# State Department is allowing international observers to monitor the election **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181 "2004-08-10T12:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/1 "2004-08-10T12:28:05Z")
Beyond this being a welcome development, I have to wonder about the behind-the-scenes goings on. Colin Powell ok’d this. He also pulled out as a speaker at the Republican convention. > [@](#): > > [International team to monitor presidential election](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/08/international.observers/index.html) > > Observers will be part of OSCE’s human rights office > > WASHINGTON (CNN) – A team of international observers will monitor the presidential election in November, according to the U.S. State Department. > > The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe was invited to monitor the election by the State Department. The observers will come from the OSCE’s Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights. > > It will be the first time such a team has been present for a U.S. presidential election. > > “The U.S. is obliged to invite us, as all OSCE countries should,” spokeswoman Urdur Gunnarsdottir said. “It’s not legally binding, but it’s a political commitment. They signed a document 10 years ago to ask OSCE to observe elections.” > > Thirteen Democratic members of the House of Representatives, raising the specter of possible civil rights violations that they said took place in Florida and elsewhere in the 2000 election, wrote to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan in July, asking him to send observers. > > After Annan rejected their request, saying the administration must make the application, the Democrats asked Secretary of State Colin Powell to do so. > > The issue was hotly debated in the House, and Republicans got an amendment to a foreign aid bill that barred federal funds from being used for the United Nations to monitor U.S. elections, The Associated Press reported. > > In a letter dated July 30 and released last week, Assistant Secretary of State Paul Kelly told the Democrats about the invitation to OSCE, without mentioning the U.N. issue. > > “I am pleased that Secretary Powell is as committed as I am to a fair and democratic process,” said Democratic Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson of Texas, who spearheaded the effort to get U.N. observers. > > “The presence of monitors will assure Americans that America cares about their votes and it cares about its standing in the world,” she said in a news release. > > Democratic Rep. Barbara Lee of California agreed. > > “This represents a step in the right direction toward ensuring that this year’s elections are fair and transparent,” she said. > > “I am pleased that the State Department responded by acting on this need for international monitors. We sincerely hope that the presence of the monitors will make certain that every person’s voice is heard, every person’s vote is counted.” > > OSCE, the world’s largest regional security organization, will send a preliminary mission to Washington in September to assess the size, scope, logistics and cost of the mission, Gunnarsdottir said. > > The organization, which counts among its missions conflict prevention and postconflict rehabilitation, will then determine how many observers are required and where in the United States they will be sent. > > “OSCE-participating [nations] agreed in 1990 to observe elections in one another’s countries. The OSCE routinely monitors elections within its 55-state membership, including Europe, Eurasia, Canada and the United States,” a State Department spokesman said. > > The spokesman said the United States does not have any details on the size and composition of the observers or what countries will provide them. > > OSCE, based in Vienna, Austria, has sent more than 10,000 personnel to monitor more than 150 elections and referenda in more than 30 countries during the past decade, Gunnarsdottir said. > > In November 2002, OSCE sent 10 observers on a weeklong mission to monitor the U.S. midterm elections. OSCE also sent observers to monitor the California gubernatorial recall election last year. > > More recently, OSCE monitored the elections in Northern Ireland in November and in Spain in March. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/2 "2004-08-10T12:39:44Z")
It took over 200 years and an idiot cowboy, but we’ve made it: we’re a third-world country. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/3 "2004-08-10T12:51:08Z")
“Third-world country?” European Union elections are [authorized to have international observers](http://www.coe.int/T/E/Clrae/_4._Sessions_of_the_CLRAE/2._Spring_sessions/partII_CG_9_26_E.asp): > [@](#): > > 3.2. Observation of elections > > a. Both national and _international observers_ should be given the widest possible opportunity to participate in an election observation exercise. > > b. Observation must not be confined to the election day itself, but must include the registration period of candidates and, if necessary, of electors, as well as the electoral campaign. It must make it possible to determine whether irregularities occurred before, during or after the elections. It must always be possible during vote counting. > > c. The places where observers are not entitled to be present should be clearly specified by law. > > d. Observation should cover respect by the authorities of their duty of neutrality. (my italics) In some respects, I think the US is finally catching up with the rest of the world. Why not have neutral observers at an election? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/4 "2004-08-10T13:24:33Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > In some respects, I think the US is finally catching up with the rest of the world. Why not have neutral observers at an election? Given the dislike many foreigners have for Bush how can we say they’re neutral? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/5 "2004-08-10T14:08:42Z")
