliance! Come on engineers of the Dope, make it happen! Maybe if it was cylindrical, almost tube shaped… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/552 "2014-12-17T20:14:26Z")
But where might we install such a contraption? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/553 "2014-12-17T20:18:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But where might we install such a contraption? We know clearly and demonstrably what height it must be above. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/554 "2014-12-17T21:15:28Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And for another, people back then could COPE with things. Women were very adept at handling pushy guys, and pushy guys by and large were not rapey guys and would stop once it became clear their advances weren’t going to be successful. :rolleyes: If I didn’t know better, I would have thought this was a rather feeble attempt at parody. The degree to which you are utterly full of shit is _breathtaking_. What a ignoramus you are. A pompous, deluded, sanctimonious ignoramus. Nothing you wrote has the least iota to do with reality. Can you really not see that? Are you that fucking stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/555 "2014-12-17T21:26:59Z")
No, really, people could COPE with things. It was pretty amazing. You had to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/556 "2014-12-17T21:42:12Z")
I’d say our coping with you is pretty amazing all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/557 "2014-12-17T21:42:45Z")
But why should people have to? Suffering is no virtue unto itself. There are much better ways to build strength through adversity that isn’t as unjust and damaging as sexual harassment, having to live hidden lives if you’re gay, being prevented from entering colleges or neighborhoods because of your ethnicity. Sports, high academics, normal life challenges all give people opportunities to cope with adversity that aren’t systematic injustices. I seriously doubt the people living lives of quiet desperation would probably argue that the coping was somehow worth it. That’s kind of why women, blacks and gays FOUGHT to have the system changed. You’re speaking for the people who suffered but they’re the ones who rose up because they were sick of coping and wanted to thrive, not just survive. But please, keep telling everyone how great it was and discounting the actual voices from the people who lived it and didn’t think it was so great. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/558 "2014-12-17T22:04:33Z")
Believe it or not I think you’re right. Your points are well taken and I have no quarrel with what you just said. But when I said what I did I had other types of things in mind but unfortunately I don’t have time to go into them right now. I did want to acknowledge your post though because within their scope the points you make are good ones. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/559 "2014-12-17T22:42:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think something like this has been offered before, but I want to chime in with a thought on **SA** ’s psyche: > > One main reason he so strongly defends folks like Paterno, Cosby, and others, is that his sense of self and worldview is so wrapped up in the idea that 1950s America was as nearly perfect a time and place as any in human history that any suggestion that it may have been profoundly screwed up in some ways must be rejected, no matter the evidence. His psyche just couldn’t handle the fact that, for most who weren’t white males, 1950s (and 60s, and 70s, in many ways) America was a pretty ugly place to live, and a profoundly unequal society. It just doesn’t jive in his world view that men could get away with multiple rapes, and women did not feel at all safe in reporting a rape that didn’t involve a stranger in the bushes with a knife, due to the feelings and actions of society and police at the time. > > So I think it’s very possible that he’s just constitutionally incapable of accepting anything like this. I think your on to something but I wouldn’t put it in quite such racist terms. The real thing that SA misses about the old days is respect for authority. Back in the day, kids respected their parents, they were polite, didn’t curse, and more or less did what they were told. Back then there were pillars of the community who everyone looked up to. They were elevated to this level by being recognized by their accomplishments as being good honest and hard working people. And so they deserved the respect they received. Its true that almost all of these were white men, but if they the fifties were altered so that blacks and women could achieve this degree of respect I doubt that SA would have a problem with it. Of course of course if a non-pillar were criticize a pillar, then they views were naturally discounted, after all the pillar was much more likely to be honest than un unreliable non pillar. With the sixties this started to change. The respected pillars were saying that being shipped across the world to kill Vietnamese was their moral duty. They were saying that it was better to close a school than it was to risk the moral turpitude that would ensue should blacks and whites attend school together. A little later even the ultimate pillar, the president of the united states, turned out to be nothing more than a common criminal. It was no longer easy to brush hide the flaws of those in power, it became self evident that social status was not equivalent to moral rectitude Once it was revealed that the emperors had no clothes, the whole system broke down and no one regardless of social position was above reproach. Paterno is the archetype of the old school pillar of the community, loved and respected by those around him for his public character and accomplishments. To find that this true model of the 1950’s authority system had a rotten core exemplifies everything that justified the breaking down of the old system, and so must be fought tooth and nail. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/560 "2014-12-17T22:57:03Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Believe it or not I think you’re right. Your points are well taken and I have no quarrel with what you just said. But when I said what I did I had other types of things in mind but unfortunately I don’t have time to go into them right now. I did want to acknowledge your post though because within their scope the points you make are good ones. :eek: Wait, wut? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=29)