# Starving Kitten: AKA...What the Hell Is Wrong With People? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 21, 2010, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457 "2010-07-21T13:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/61 "2010-07-23T15:03:22Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > We don’t know whether it’s physical or behavioral at this point. Well, good luck figuring it out. ☹ > [@rhubarbarin](#): > > I think the attitude that the only way to solve ‘pet overpopulation’ is for all people to sterilize their adult dogs and cats is ridiculously glib. [This blog post sums up how I feel pretty well.](http://blacksheepcardigans.com/ruff/1563/spayneuter-as-close-to-the-real-story-as-i-can-get-it/) Huh, interesting. Let it never be said that I’m not open to new information–you’ve definitely given me something to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/62 "2010-07-23T17:28:54Z")
I would take that blog post more seriously if it didn’t seem to be on a website that is promoting corgis, one of the worst victims of human breeding programs for purebred dogs (in my opinion, of course). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/63 "2010-07-23T17:35:10Z")
There are plenty of humans I’d like to see have their reproductive organs removed, rather than any dog or cat’s. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/64 "2010-07-23T17:38:50Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > **rhubarbarin** , is there any reason you prefer intact males? I’d always heard that most dog bites come from unneutered males. I had mine for 13 years and he never once was aggressive to a human. If he was frustrated by having intact bollocks and not being able to use them, he never took it out on anyone or thing that I noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/65 "2010-07-23T17:48:52Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Can you come up with a reason why you should be kept alive? Because I’m human. I am therefore more important than animals. I exist outside of nature. And I don’t go around killing other humans, so you can’t kill me. Cats, on the other hand, are just biological robots. It’s perfectly cool to act calously toward them, treat them as property, and destroy them as I would a clay pot I no longer wanted. Which one of your jacked up, peanut-brained assumptions didn’t I flatly deny? Let me know and I’ll be sure to state blatantly why you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/66 "2010-07-23T17:55:19Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I had mine for 13 years and he never once was aggressive to a human. If he was frustrated by having intact bollocks and not being able to use them, he never took it out on anyone or thing that I noticed. Yes, but that’s just one dog. I’m talking about actual studies. [Here’s one cite:](http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/whybite.html#otherreasons) > [@](#): > > Male dogs are more aggressive than females, and most of the aggression is by intact males. Male dogs accounted for 70% - 87% of the attacks studied, and 60% were unneutered males. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/67 "2010-07-23T18:09:51Z")
Any statistics on the kind of owners they had? I’d think that would be far more relevant than whether or not they were unneutered. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/68 "2010-07-23T18:14:20Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Because I’m human. ie. A worthless piece of thinking meat that only has value to you and those who will miss you when you are gone but carry on almost as if you’d never existed. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/69 "2010-07-23T18:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > ``` > * Reaching toward a dog to pet him did not constitute contributory negligence. Ellsworth v. Elite Dry Cleaners, etc., Inc. (1954) 127 Cal.App.2d 479. > > * Playing with a dog and patting his head did not constitute assumption of the risk. Smythe v. Schacht (1949) 93 Cal.App.2d 315. > > * Feeding a dog did not constitute assumption of the risk. Burden v. Globerson (1967) 252 Cal.App.2d 468. > > ``` I don’t agree with these. Nobody should have the right to come within touching distance of my dog while it’s on its leash, without a court order, or something. My dog isn’t a communal pet. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/70 "2010-07-23T18:29:45Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Any statistics on the kind of owners they had? I’d think that would be far more relevant than whether or not they were unneutered. No, but if the study was done well, it should have been a randomized sample of dogs, so the kind of owners wouldn’t matter. I don’t think that anyone should have the right to come up and pet your dog but that your dog is probably not that well trained if it reacts by biting. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/71 "2010-07-23T18:42:22Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No, but if the study was done well, it should have been a randomized sample of dogs, so the kind of owners wouldn’t matter. I’m sure a study that was done well would realise that the occurrence of totally “random” dog-bites was so small as to be insignificant. Negligence by the owner is probably by far the biggest factor in incidents of dog attacks. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I don’t think that anyone should have the right to come up and pet your dog but that your dog is probably not that well trained if it reacts by biting. So, if an old dear feels the need for a protective dog to accompany her to the post office when she cashes her pension money, anybody should be able to walk within the circle of her leash’s limits without fear of being bitten? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/72 "2010-07-23T18:45:29Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I’m sure a study that was done well would realise that the occurrence of totally “random” dog-bites was so small as to be insignificant. Negligence by the owner is probably by far the biggest factor in incidents of dog attacks. Well I don’t know the details of that study but if all other things are equal and unneutered dogs bite, then I would think that it’s a fairly big factor. > [@](#): > > So, if an old dear feels need for a protective dog to accompany her to the post office when she cashes her pension money, anybody should be able to walk within the circle of her leash’s limits without fear of being bitten? Well, yeah. If just walking that close to a dog makes it bite, then there’s something seriously wrong and old dear needs to call in a dog whisperer. Though are those factors you listed–feeding the dog, petting it–necessarily strangers? Couldn’t they also be for friends or owners of the dog? If a dog is biting a stranger that pets it, that’s not good, but if it bites its own owner for doing that, it’s even worse. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/73 "2010-07-23T21:09:45Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Because I’m human. I am therefore more important than animals. Because you say so? OK. The cat should live because I say so. > [@](#): > > I exist outside of nature. Actually, you don’t. > [@](#): > > And I don’t go around killing other humans, so you can’t kill me. Your question was whether something should be kept alive. But thanks for playing. > [@](#): > > Cats, on the other hand, are just biological robots. It’s perfectly cool to act calously toward them, treat them as property, and destroy them as I would a clay pot I no longer wanted. Many serial killers started as animal torturers. You’re in good company. > [@](#): > > Which one of your jacked up, peanut-brained assumptions didn’t I flatly deny? Deny all you want. Denial is not refutation. You can look it up. > [@](#): > > Let me know and I’ll be sure to state blatantly why you’re an idiot. See above. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/74 "2010-07-23T21:13:01Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Okay, in what universe do dogs actually eat cats, outside of Tom and Jerry cartoons? From the way people are talking, throwing kittens to dogs to get eaten is something that happens on a regular basis. I’ve never heard of it. No, the dog probably won’t eat the cat, only tear it to shreds. Cold comfort for the cat. Using cats as bait animals is common practice in dog fighting circles, a practice that is apparently just fine with **Chessic Sense** , our resident sociopath. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/75 "2010-07-23T21:18:42Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > No, the dog probably won’t eat the cat, only tear it to shreds. Cold comfort for the cat. > > Using cats as bait animals is common practice in dog fighting circles, a practice that is apparently just fine with **Chessic Sense** , our resident sociopath. But would a dog who’s not trained for fighting react to a strange kitten by tearing it apart? It seems a strange assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/76 "2010-07-23T21:26:56Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But would a dog who’s not trained for fighting react to a strange kitten by tearing it apart? It seems a strange assumption. A dog with a strong prey drive would. My Jack Russell will kill a cat (or possum, or snake, or groundhog, etc.) in a Miami minute, although by snapping it’s neck, not by shredding it. My two other dogs could not care less about cats who are indoors, but if a stray animal gets in the back yard and the Jack goes for it, the pack mentality takes over and they all go for the kill. I didn’t want to get sidetracked, so I said “dogs” instead of “pit bulls,” which is what the asshole in the OP said. I have no idea if they were trained for fighting, but I would never risk a kitten’s life by throwing it to a pack of dogs, especially ones left to their own devices outdoors. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/77 "2010-07-23T21:28:13Z")
Yeah, fair enough. Either way I think the OP lady should probably drop it off at the shelter. At the very least, you’d think she could phone animal control and have someone pick it up if she doesn’t want to do anything. If she hates cats that much, I’d assume she’d be happy to have it gone. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/78 "2010-07-23T21:41:13Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > It’s perfectly cool to act calously toward them, treat them as property, and destroy them as I would a clay pot I no longer wanted. Yikes. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/79 "2010-07-23T23:00:31Z")
Phewie! Looks like I better not admit that if I had a house with stray animals wandering around outside of it, I would ignore the things as completely as I currently ignore the cats wandering around outside my apartment complex. Strays are simply not my problem, no matter how cute other people think they are. Er, oops. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457/80 "2010-07-23T23:15:46Z")
[QUOTE=Freudian Slit] rhubarbarin, is there any reason you prefer intact males? I’d always heard that most dog bites come from unneutered males. [/QUOTE] It’s hard to describe the personality difference. In general intact males just seem more intense. They have a masculine ‘energy’ so to speak. And they are much easier to keep slim and muscular. I’m not really interested in dog bite statistics. The information is mostly based on information the victims report which I don’t consider to be reliable (how many hysterical parents of children bitten by a strange dog know the difference between an American Pit Bull Terrier and a Rottweiler mix?), and correlation isn’t causation, etc. I only worry about what I see myself. None of my dogs have ever bitten a person. I assume they never will, but I take what I consider reasonable precautions. For instance I don’t let young kids come near my dogs, because unlike my dogs, I don’t trust the kids and know what I can expect from them. I’ve had kids run up to my leashed dogs and smack them in the face before… it’s my job to protect my dogs from all the dumb things people do, plenty of which deserve a swift bite. IME the main factor in dog bites is the owner. Every single dog is capable of tooth contact with a human in the right circumstances, although I’ve met a few where I’m pretty certain you would have to start sawing their leg off before they would. Furthermore a snap, a hard sideways blow with their teeth, a light bite that bruises, a deep bite that draws blood, or tearing your leg half off- are all distinct and separate ways the dog is communicating with you (from ‘knock it off before I actually smack you with my teeth’ to ‘DIE!!!’) and the dog doing whatever it is means to do just that (unless you’re getting in between him and someone else he’s trying to do it to). The dog who snapped at you lighting-fast and missed by a fraction of an inch didn’t intend to sink his teeth into you and somehow miss - he was telling you to get the fuck away from him before he had to go there. Anyway, it’s up to the owner to know their dog well enough to understand where that threshold is and recognize signs that the dog is nearing it, and keep their dog from biting people. Whether that dog is constantly aggressive or has never shown one sign of aggression doesn’t make much difference. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But would a dog who’s not trained for fighting react to a strange kitten by tearing it apart? It seems a strange assumption. Doesn’t have anything to do with being trained for fighting, just on whether the dog knows how to kill animals. It’s largely natural instinct, for dogs that have the opportunity to learn how to use it. Most pet dogs these days don’t. A hundred years ago 90% of American dogs probably knew how to kill rats/rabbits/kittens, and ate them too. My oldest dog (a 20-lb white, fuzzy Tibetan Terrier - the breed is not known for having a strong prey drive) has killed a shitload of small animals in her time - by shaking them hard as soon as she catches them, not by tearing them limb from limb - including several kittens. My other two will chase animals, but don’t have that killing instinct once they catch them. They just hold them in their mouth and look confused. If they had more opportunity to catch animals and were around dogs that knew how to kill (my oldest dog is 14 and has bad eyesight now, she hasn’t killed anything in years), I’m sure they’d learn to kill and eat small animals. Dogs are predators and there are few that would be physically incapable of killing for a living. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-kitten-aka-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-people/547457.md?page=5)