Well, that’s why the EU authorizations include “d. Observation should cover respect by the authorities of their duty of neutrality.” If the State Department believes that the observers can’t be “neutral,” then they should be able to bar them from observing. After all, this is the _State Department_ which is permitting the observers to attend, not the DNC. The State Department is headed by Colin Powell–do you think he would be trying to embarrass the GOP by inviting these selected observers? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/6 "2004-08-10T15:37:11Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > After all, this is the _State Department_ which is permitting the observers to attend, not the DNC. The State Department is headed by Colin Powell–do you think he would be trying to embarrass the GOP by inviting these selected observers? Nah, I don’t think he’s trying to embarass the GOP. I just find it hard to believe that anybody knowledgeable enough about the voting process is truly neutral. Ultimately my reaction to UN observers to our elections is a resounding meh. I’m wildly indifferent as I see no reason to be concerned or embarassed. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Optihut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/edb3f5/32.png) [@Optihut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Optihut)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/7 "2004-08-10T16:17:56Z")
> [@MGibson](#): > > Given the dislike many foreigners have for Bush how can we say they’re neutral? > Marc Well, do you really think an observer is going to turn a blind eye, if Kerry should decide to manipulate the election? I find that unlikely, so I think the observers will be neutral and impartial in pointing out inconsistencies at the election irrespective of the source, in the unlikely event that there are any such things to report. But you are right, the dislike for Bush - which doesn’t come out of the blue, mind you - would cause me to pay a bit more attention to what the Bush administration does at the election, if I were an observer. Since observers merely watch, they won’t have an adverse effect on the elections though. In fact, the USA and the Bush administration in particular can only benefit from this, as it restores the faith in democratic elections. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/8 "2004-08-10T16:53:14Z")
What would be interesting is to see what these observes notice, if anything, of significance regarding our elections that we haven’t noticed or seen in the US media already. Where will they be watching? Will they be at polls in certain places set up by the State Department or can they request specific locales to observe in? If I were one of these observers, I think there’d be some interesting places that I’d like to watch elections, like in the Florida counties that were such a problem with the last election, or in some of the places in Chicago and Philadelphia in which I’ve heard those weird stories about dead people showing up to vote, or perhaps say in a mental health facility to observe how it is that those who wish to vote there are helped to do so. I also think that as long as the observers are as fair and objective as possible, and this could be helped along if it were possible to pair the observers in right-leaning and left-leaning pairs at each observation point, we have an opportunity to learn some valuable stuff by seeing with ‘new eyes.’ I do hope this opportunity is not squandered, but perhaps that is idealistic. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/9 "2004-08-10T20:10:14Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > It took over 200 years and an idiot cowboy, but we’ve made it: we’re a third-world country. Four years, please. We were doing fine up through 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/10 "2004-08-10T20:32:35Z")
It’s a good thing IMO - but in this case not really because the US elections need international observers. I imagine the elections will be vigorously observed by Americans like never before, and they won’t be shy in denouncing any shortcomings, nor will anyone be able to hinder them from that. International observers of US elections are useful not because the US were a banana republic but **if the US is seen to welcome international observers, banana republics have no excuse not to.** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/11 "2004-08-10T20:41:24Z")
