# State driver licenses which will no longer allow you to fly **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 15, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206 "2017-01-15T03:49:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/41 "2017-01-16T18:00:29Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Can anyone explain, to a non American, why some drivers permits would, and some wouldn’t, be sufficient to fly? What’s the difference anyway? > (I assume you mean fly domestically?) Basically, back in 2005, the federal government drew up a set of minimum security standards for identification cards. Not all states yet comply with these standards. [See REAL ID](https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-public-faqs). Basically, they are standardizing the information that needs to be reported on the ID, and they are standardizing the requirements proving your identity necessary to obtain the ID. ETA: Also, there’s an information sharing provision, that the ID databases are shared between states. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/42 "2017-01-16T18:07:15Z")
Missed the edit window- 30 something years ago, when I got my first license, no copies were kept of my documents, they weren’t verified, I wasn’t asked if I was in the US legally or for a SSN and a clerk could print a license on the spot. They didn’t have photos and the only thing special about the paper was that it was a little thicker than usual. States can still issue those sorts of licenses if they choose- but they won’t be accepted by Federal agencies or for air travel. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/43 "2017-01-16T18:42:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I wonder how many airline tickets never get sold because people avoid flying? I’m sure that happens. On the other hand, _every_ flight I’ve been on during the past 5 years (or longer) have been 98% full or more. BTW, I got the [passport card](https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/information/card.html)when I renewed by passport. I thought it would save me from the WA Drivers License problem. Turns out it won’t. My traditional passport will have to do, or I’ll have to get an “enhanced” Drivers License. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/44 "2017-01-16T19:10:00Z")
At least residents of those states can hop a bus. If Hawaii gets added, most people here will be screwed. I remember those innocent days when you didn’t need to show ID to fly. The first time I moved to Hawaii was in 1991, after living in Albuquerque for a spell following my first time living in Thailand. Pre-Internet and you still had to go through travel agents for the most part. It was not much more to buy a round-trip ticket than a one-way, so I paid for round trip from LAX, then posted an ad selling my return flight back to there, subsidizing my fare a little. I sold the return ticket to a German tourist staying in Waikiki, which was perfect since I have a Germanic surname. The airline staff would have had no problem believing that man with the thick accent had that name. No one asked to see ID back then. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/45 "2017-01-16T19:28:22Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > At least residents of those states can hop a bus. If Hawaii gets added, most people here will be screwed. > > I remember those innocent days when you didn’t need to show ID to fly. The first time I moved to Hawaii was in 1991, after living in Albuquerque for a spell following my first time living in Thailand. Pre-Internet and you still had to go through travel agents for the most part. It was not much more to buy a round-trip ticket than a one-way, so I paid for round trip from LAX, then posted an ad selling my return flight back to there, subsidizing my fare a little. Heck, quite often it was cheaper to buy a round trip than a one-way, as odd as that sounds. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/46 "2017-01-16T20:20:15Z")
From the driver’s end, in my state the difference between a Real ID and a regular one is that the former has _a star on it._ ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/47 "2017-01-16T20:36:41Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > If you are not suspected of anything for which you can be detained with probable cause, you can be required to state your name and address, but it is not necessary to show any documents to prove your identity. No, the exact opposite is true. The U.S. Supreme Court has [held](http://www.copblock.org/38811/are-you-required-to-show-id-or-answer-questions-to-police-and-other-government-agents-upon-demand-by-john-henry-hill-m-d-ph-d/) that one can not be punished for failure to answer questions or provide identification to police in the absence of reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct: > [@](#): > > The court concluded “The application of Tex.Penal Code Ann., Tit. 8, § 38.02 (1974), to detain appellant and require him to identify himself violated the Fourth Amendment because the officers lacked any reasonable suspicion to believe appellant was engaged or had engaged in criminal conduct. Accordingly, appellant may not be punished for refusing to identify himself, and the conviction is Reversed.” Brown v. Texas, 443 U.S. 47 (1979) > [@jtur88](#): > > As far as I know, Arizona is the only state that has recently required papers or ID for a routine stop, and that was quickly brought to an end. The ‘landmark’ case was, as shown above, Brown v. Texas. There is also: > [@](#): > > Florida v. Royer, 460 U.S. 491, 500 (1983) “The person approached, however, need not answer any questions put to him; indeed, he may decline to listen to the questions at all and may go on his way” Id. at 497-98. > [@](#): > > Illinois v. Wardlow, 528 U.S. 119, 125 (2000) > “If they do not learn facts rising to the level of probable cause, an individual must be allowed to go on his way.” > [@](#): > > Brinegar v. United States – 338 U.S. 160 (1949) “The citizen who has given no good cause for believing he is engaged in [criminal] activity is entitled to proceed on his way without interference” (Page 338 U. S. 177) Among many other cites. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/48 "2017-01-16T22:10:02Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [http://www.simplemost.com/state-drivers-licenses-tsa-not-accept-travel-2018/?utm\_content=inf\_10\_3489\_](http://www.simplemost.com/state-drivers-licenses-tsa-not-accept-travel-2018/?utm_content=inf_10_3489_) The oddest quote from that link: > [@](#): > > You can continue to use your license to fly in the U.S. and access Federal facilities and nuclear power plants. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/49 "2017-01-16T22:18:23Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > And Arizona. > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Do they still have the licenses that don’t expire for decades? Yes, we do. And the travel ID won’t replace the regular driver’s license. Arizonans also have until October 1, 2020 to get the new travel ID. And it is good for eight years. [https://azdot.gov/mvd/driver-services/arizona-voluntary-travel-id/overview](https://azdot.gov/mvd/driver-services/arizona-voluntary-travel-id/overview) ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/50 "2017-01-17T00:13:46Z")
