# State Capital Orgins **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2000, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716 "2000-11-26T02:32:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/41 "2000-11-30T08:17:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, for a period of the nation’s history, there was a law/policy (the Northwest Ordinance?) that required that the capitol of any new state be situated within 30 miles of the state’s geographic center. I don’t know exactly which states this covered, but Ohio was one of them. Not to say that I don’t believe you, but this is blatantly unconstitutional. The Constitution specifically forbids Congress from making laws with respect to the “Places of chusing Senators.” At the time, Senators were chosen by the state legislatures. Thus, Congress was barred from choosing where the state legislature was located. Source: Article 1, Section 4, U.S. Constitution ---
**Author:** ![dwyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwyr/32/363_2.png) [@dwyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dwyr)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2000, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/42 "2000-11-30T09:17:23Z")
Kentucky’s capitol, Frankfort, actually predates the state somewhat. It was a town in what was then Virginia a few years before Ky became a state in 1792. I haven’t been to the capitol since I was a wee one but I still remember this big clock face covered with flowers; can’t really recall the capitol building but we seem to keep paying for renovations to the darned thing. My… what a fascinating post. [sub]Actually I’ve always thought Kentucky might be a cooler state if we’d kept the name Transylvania. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/43 "2001-09-07T17:51:45Z")
Sorry to bump this so late in the game, but Patrick Henry most certainly DID NOT make his “Give me liberty or give me death” speech in Williamsburg. He made it about 500 yards from my office, in St. John’s Church, on Church Hill, in Richmond, Virginia. Additionally, Williamsburg was not the furthest point on the Peninsula that Union forces managed - McClellan’s forces (150,000 strong) camped at White House in New Kent County on the Pamunkey River. The entire population of the county now is only about 13,000. Can’t imagine having more than 10 times the population camped out. That about does it. ---
**Author:** ![xicanorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a88e57/32.png) [@xicanorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xicanorex)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/44 "2001-09-07T21:22:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pantellerite \* > \*\*But, IIRC, there was an attempt to move it from Austin to somewhere else which was stopped by an unruly mob and thus in Austin it stayed. Sorry for the lack of details; my 7th grade knowledge of Texas History is rapidly decaying… \*\* Well, darn it!, you **are** right . . . .you still got good memor. 😉 Here is the whole story: [http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/AA/mqa2.html](http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/AA/mqa2.html) > [@](#): > > ARCHIVE WAR. In March 1842 a division of the Mexican army under Gen. Rafael Vásquez appeared at San Antonio demanding the surrender of the town; the Texans were not prepared to resist and withdrew. On March 10 President Sam Houston called an emergency session of the Texas Congress. Fearing that the Mexicans would move on Austin, he named Houston as the meetingplace. The citizens of Austin, fearful that the president wished to make Houston the capital, formed a vigilante committee of residents and warned department heads that any attempt to move state papers would be met with armed resistance. President Houston called the Seventh Congress into session at Washington-on-the-Brazos and at the end of December 1842 sent a company of rangers under Col. Thomas I. Smith and Capt. Eli Chandlerqqv to Austin with orders to remove the archives but not to resort to bloodshed. The Austin vigilantes were unprepared for the raid, and the rangers loaded the archives in wagons and drove away, but not before Mrs. Angelina Eberlyqv fired a cannon at them. On January 1, 1843 the vigilance committee, under Capt. Mark B. Lewis, seized a cannon from the arsenal and overtook the wagons at Kenney’s Fort on Brushy Creek. Only a few shots were fired before the rangers gave up the papers in order to avoid bloodshed. The archives were returned to Austin and remained there unmolested until Austin became the capital again in 1844. For more detailed history about Austin, Texas, here is an interesting summary of that city up to 1900’s at: [http://www.utexas.edu/courses/mis325/history/austin.htm](http://www.utexas.edu/courses/mis325/history/austin.htm) Hope is of interest. 🙂 XicanoreX ---
**Author:** ![xicanorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a88e57/32.png) [@xicanorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xicanorex)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/45 "2001-09-07T21:32:06Z")
Here is more history between choosing Houston or Austin as capital of Texas: [http://www.utexas.edu/courses/mis325/history/austin.htm](http://www.utexas.edu/courses/mis325/history/austin.htm) > [@](#): > > 1839 > The Congress of the Republic of Texas created a commission to select a permanent site for their capital. It was to be named Austin in honor of Stephen F. Austin, leader of the early settlement effort in the Territory of Texas. President Lamar personally advised the commissioners of the favorable characteristics of Waterloo. It was officially approved as the new capital on January 19th. > > The selection of Waterloo, however, did not meet with unanimous approval. In particular, General Sam Houston, hero of the decisive victory over the Mexican Army at the Battle of San Jacinto in 1836 and former President of the Republic of Texas, felt that Waterloo was too far from the coast (and easy sea transportation) and too close to Mexico (and the ever present threat of invasion). . . . > > 1842 > In March Mexican troops, lead by General Vasquez, invaded Texas and captured San Antonio (again). Sam Houston, who succeeded Lamar as President in 1841, ordered the seat of government moved from Austin to the small town of Houston. The citizens of Austin organized to prevent this movement. Although government operations were moved to Houston on March 13th (and then to Washington-on-the-Brazos in September), they were returned to Austin in 1845. An ongoing debate to select a permanent site for the capital was not fully resolved until November 1872 when Austin won over Houston and Waco in a state wide election. . . . > > 1872 > A state wide election held in November finally resolved the issue of the site for the permanent state capital. Austin (57%) won over Houston (32%) and Waco (11%). For another good summary on the history of the capitals in Texas, [http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/CC/mzc1.html](http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/CC/mzc1.html) XicanoreX ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/46 "2001-09-07T23:21:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > **…Also Juneau which was to be replaced by Willow and that fell through due to cost.