Several questions come to mind: 1. How are these OSCE observers different from the UN observers some Democrats requested earlier? Why did the Admin find them more acceptable? Do they use different methods? Apply different standards? (Or is it just because it’s likely that all or most of the OSCE observers will be white, and UN observers might not be?) 2. If these observers observe something they consider improper – what happens then? Who do they tell? And who has the authority to do anything about it? 3. If this election, like the 2000 election, is close enough to be thrown into the courts, is the testimony of OSCE observers admissible in evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/12 "2004-08-10T20:46:30Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Colin Powell ok’d this. He also pulled out as a speaker at the Republican convention. Did he give a reason? Has he finally had enough of this bunch? This could be political fodder for the left. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/13 "2004-08-10T20:59:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > … Why did the Admin find them more acceptable?.. From the relevant [OSCE](http://www.osce.org/odihr/?page=elections)site: > [@](#): > > The 1990 Copenhagen Document commits OSCE participating States to invite other States to observe their elections So it’s actually an a preexistent agreement. If I read this correctly the US have issued invitations for a decade and the OSCE has passed until the 2002 US midterm elections. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If these observers observe something they consider improper – what happens then? Who do they tell? And who has the authority to do anything about it? It seems the observers publish [reports](http://www.osce.org/odihr/?page=elections&div=reports), and the rest is up to the political process (and possibly the judiciary) of the respective country. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/14 "2004-08-10T21:35:10Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Colin Powell ok’d this. He also pulled out as a speaker at the Republican convention. Did he “pull out”? It’s my understanding that Cabinet members, by tradition, do not speak at presidential conventions. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2004, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/15 "2004-08-10T23:40:14Z")
I appreciate everyone’s thoughts, thank you. > [@MGibson](#): > > I’m wildly indifferent as I see no reason to be concerned or embarassed. After Florida 2000, every American should be concerned and embarrassed. I’m terrified. I don’t know what to think of the observers. The thing that needs to be watched the most are electronic voting machines, especially in Florida. I don’t know how observers could help there. > [@catsix](#): > > What would be interesting is to see what these observes notice, if anything, of significance regarding our elections that we haven’t noticed or seen in the US media already. > I do hope this opportunity is not squandered, but perhaps that is idealistic. Good post. I agree. > [@John Mace](#): > > Did he “pull out”? It’s my understanding that Cabinet members, by tradition, do not speak at presidential conventions. He was scheduled, up until last week. I have no cite for that though, sorry. I watched some of the “news” “coverage” of the Democratic National Convention and heard it mentioned several times that he would be there. Maybe by tradition Cabinet members don’t speak, but I’d think the Bush administration and Republican party could have anyone they want, and they’d really really want Colin Powell. The “tradition” card is awfully handy to be able to use. > [@Chefguy](#): > > Did he give a reason? Has he finally had enough of this bunch? This could be political fodder for the left. This is the only cite I have for him not appearing: [GOP Star to Skip Convention](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46593-2004Aug6.html). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/16 "2004-08-11T00:06:21Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > The thing that needs to be watched the most are electronic voting machines, especially in Florida. I don’t know how observers could help there. Maybe they could do some exit polls, to provide a check against the official vote count. If the polling sample is statistically large enough to be reliable, and the exit poll result does not match the official count, a red flag would go up. But that would take a lot of observers with a lot of funding. How many are they sending? As for Powell – my guess is, he is at long last disgusted with an adminstration that has rewarded his steadfast loyalty by consistently ignoring his advice. And he might have ambitions to make a presidential bid in 2008, and it will help if he can dissociate himself from Bush. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/17 "2004-08-11T01:41:48Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Did he “pull out”? It’s my understanding that Cabinet members, by tradition, do not speak at presidential conventions. Your understanding would be incorrect. The media (no doubt fed this point by the WH) has reported such, but Secretary of Education Rod Paige is speaking at GOP the convention, so the tradition seems to be spotty at best. It’s amazing how stupid the press core is sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-department-is-allowing-international-observers-to-monitor-the-election/259181/18 "2004-08-11T01:44:31Z")
BTW, here’s a [cite](http://www.2004nycgop.org/contents/newsroom/general_info/faq/): > [@](#): > > On Tuesday, August 31, First Lady Laura Bush, Secretary of Education Rod Paige and Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-CA) will address the nation in primetime Tradition, my kiester.