> [@xizor](#): > > The oddest quote from that link: > :eek: I couldn’t find that quote on that page but I did find this > [@](#): > > As of January 30, 2017, IDs from non-compliant states will not be accepted for entry into federal facilities, nuclear power plants or military bases. IDs from states that have been granted extensions will be accepted until the extension deadline. Are you sure you didn’t click on one of the links on that page? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/51 "2017-01-17T02:19:06Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > The law also prevents entering federal buildings with the one exception of applying for certain benefits. There goes the criminal justice system when you can neither get jurors or witnesses into court. Not to mention Immigration Court. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/52 "2017-01-17T15:51:09Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Are you sure you didn’t click on one of the links on that page? You are correct, I clicked into the link to see the status of an individual state, clicking on Tennessee provide the quote. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/53 "2017-01-17T16:19:41Z")
As recently as the 1990s, Louisiana’s licenses/IDs were just a piece of cardboard with a photograph glued onto them. They weren’t even laminated. I had a classmate from there who showed me hers. On the plus side (from a college student’s point of view), they were trivially easy to counterfeit, but on the minus side, even if yours was legitimate, every bar bouncer would assume that it was counterfeit. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/54 "2017-01-19T03:55:13Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > At least residents of those states can hop a bus. If Hawaii gets added, most people here will be screwed. > > I remember those innocent days when you didn’t need to show ID to fly. The first time I moved to Hawaii was in 1991, after living in Albuquerque for a spell following my first time living in Thailand. Pre-Internet and you still had to go through travel agents for the most part. It was not much more to buy a round-trip ticket than a one-way, so I paid for round trip from LAX, then posted an ad selling my return flight back to there, subsidizing my fare a little. I sold the return ticket to a German tourist staying in Waikiki, which was perfect since I have a Germanic surname. The airline staff would have had no problem believing that man with the thick accent had that name. No one asked to see ID back then. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Heck, quite often it was cheaper to buy a round trip than a one-way, as odd as that sounds. Now that I think of it, I think that was the case with me. I bought a one way from Albuquerque to LAX, then round trip from LAX to Honolulu, and that second ticket did cost somewhat less than a one way would have. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/55 "2017-01-19T05:07:55Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Now that I think of it, I think that was the case with me. I bought a one way from Albuquerque to LAX, then round trip from LAX to Honolulu, and that second ticket did cost somewhat less than a one way would have. Yeah, I can’t remember what the exact reasoning was, but I do remember buying round trip tickets a couple of times and chucking the return leg because it was cheaper than one-way. I also remember the airlines not being fond of that, and threatening to put you on some sort of list or something. There was also the technique of buying a ticket to a secondary destination with a layover in your actual (primary) destination, when trips to the secondary destination were cheaper than directs to the primary one. I want to say this was called “dead legging” or something (getting off at the layover point without continuing on.) This was punishable by having the rest of your itinerary cancelled by the airline, if I remember right. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/56 "2017-01-19T05:13:27Z")
Back when I was younger and flying more, airline ticket agents would tell me the two-way was cheaper even if you didn’t use it. I don’t recall it being a bad thing unless you didn’t cancel the return flight. I’m sure they don’t like no-shows. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/57 "2017-01-19T19:38:35Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > BTW, I got the [passport card](https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/information/card.html)when I renewed by passport. I thought it would save me from the WA Drivers License problem. Turns out it won’t. My traditional passport will have to do, or I’ll have to get an “enhanced” Drivers License. My understanding was that the passport card would be accepted by federal agencies. What makes you think otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/58 "2017-01-19T20:46:47Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > You need ID to fly? And how come there are so many kids (15 or younger) on planes if that’s so? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/59 "2017-01-19T20:55:59Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > And how come there are so many kids (15 or younger) on planes if that’s so? The explosions would be smaller? (D+r) ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206/60 "2017-01-19T22:26:42Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > And how come there are so many kids (15 or younger) on planes if that’s so? Current TSA rules don’t require kids under 18 to present ID for domestic travel. I don’t know how you prove that the kid is under 18. Perhaps you need an ID to prove you don’t need an ID. This reminds me of the problems my friends and I had in our youths. Bus drivers and train station agents were the bane of our existence. Back then you paid in cash and there was no automated fare collection other than the fare box that counted your coins. We would constantly get into arguments with surly bus drivers yelling at us “You aren’t under 12! Pay full fare or get off my bus!” Kids back then didn’t have IDs. And, yes, back then nobody would call the cops or family services just because a kid was on the streets without their parents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-driver-licenses-which-will-no-longer-allow-you-to-fly/777206.md?page=4)