** It fell through because voters repeatedly rejected the proposal, (URL=http://www.gov.state.ak.us/ltgov/elections/capmove.htm0most recently(/URL) in 1994. Another attempt is now underway in Alaska. This time, only the legislature would move out of Juneau. (There’s a vacant shopping mall where the proponents say the 60-member legislature could meet. Sure, that’s a lot more dignified than the old bank we have now.) Factual question here: Have any other state or provincial legislatures regularly met in plenary session outside of the capital city? For my money, one definition of “capital” is “where the legislature meets,” so this new scheme is based on a semantic loophole. ---
**Author:** ![PlanMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PlanMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlanMan)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/47 "2001-09-08T00:21:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by muffinman \* > \*\*Florida became a state in 1845, but the capital rotated between Jacksonville and Pensacola (south florida was considered unusable refuse). The road between was dangerous though, and remains dangerous to this day, though only small fragments remain. Tallahassee was established right in the middle between them, and was thus a very artificial city. > Today, it continues to have no real industrial base. Most who live here either work for the government, or in consumer services/sales. With three colleges, it does have quite a student base (Florida State, Florida A & M, and Tallahassee Community College). > I’ll now slap myself so I’ll stop rambling. \*\* Trying to recall my 4th grade Florida History, I seem to recall that there were 2 Floridas in the early days: West Florida - capital in Pensacola, a port city, and East Florida - capital in St. Augustine, the oldest (1565) continuous European settlement in the USA. As **muffinman** said, there wasn’t much worthwhile south of St. Augustine at the time (or now?). When East and West merged, the story goes, horsemen set out from each capitol, and where-ever they met, that would be the new capital. Sounds apocryphal to me, but that’s the story. And **muffinman** is also right about Tallahasse (only state capital with 3 double letters) - the only thing keepng it alive are the 2 Universities and the state government (everybody has a community college, so I don’t count it). ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/48 "2001-09-08T04:16:56Z")
A bit more about Colorado. Denver was founded by two groups of miners - one group coming from Nebraska and the other coming out of Kansas. They established a community on the banks of the South Platte. It was called Auraria and was washed away a couple of times before it finally took. Early on it was little more than a group of gambling houses, brothels, and music halls most of which were located in tents. A couple of other towns were considered as the capital including Salida, Pueblo, Central City and Colorado City (which in fact was briefly the territorial capital. It is now called Old Colorado City to clearly separate it from the Colorado City 80 miles south of Old Colorado City. The newer Colorado City was established by a handful of Texans in the second half of the 20th century who didn’t realize or didn’t care that there was already a town called Colorado City). Denver was named after a Rebublican territorial governor based in Kansas City in hopes of garnering votes for statehood status. The joke was on the Denverites, however. By the time statehood came to a vote, the Republicans were out of power and Denver (the politician) had been forced to resign in disgrace over some financial irregularities. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/49 "2001-09-08T06:00:32Z")
To the best of my knowledge, Boston has been the capital of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts or Massachusetts Bay Colony from the time it was founded in 1630. It was put there because it was the best natural harbor around, and was easily defended, being hilly and barely connected to the rest of the land. These days it is neither, but has remained the capital. Hell, we’ve been using the same building since 1803 or so (OK, it’s been greatly expanded). And the Old State House is still around, still bearing the lion and unicorn representing the British crown, and the seal of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Basically, since 1713, our capital has moved once, about a third of a mile. ---
**Author:** ![Flymaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c4cdca/32.png) [@Flymaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flymaster)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/50 "2001-09-08T06:24:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by waterj2 \* > \*\*To the best of my knowledge, Boston has been the capital of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts or Massachusetts Bay Colony from the time it was founded in 1630. It was put there because it was the best natural harbor around, and was easily defended, being hilly and barely connected to the rest of the land. These days it is neither, but has remained the capital. Hell, we’ve been using the same building since 1803 or so (OK, it’s been greatly expanded). And the Old State House is still around, still bearing the lion and unicorn representing the British crown, and the seal of the Massachusetts Bay Colony. > > Basically, since 1713, our capital has moved once, about a third of a mile. \*\* I think it was more because it was so easily defended. Marblehead/Salem/Beverly is a better harbor, and was, in fact, the original US Naval base. Boston was just a very good harbor, on an extremely easily defended peninsula. It was not the best harbor, really, just close to it. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716/51 "2001-09-08T15:06:35Z")
Provincetown arguably has the best natural harbor in Massachusetts. But in the early days, the best was probably in Maine. (Maine was part of Massachusetts until 1820). Even so, places like Cutler and Eastport, Maine, aren’t exactly hubs of the universe. It takes more than just a good harbor to make an important city. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-capital-orgins/42716.md?page=2)