# Starving Artist - we remember you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204 "2014-12-03T04:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/681 "2014-12-21T16:30:03Z")
Starvie, let’s try a little experiment in imagination. Your walk to the drugstore has been interrupted by a bunch of radical terrorists in a Gay Pride march. You are standing on the sidewalk loudly announcing your disgust for such impolite degeneracy when a big, RuPaulish drag queen- maybe even (Gasp) a Negro! Not wearing a necktie! runs over, grabs your ass, and plants a big sloppy wet kiss on your lips. Do you feel assaulted? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/682 "2014-12-21T16:40:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The worst possible outcome of me just sitting here in my chair (a heart attack, a meteor hits me, a chair spring impales me right in the tube-hole.) is way, way worse than someone waving their dick in my face on the subway. That doesn’t make sitting in my chair and being flashed not a dumb comparison. I really wish you’d stop making me take SA’s side about anything ever, but… it’s not a ridiculous comparison because clearly there’s a connection between rape accusations and how they are handled on the one hand; and how serious rape and sexual assault are to begin with, and how society responds to them on the other. In fact, this is a theme that runs through a lot of what SA says. The dominant liberal narrative is “X used to be a problem, so we did Y, and now the situation has changed, and X isn’t as much of a problem as it used to be”. And SA’s analysis is “X may or may not have been a problem to begin with, but doing Y was a terrible mistake, because now we’re in a situation where the excesses of Y have let to new problem Z, and oh man Z is so terrible. Oh, and Y was supported by Democrats 50 years ago, so you should never vote for Democrats now.” The problem with his argument is not that Z is somehow totally unrelated to X and Y and that he’s just making shit up (well, he may be making shit up about women’s checking accounts). It’s that he’s drastically downplaying how much of a problem X was to begin with, and hugely exaggerating how much of a problem Z is now. Furthermore, in situations where he at least acknowledges that X was a problem to begin with, his basic position is “well, we tried the liberal solution, and it had some bad/unintended consequences, therefore liberals are idiots”. When of course there’s no way to know what the conservative solution would have been, if anything, and what bad or unintended consequences IT would have had. Was the liberal attempt to “solve” racism (and again, he simplifies everything into a narrative in which all of the things were done were what the liberals wanted to do, as opposed to compromises) an absolutely flawlessly perfect success with no side effects or drawbacks of any sort? Of course not. But racism is a fucking complicated problem. Solving it is hard. Saying that a solution to a complicated and hard problem was not perfect is in not a meaningful criticism of the ideology that suggested how to solve it without a basis for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/683 "2014-12-21T16:57:53Z")
> [@Mapache](#): > > Starvie, let’s try a little experiment in imagination. Your walk to the drugstore has been interrupted by a bunch of radical terrorists in a Gay Pride march. You are standing on the sidewalk loudly announcing your disgust for such impolite degeneracy when a big, RuPaulish drag queen- maybe even (Gasp) a Negro! Not wearing a necktie! runs over, grabs your ass, and plants a big sloppy wet kiss on your lips. > Do you feel assaulted? You should know he can’t relate to that. Gays did not exist in the Fifties. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/684 "2014-12-21T17:13:35Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Just driving by to say, if this board ever implements avatars, [this one’s](http://www.marcjohns.com/blog/2009/08/delusional-paper-towel-tube.html) ready-made for **S.A.** > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Holy smokes, it’s him! I was wondering when someone would report what avatar the SDMB Greasemonkey script (that shows the avatar of the users) gave Starving Artist **automatically**. 😃 But I would had preferred this one: [![](https://i.imgur.com/M6KnZ8z.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/M6KnZ8z.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/685 "2014-12-21T19:03:34Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I really wish you’d stop making me take SA’s side about anything ever, but… it’s not a ridiculous comparison because clearly there’s a connection between rape accusations and how they are handled on the one hand; and how serious rape and sexual assault are to begin with, and how society responds to them on the other. > > In fact, this is a theme that runs through a lot of what SA says. The dominant liberal narrative is “X used to be a problem, so we did Y, and now the situation has changed, and X isn’t as much of a problem as it used to be”. And SA’s analysis is “X may or may not have been a problem to begin with, but doing Y was a terrible mistake, because now we’re in a situation where the excesses of Y have let to new problem Z, and oh man Z is so terrible. Oh, and Y was supported by Democrats 50 years ago, so you should never vote for Democrats now.” The problem with his argument is not that Z is somehow totally unrelated to X and Y and that he’s just making shit up (well, he may be making shit up about women’s checking accounts). It’s that he’s drastically downplaying how much of a problem X was to begin with, and hugely exaggerating how much of a problem Z is now. > Furthermore, in situations where he at least acknowledges that X was a problem to begin with, his basic position is “well, we tried the liberal solution, and it had some bad/unintended consequences, therefore liberals are idiots”. When of course there’s no way to know what the conservative solution would have been, if anything, and what bad or unintended consequences IT would have had. Was the liberal attempt to “solve” racism (and again, he simplifies everything into a narrative in which all of the things were done were what the liberals wanted to do, as opposed to compromises) an absolutely flawlessly perfect success with no side effects or drawbacks of any sort? Of course not. But racism is a fucking complicated problem. Solving it is hard. Saying that a solution to a complicated and hard problem was not perfect is in not a meaningful criticism of the ideology that suggested how to solve it without a basis for comparison. This is an elegant summation of one what might suppose is the world view of **SA** and the flaws inherent in the model. If that’s really all that was going on, **SA** could join in merrily in every debate on the boards. It’s not. He’s inconsistent, insofar as he forgets what he said and accuses others of making things up. He’s hostile, and takes pride in the hostility. And he brings a new level to illogical. He’s also very fixated on rape, sexual assault, and the notion that women could “cope” with things better in the old days. If you think we’re jumping on him for saying sexual assault is worse than an accusation of rape, in this thread he has stated a wide variety of things are worse than rape, including “social advancement” at school. Someone calls him on each instance, he skates around, and things quiet down, until the next ridiculous statement. I’m not sure if he never reads what he posts and then has to clean up later, or if he’s really a scattered dysfunctional mess. Distasteful is mildest word for what comes across when he posts. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/686 "2014-12-21T21:02:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I was wondering when someone would report what avatar the SDMB Greasemonkey script (that shows the avatar of the users) gave Starving Artist **automatically**. 😃 > > But I would had preferred this one: > > [Reddit, I've been looking for a high res version of the rabbit in a toilet paper roll! Anyone know the source? - Imgur](http://i.imgur.com/M6KnZ8z.jpg) He was given one already: [like it](http://i.imgur.com/tjDLX.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/687 "2014-12-21T21:33:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > He was given one already: [like it](http://i.imgur.com/tjDLX.jpg)? That **is** the one I was talking about. That is the one the script assigned to him, but I wanted to keep him guessing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/688 "2014-12-21T21:58:34Z")
Still, its kinda charming to meet someone so naive about the physics of buggery. Sweet, in a “maiden aunt” sort of way. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/689 "2014-12-21T22:13:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Still, its kinda charming to meet someone so naive about the physics of buggery. It’s not for a lack of consideration. Long, extensive, thorough, obsessive consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/690 "2014-12-21T22:58:53Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Just driving by to say, if this board ever implements avatars, [this one’s](http://www.marcjohns.com/blog/2009/08/delusional-paper-towel-tube.html) ready-made for **S.A.** I feel like this is a solid win for the pro-avatar camp. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/691 "2014-12-22T11:44:09Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I really wish you’d stop making me take SA’s side about anything ever, but… it’s not a ridiculous comparison because clearly there’s a connection between rape accusations and how they are handled on the one hand; and how serious rape and sexual assault are to begin with, and how society responds to them on the other. There’s a connection to you and me, but to him a little light groping’s not really sexual assault, so there’s no connect there. But that wasn’t my point, anyway - it’s not there’s a disconnect (I could have chosen a more rape-related analogy than sitting in my chair, it’s just what I was doing at the time) it’s that it’s possible to take the worst possible outcome of _anything_ and it’d be worse than non-rape sexual assault - but that wasn’t **SA** ’s initial point here, his point was that false accusations are just _intrinsically_ worse than assault. And that’s so much bullshit. Anyway, no-one’s holding a gun to your head to make you defend him. He can do that for himself (well, he could if he weren’t so crap at it) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/692 "2014-12-22T19:04:07Z")
> [@ddsun](#): > > If you think we’re jumping on him for saying sexual assault is worse than an accusation of rape > [@MrDibble](#): > > but that wasn’t SA’s initial point here, his point was that false accusations are just intrinsically worse than assault. Ahem…I said false accusations of rape (or more to the point, the consequences thereof) are more serious than “groping”. Which they unquestionably are. To claim otherwise is idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/693 "2014-12-22T19:18:46Z")
My post is my cite! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/694 "2014-12-22T19:39:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Ahem…I said false accusations of rape (or more to the point, the consequences thereof) are more serious than “groping”. > > Which they unquestionably are. > > To claim otherwise is idiotic. No, because you’ve failed to prove that any significant number of false accusations of rape actually result in imprisonment or other things that are worse than being groped. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/695 "2014-12-22T19:44:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, because you’ve failed to prove that any significant number of false accusations of rape actually result in imprisonment or other things that are worse than being groped. I’m sorry, but that seems a bit obtuse. It’s not necessary for someone to go to prison for them to suffer negative consequences from being falsely accused of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/696 "2014-12-22T20:04:32Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I’m sorry, but that seems a bit obtuse. It’s not necessary for someone to go to prison for them to suffer negative consequences from being falsely accused of a crime. He hasn’t shown that any significant number of false accusations of rape result in these other negative consequences of any kind that are supposedly worse than being groped. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/697 "2014-12-22T20:37:41Z")
Does groping become kind of okay if it’s not as bad as false rape accusations? Why is the comparison even relevant? Distraction complete. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/698 "2014-12-22T20:53:58Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Does groping become kind of okay if it’s not as bad as false rape accusations? > > Why is the comparison even relevant? > > Distraction complete. Ah, good point. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/699 "2014-12-22T21:16:06Z")
I’m quite disappointed. I was hoping for a proposed experiment demonstrating the un-possibility of groping the unwilling involving lingerie, mousetraps, a vacuum cleaner hose attachment, a gerbil, and rather naughty bits of the human anatomy. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/700 "2014-12-22T21:18:26Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Does groping become kind of okay if it’s not as bad as false rape accusations? This would be a fallacy, would it not? A isn’t as bad as B, therefore A is okay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204.md?page=36)