# Starving Artists thinks attempted rape is not "all that serious" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 24, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855 "2018-09-24T20:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/101 "2018-09-25T04:07:47Z")
> [@j666](#): > > Franken’s no saint, but I don’t recall that he put his hands on anybody - did I miss that? [Definitely.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Franken#Sexual_misconduct_allegations) Nobody’s accused him of anything worse than kissing and handsing, and he wasn’t ripping anybody’s clothes off or making them fear for their lives, but the kissing and handsing were blatantly non-consensual and unacceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/102 "2018-09-25T04:08:05Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > And by the way, **Starving Artist** , you may want to get in touch with a mod about your (apparently inadvertent) misuse of quote tags to misquote **Itself** in post #90. Doesn’t look like you did it on purpose, but it’s technically a moddable offense. Looks like a good thing I peeked back in. Thanks, **Kimstu** , I’ll do that. ---
**Author:** ![Itself](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d07c76/32.png) [@Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/103 "2018-09-25T04:09:24Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Like I said, I’m behaving the same way the other side does. Most of the political posters here seem every bit as much to be assholes as you perceive me to be. But, as with Bill Clinton’s contretemps, you’re attitude toward their behavior is benign because basically you’re in agreement with them. So I look like an asshole and they seem like normal, everyday, rational, good-hearted people. To those on my side you look like assholes and we’re all normal, everyday, rational, good-hearted people. > > Funny how that works, huh? I’m not a liberal, you stupid asshole. No one— _no one_— thinks that you’re normal, everyday, rational, or good-hearted. You are garbage. Everyone, regardless of their political opinion, thinks that you’re a fucking asshole. Those of us who are not liberals absolutely do not want you on our side, and the posters who actually are liberal have no interest in your bullshit. Just fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/104 "2018-09-25T04:12:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s true Franken was driven from office, but from my vantage point here on the right, he was mostly driven from office by conservatives with liberals reluctantly following along as they had no substantive way to demur. That is certainly not the way I remember it. I seem to recall it was a whole mess of Democratic senators in the end asking for him to step down. They could have done so earlier, but by early December, they were asking for his head. [Here’s a group of progressives on Nov 18 calling for his resignation.](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/18/progressives-call-replacing-al-franken-keith-ellis/) Here’s Slate columnist [Mark Joseph Stern](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/11/al_franken_should_resign_immediately.html) immediatley asking for his resignation on 11/16. [Here’s CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/opinions/liberals-dont-waste-your-time-trying-to-defend-franken-louis/index.html) running an Errol Lewis column condemning Franken. And [here’s those Democratic senators](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-list-senators-call-for-al-franken-to-resign-282175) who got around on 12/6 finally to ask him to resign. I remember my Facebook feed being full of liberals saying he should step down right when the allegations were made. This was certainly not a case of him being “mostly driven from office by conservatives.” Puh-lease. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/105 "2018-09-25T04:15:40Z")
Do you believe the level of public vituperation was the same or even close to that being hurled at Kavanaugh, a man who’s alleged offense hasn’t even been proven yet? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/106 "2018-09-25T04:16:55Z")
Because this thread isn’t about Bill Clinton – it’s about YOU. If the only way you can defend yourself is by whining about what the left does (which, quite frankly, is really all you ever do), well, it doesn’t say much about your intellectual ability. Seriously, if you can’t come up with something new, then you’ve got some issues. (Mods, can’t we just topic ban him when it comes to sexual assault or something? Please? It’s getting ridiculous) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/107 "2018-09-25T04:21:04Z")
> [@Itself](#): > > I’m not a liberal, you stupid asshole. No one— _no one_— thinks that you’re normal, everyday, rational, or good-hearted. You are garbage. Everyone, regardless of their political opinion, thinks that you’re a fucking asshole. Those of us who are not liberals absolutely do not want you on our side, and the posters who actually are liberal have no interest in your bullshit. Just fuck off. The last time I heard that kind of talk from a so-called conservative, it turned out he wasn’t really all that conservative. But that doesn’t matter. I’m not trying to win a popularity contest (although I’ll admit it would please me were certain posters here - on both sides, believe it or not - to look kindly upon me. Still, I don’t post to gain approval; I post to say what I think needs to be said. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/108 "2018-09-25T04:23:37Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Do you believe the level of public vituperation was the same or even close to that being hurled at Kavanaugh, a man who’s alleged offense hasn’t even been proven yet? Yes. Even more so, to be honest. I saw much more about Franken than I have Kavanaugh so far on my Facebook feed. It’s possible that I’m just more unplugged these days or me and my friends are more critical “of our own.” But the hubbub about Franken was huge in my circle. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/109 "2018-09-25T04:31:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I have two words to say about this hysterical, exaggerated nonsense: > > _Bill Clinton!_ > > You people have no room…and by no room, I mean ZERO room…to talk! > > This is all 100% politically motivated. Ford was not harmed. Whatever groping happened, happened over her clothes. There was no skin-on-skin contact and she was able to get away fairly easily. None of this is true of Bill Clinton if we’re to go by the same type of evidence. So where was your outraged screeching then? Hmm? So let’s pretend for a second that this is all true. And let’s say that Bill Clinton was nominated for a position on the Supreme Court. Would you say he should be disqualified based on the crime he has been accused of? Now let’s say that Brett Kavanaugh has been nominated for a position on the Supreme Court. Would you say he should be disqualified based on the crime he has been accused of? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/110 "2018-09-25T04:33:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Do you believe the level of public vituperation was the same or even close to that being hurled at Kavanaugh, a man who’s alleged offense hasn’t even been proven yet? No, because Franken resigned. Kavanaugh is fighting on and still trying to gain office. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/111 "2018-09-25T04:35:29Z")
You people do realize that if you don’t Pit and antagonize posters your blood pressure might be better off. I am surprised you folks are able to function in the real world. And this whining for topic bans or bans for being a “jerk” is sort of sad. Just ignore the dude if he is so triggering. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/112 "2018-09-25T04:37:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Because this thread isn’t about Bill Clinton – it’s about YOU. > > If the only way you can defend yourself is by whining about what the left does (which, quite frankly, is really all you ever do), well, it doesn’t say much about your intellectual ability. > > Seriously, if you can’t come up with something new, then you’ve got some issues. Trust me, you’re the last person I would think of as being competent to determine whether someone has “issues.” > [@Guinastasia](#): > > (Mods, can’t we just topic ban him when it comes to sexual assault or something? Please? It’s getting ridiculous) You must have this board confused with someplace else. Here, unpopular opinions are allowed. I’m sincere in stating the things I post, I don’t break the rules, and I post on many issues besides sexual assault. You may try, to whatever degree you can, to turn this place into another echo chamber like the one you’re used to, but so far mod and administrator integrity and the value of dissenting opinions is carrying the day. Needless to say I hope it remains that way, because this place would get boring quickly without dissenting voices. Perhaps I’m dating myself (heh) but there was an episode of the _Twilight Zone_ once where a petty crook dies, and in the afterlife he lives in luxury, with all the money and women he wants and where every bet comes up a winner. Finally he gets bored and fed up with the lack of a challenge and tells his otherworldly guide that he no longer wants to live in heaven, he wants to go to the other place. The guide laughs evilly and asks what makes him think he’s in heaven. IMO, this board would become much like that ‘heaven,’ were people like you to get your way and succeed in banishing thoughts and opinions that you don’t want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/113 "2018-09-25T04:43:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, because Franken resigned. Kavanaugh is fighting on and still trying to gain office. Many weeks went by before Franken declared that he’d step down, and even more time passed before he eventually did so. During even that initial period of several weeks there was more than ample opportunity for people to twist off like they have over Kavanaugh, about whom they did so from day one of the accusation despite the fact he hasn’t been proven guilty, and despite the fact that everyone said to have been involved or to know about it to date has stated they knew nothing of it. There is simply no comparison to the public outrage aimed at Kavanaugh that there was toward Franken. Not even close. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/114 "2018-09-25T04:44:05Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Originally Posted by Starving Artist View Post > I have two words to say about this hysterical, exaggerated nonsense: > > Bill Clinton! > > You people have no room…and by no room, I mean ZERO room…to talk! > > This is all 100% politically motivated. Ford was not harmed. Whatever groping happened, happened over her clothes. There was no skin-on-skin contact and she was able to get away fairly easily. None of this is true of Bill Clinton if we’re to go by the same type of evidence. So where was your outraged screeching then? Hmm? Once again, this board proves its worth by teaching me numerous things I never knew before I opened this thread: 1) The only harm that counts in sexual assault is physical injury; 2) Groping over clothes doesn’t count as groping; 3) placing a hand over the victim’s mouth doesn’t count as “skin on skin” contact; 4) sexual assault is not considered legally significant if the victim can “get away fairly easily” (assuming that characterization is accurate, which is highly questionable at this point); and 5) in any event Kavanaugh gets a free pass because Bill Clinton. Bravo. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/115 "2018-09-25T04:46:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yes. Even more so, to be honest. I saw much more about Franken than I have Kavanaugh so far on my Facebook feed. It’s possible that I’m just more unplugged these days or me and my friends are more critical “of our own.” But the hubbub about Franken was huge in my circle. Well, seeing as how it’s you, perhaps I’m wrong. I’ll look into the Franken thing a little closer when I have time, but for now I’ll concede the issue where Franken is concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/116 "2018-09-25T05:03:22Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Many weeks went by before Franken declared that he’d step down, and even more time passed before he eventually did so. During even that initial period of several weeks […] :dubious: **Starving Artist** , you’ve been reminded twice now in this very thread that the initial accusations about Franken surfaced **last November 16** , and he declared his intention of resigning on **December 7**. That’s **three** weeks in between the very start of the scandal and Franken’s formally announcing he would leave office because of it. Not “many”. Not even “several”. Three. And public outrage was being loudly expressed at Franken every day of those three weeks. (And his actual resignation on January 2 was only about another three weeks later.) > [@Starving Artist](#): > > There is simply no comparison to the public outrage aimed at Kavanaugh that there was toward Franken. Not even close. Again, the only explanation for this statement is that you just weren’t paying attention. (And when you compare Democratic outrage about Franken to Republican silence and deflection about, say, Roy Moore, not to mention Donald Trump, it is clear that liberals aren’t the ones being most hypocritical here.) ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/117 "2018-09-25T05:14:23Z")
There were multiple Democrats calling for Franken’s resignation. There are multiple Republicans declaring no investigation is necessary or desired, and it’s the Democrats that are hypocrites? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/118 "2018-09-25T05:16:33Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Like I said, I’m behaving the same way the other side does. No; you aren’t. You are using that excuse to try and justify your own bad behavior, but it isn’t valid at all. Heck, now you’re trying to dodge personal responsibility for the things you said, another action that is contrary to stated conservative values. ---
**Author:** ![Not\_Carlson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bc79bd/32.png) [@Not\_Carlson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Not_Carlson)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/119 "2018-09-25T05:29:44Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I have two words to say about this hysterical, exaggerated nonsense: > > . . . . . . Liar. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2018, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855/120 "2018-09-25T05:30:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > This is all 100% politically motivated. Ford was not harmed. Whatever groping happened, happened over her clothes. There was no skin-on-skin contact and she was able to get away fairly easily. I don’t see political motivation, except on the Republican side. There is a rush to judgement out of a desire to get a Supreme Court Justice confirmed before the mid-terms. Rather than follow previous procedures, Republicans want to push this through. As far as this being a trivial matter, (which implies that you believe her), two older boys grabbed a 15 year old, pushed her into a room, locked the door, and turned up music so no one could hear what was going on in the room. Then one of them pushed her down with his hand over her mouth and tried to pull her clothes off. His hand covered enough of her face with enough force that she thought she was going to die. This is your definition of “groping”? This was not a minor matter. > [@](#): > > None of this is true of Bill Clinton if we’re to go by the same type of evidence. So where was your outraged screeching then? Hmm? This thread is about you. Deflection attempt. > [@](#): > > Further, impassioned, wrongheaded Democrats all over this country have striven continually to get rapists, wife-beaters and murderers,- especially if they’re from gangs, the worst source of this kind of behavior - released from prison as early as possible, if not off altogether on technicalities. And of course many of these have gone on to commit more actual rapes and more actual murders, and thereby do more actual harm. Prison reform. Deflection attention. > [@](#): > > So give me a friggin’ break with your self-righteous howling over this relatively minor incident that very well may not have actually happened. You people actually need someone like me around here to at least try to keep your feet on the ground, your heads out of the clouds, and to at least try to advance the concept of proportionality. As noted, not a minor incident, and you’ve already acknowledged that it happened. No backsies. > [@](#): > > And someone please get that overwrought, inexplicably self-impressed nitwit, **BigT** , a Kleenex! Shut up. He brings some quality to the place, like this thread for instance. You’re a net negative. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Yes, there were a few people who were angry with Franken, and good on **iiandyiiii** for his stand, but there was nowhere near the anger, venom and outrage aimed at Franken or Clinton either here on the Dope or among the public at large that there has been toward Kavanaugh, and Clinton’s misbehavior is orders of magnitude worse than what Kavanaugh is accused of. Franken. Another deflection attempt. For the record, Kavanaugh has now been accused of gang rapes. Multiple. Over a period of years. No one you’ve mentioned in your attempts to deflect is in his league. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artists-thinks-attempted-rape-is-not-all-that-serious/821855.md?page=7)