# State driver licenses which will no longer allow you to fly **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206 "2017-01-15T03:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/21 "2017-01-15T17:18:03Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > For all its faults and idiosyncrasies, the USA might be the only country in the world in which one is free to walk about in a public place without being required to show papers of identity. That fact itself leads to the variety of different documents that are recognized as forms of identity for special purposes. Nobody has ever asked me to show “papers of identity” when I’ve simply been walking around (or in my case, rolling around). ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/22 "2017-01-15T17:34:50Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Do they still have the licenses that don’t expire for decades? Yep. They expire on your 60th birthday. Arizona now has a special “Real-ID” compliant ID, but it takes a bunch of paperwork and waiting in line at the DMV, so I haven’t gone through that mess yet. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/23 "2017-01-15T17:45:15Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, we do [need ID to fly]. > > Nevermind that the 9/11 terrorists used their actual, real ID’s and had been in the US on valid student visas, those who passed the act somehow had the notion that asking those yahoos for ID’s would have somehow stopped the whole affair. :rolleyes: > > Mind you, upgrading the security and anti-tampering/counterfeiting of ID’s probably wasn’t a bad idea in general but the notion this will somehow significantly prevent terrorism is mostly security theater. And furthermore, all new applicants for pilot licenses are now vetted by the TSA or Homeland Security or somesuch. Can similar vetting of everyone for driver licenses be far behind? ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/24 "2017-01-15T17:56:15Z")
Minnesota? Goody two shoes Minnesota? The state that’s always in the top ten lists for “Ten Best States for Whatever” Minnesota? The state that gave us Prince and MST3K, that Minnesota? I am perplexed. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/25 "2017-01-15T18:01:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Only twenty-five states are currently in compliance. Seventeen states are in the process of coming into compliance and have been given extensions. (Really guys? You had twelve years.) The remaining eight states haven’t started. Part of the issue was that at the time REAL-ID was enacted, quite a few states were in the middle of, or had just relatively recently finished, spending money porting their Driver License and State ID(\*) procedures and databases into a digital format and security measures that suited each of the 50+jurisdictions’particular criteria, and now the Feds were demanding that they do it over to \*their \*satisfaction with an unfunded mandate. (\*by now essentially the same document except the DL adds the information about that you passed the driving test and under what category restrictions) The deal is that state IDs that did not satisfy the Feds would become not valid for a number of federally regulated activities requiring ID - interstate air travel, access to federal facilities, or to regulated nuclear materials facilities, etc. So it was an indirect federalization of the state ID requirements and basically a way of telling the states “We want YOU to do the scutwork of gathering these items of information about everyone toone common standard and compiling them in one uniform format so it’s easy for US to look up. At YOUR cost”. Now, even over the valid objection that many state officials had along the lines of “you want a database of this info, gather it yourselves”, had Uncle Sam said “here, I’ll pay for that” they’d likely be done with it by now. But Congress resorted to their usual “it’s voluntary, but I’ll inflict pain if you don’t do it” style (see also: 55mph speed limit, 21yo drinking age) so they would not get accused of trying to establish a National ID, which for some reason was a bit of a huff post-9/11 (both pro- and con-) in spite of the mentioned fact that the terrorists mostly had their documents in order and were not using assumed identities. > [@jtur88](#): > > For all its faults and idiosyncrasies, the USA might be the only country in the world in which one is free to walk about in a public place without being required to show papers of identity. That fact itself leads to the variety of different documents that are recognized as forms of identity for special purposes. Mythology alert. You do understand most citizens of the Free World do NOT walk around in fear of getting arbitrarily stopped for their papers on an everyday basis. But still, that’s the other part of the story – Driving Licenses, voter cards, social Security cards, Birth/Baptismal certificates, etc. were not supposed at their inception to be used as general civil Identity Documents (and the SSA card explicitly states so and for most of the current century they’ve been cracking down on use of the SSN as a general ID code) but simply as evidence that you were authorized to drive a vehicle, vote, take employment, old enough to marry, a member of the church, etc. Therefore their formats, the type of information they gather and the standard of proof for it to be issued were varied all over the land. This because in older times, you seldom needed to “identify”. You could travel and buy things and enter public facilites just by showing up and in private facilities simply sign in whatever name you saw fit if so required. If for some official purpose you needed proof of who you were, back when communities were closer knit if the only pieces of paper you had were an old yellowing Baptismal Certificate and a land deed you could have some well known respected members of the community go before the authorities with you and swear who you were, but that would only be needed very seldom. But as society began developing in a direction by which various other transactions would be done impersonally and public and private clerks become required to take down your information on a more everyday basis, many of those documents became in turn repurposed as “ID” in order to show the clerks did their job of not just taking your word for it. In the USA, once the driving license began including a photograph of the driver and their address of record, it became the go-to such document, being issued by the State and not by the individual county or municipality and most people carrying it on their person every day. Rinse and repeat and nowadays the Powers That Be want something that may be impersonally looked up in a database in a standard format at a moment’s notice. But of course, Heaven Forbid that America simply move to adopt one universal “yes this is me” document. Because, FREEDOM!!! or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/26 "2017-01-15T18:02:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > With a bonus however. Think about the new federal program that require people to prove their identity to the satisfaction of a government official in order to obtain a valid ID. And now think about the concurrent movement to require people to produce a valid ID in order to vote. Apples and oranges. The REAL ID requirement only applies for federal purposes. For state purposes like voting, the states are free to allow the old process to be sufficient. In my state, when we apply/renew a license, we are asked if we want the “federal ID” or “state only” ID. Further, the new requirements are not some nefarious “to the satisfaction of a government official” like a carry permit in New York. They are objective requirements that once met require the issuance of the ID. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/27 "2017-01-15T18:06:10Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, we do. > > Nevermind that the 9/11 terrorists used their actual, real ID’s and had been in the US on valid student visas, those who passed the act somehow had the notion that asking those yahoos for ID’s would have somehow stopped the whole affair. :rolleyes: > > Mind you, upgrading the security and anti-tampering/counterfeiting of ID’s probably wasn’t a bad idea in general but the notion this will somehow significantly prevent terrorism is mostly security theater. Or after a guy used matches to attempt to blow up his shoe, they banned lighters but not matches. Granted his failure was due to the difficulty of matches, but still… > [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Really ? I’ve _never_ been asked for my identity once in Britain, ( apart from opening accounts ) and I’ve _never_ carried identification in any form. > > Except for debit cards if I took them along, but I could have stolen them. > > Same applies in Denmark, France and other European counties. The idea that America is ‘the only place’ is always deluded crap from boosters. Lots of countries have this requirement: [List of national identity card policies by country - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_national_identity_card_policies_by_country) UK is not one of them, though they once planned to. The US does not, but many states require you to identify if suspected of a crime (no states require photo ID for mere walking). And cops can certainly request your ID even if you have no obligation to show one. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/28 "2017-01-15T20:40:29Z")
The law also prevents entering federal buildings with the one exception of applying for certain benefits. There goes the criminal justice system when you can neither get jurors or witnesses into court. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/29 "2017-01-16T00:20:26Z")
When we went last year to my daughter’s graduation from basic training at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, we were told a Missouri state id would not be enough to get us onto base, which I found quite ticklishly ironic. Fortunately, between my Florida id and Ivylad’s retired military id, we had no issue. ---
**Author:** ![urban1a](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47c2d/32.png) [@urban1a](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1a)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/30 "2017-01-16T03:07:24Z")
Colorado is in the process of issuing the new driver licenses. I am not ready yet, but my current license has a gold star on it stating that I (Colorado) is in compliance and that my license is OK with the TSA. I have seen the new licenses and by the time it is time for me to get mine I will no longer be able to read it. The information is in very tiny print and to me doesn’t look like it is comprised of individual letters or numbers. Bob ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/31 "2017-01-16T04:10:06Z")
I had to go check other sites to follow this correctly. At first I thought that somehow your state driver’s license was related to whether you could get a license to fly a plane. :smack: Does anyone know whether TSA Pre check or something like that provides sufficient ID to get around this, or do you just have to carry your passport to fly, even domestically? I have to say, this is really strange, since I fly a lot, and I’ve never had an issue using a state-issued id. Most poorly enforced law evah. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/32 "2017-01-16T04:38:00Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > The US does not, but many states require you to identify if suspected of a crime (no states require photo ID for mere walking). And cops can certainly request your ID even if you have no obligation to show one. If suspected of a crime, you can simply be arrested, regardless of whether you have ID or not. If you are not suspected of anything for which you can be detained with probable cause, you can be required to state your name and address, but it is not necessary to show any documents to prove your identity. As far as I know, Arizona is the only state that has recently required papers or ID for a routine stop, and that was quickly brought to an end. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/33 "2017-01-16T04:51:13Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I had to go check other sites to follow this correctly. At first I thought that somehow your state driver’s license was related to whether you could get a license to fly a plane. :smack: > > Does anyone know whether TSA Pre check or something like that provides sufficient ID to get around this, or do you just have to carry your passport to fly, even domestically? > > I have to say, this is really strange, since I fly a lot, and I’ve never had an issue using a state-issued id. Most poorly enforced law evah. It isn’t in effect till January of next year. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/34 "2017-01-16T05:04:43Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > Minnesota? Goody two shoes Minnesota? The state that’s always in the top ten lists for “Ten Best States for Whatever” Minnesota? The state that gave us Prince and MST3K, that Minnesota? > > I am perplexed. Oddly enough, they offer an enhanced driver’s licence for North American non-air travel. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/35 "2017-01-16T06:21:38Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Mythology alert. You do understand most citizens of the Free World do NOT walk around in fear of getting arbitrarily stopped for their papers on an everyday basis… No kidding. Plus, the people who believe that America is extra special in the freedom department tend to conveniently forget things like Stop and Frisk and Ferguson. I guarantee you, if your a black person in certain parts of America, you can anticipate being stopped and asked for identification by the authorities. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/36 "2017-01-16T14:45:28Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Oddly enough, they offer an enhanced driver’s licence for North American non-air travel. WA’s enhanced license also works. But there’s some state law that actually prohibits compliance with Real ID, so we’re out of compliance. They’re trying to rescind the law - which will probably allow them to get another extension. This is like the 4th or 5th time this has happened. And so far, every time, the feds have decided to let it slide. I’m surprised they’re finally putting their foot down. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/37 "2017-01-16T15:19:26Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > WA’s enhanced license also works. But there’s some state law that actually prohibits compliance with Real ID, so we’re out of compliance. They’re trying to rescind the law - which will probably allow them to get another extension. > This is like the 4th or 5th time this has happened. And so far, every time, the feds have decided to let it slide. I’m surprised they’re finally putting their foot down. Specifically, the Department of Licensing — the SoW equivalent of most other states’ “DMV” — is prohibited by statute from verifying an applicant’s citizenship/residency status. Removing this prohibition has been a hot potato in the Legislature for a decade or so; as far as I can tell, the sticking point is that nobody wants to take responsibility for whatever impact it would have on the fruit pickers and field workers in the Central and Eastern parts of the state. Last time I looked, the proposed stopgap would be to have a two-tiered system where someone who didn’t prove citizenship would get a license which states in large (un)friendly letters that it isn’t RealID compliant. Not sure whether the current enhanced license would stay in place (creating a three-tiered system) or be folded into the new full-featured license; and given the Leg’s current level of ability to work together, I ain’t holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/38 "2017-01-16T15:27:20Z")
Sounds like a good reason to drive instead of flying. I’ve managed to avoid any flights for 11 years. I consider the two hour check in (4 wasted hours for a trip), the long drive to the airport, TSA’s bullshit and I’ve decided I’d rather drive. I’d only fly if it takes more than 5 hours to get there by car. I wonder how many airline tickets never get sold because people avoid flying? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/39 "2017-01-16T16:57:05Z")
Can anyone explain, to a non American, why some drivers permits would, and some wouldn’t, be sufficient to fly? What’s the difference anyway? (I assume you mean fly domestically?) ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/40 "2017-01-16T17:57:26Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Can anyone explain, to a non American, why some drivers permits would, and some wouldn’t, be sufficient to fly? What’s the difference anyway? > (I assume you mean fly domestically?) Each state/issues their own drivers licenses/ID and each state sets their own requirements regarding what information and documentation is required However, only licenses that were issued in accordance with the requirements of Real ID can be used as ID to board an aircraft or enter any Federal facility which requires ID to enter (such as a military base) These requirements range from what information appears on the license to what documentation is needed to issue a license ( for example, proof of legal status and Social Security number ) to how the documents are verified ( SSN and birth certificates must be verified with particular databases). There are also requirements for how the states must store the documents , how the states must share information and the physical cards themselves must have specified security features and contain data in a machine readable format. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206.md?page=3)