# State of CA to make insulin **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 7, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577 "2022-07-07T20:25:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/41 "2022-07-10T06:27:25Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > > > > [@gnoitall](#): > > > > > > I’d speculate that the accusation would be something analogous to “dumping”, saturating a market with a commodity at a price point that makes all other seller’s offerings uncompetitive at the “required” profitable price. > > > > Do US competition laws apply to states when they provide a public service? > > Don’t those only apply, if they apply at all, to selling below the cost of production? > > And I’m not sure that in general even that’s illegal in the USA. Stores routinely carry “loss leaders”, after all. That’s not the issue here. The issue is this: There is a general rule that government should not get involved in any kind of financial enterprise that competes with private enterprise. _Maybe_ the state can get around that by decreeing this to be a public health policy. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/42 "2022-07-10T06:28:46Z")
Is that general rule in the Sherman Act? (I’m genuinely curious about this point.) ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/43 "2022-07-10T06:31:36Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > That’s not the issue here. The issue is this: There is a general rule that government should not get involved in any kind of financial enterprise that competes with private enterprise. What kind of “general rule” is this? Statutory? Constitutional? American Way? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/44 "2022-07-10T06:31:44Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > There is a general rule that government should not get involved in any kind of financial enterprise that competes with private enterprise. And yet the government has been giving away free vaccines for nearly two years and everyone is just OK with it. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/45 "2022-07-10T06:46:26Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > What kind of “general rule” is this? Statutory? Constitutional? American Way? “General rule” in the sense that this is a common policy at various government levels, although this consists of a “mish-mash” of specific non-compete rules and regulations (for example, the prisons commonly have rules about what work prisoners can do, to avoid competing with private industries). I googled “government not compete with private enterprise”, and there are a bunch of cites discussing how government does, or does not, or should, or should not, compete with private industry, along with all kinds of counter-examples of ways that it commonly does. But in any case, it is commonly contentious, and when California gets into the insulin business, there will be disputes over it. Here is one cite I found from stackexchange in which several useful-looking answers are given, some of them including cites to various legal cases: > > [@smapti](#): > > And yet the government has been giving away free vaccines for nearly two years and everyone is just OK with it. Note, though, this is a different situation: The government isn’t in the business of manufacturing its own vaccines. Rather, the gov’t buys vaccines from private manufacturers which it then gives away. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/46 "2022-07-10T11:12:14Z")
Insulin is not Rx except in Indiana. But for insurance to pay you need to get Rx from a Dr. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/47 "2022-07-10T13:16:30Z")
The clown that raised the price of the Epipen ended up in prison. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/48 "2022-07-10T15:33:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Insulin is not Rx except in Indiana. But for insurance to pay you need to get Rx from a Dr. Up here at the Canadian border, I often hear of people driving into BC for insulin and other prescription drugs. Now I’m wondering if A) insulin is a prescription medicine in Canada; and B) how much does it cost there over-the-counter? What about test strips and other diabetes medication? What about other medications? This morning I felt like [that ‘Aliens!’ guy](https://historycouk.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/styles/768x432/public/2020-07/ancient-aliens-1.png). I wondered if pharmaceutical corporations and insurance corporations are in collusion. Insurance companies need customers. To get customers, drugs have to be exorbitantly expensive. So drug makers charge more for their products so they make gobs of money, and patients have little choice but to buy health insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/49 "2022-07-10T15:50:41Z")
Here’s an article about it: > **[What Is the Monthly Cost of Insulin in Canada?](https://www.olympiabenefits.com/blog/what-is-the-monthly-cost-of-insulin-in-canada)** > > Learn the monthly cost of insulin in Canada, overall diabetes-related costs, and ways for small businesses to support their employees with diabetes. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/50 "2022-07-10T15:53:02Z")
Canada has always been good with insulin (despite Wall Street plutocrats offering key researchers dump trucks full of cash): > [@](#): > > According to Rutty, the inventors of insulin intended the life-saving drug to be accessible. > > “This was an issue then, a thought that this should be available for nothing, for free — or at least for a very, very little amount,” he said. > > One of its creators, Frederick Banting, refused to put his name on the patent as he felt it would violate the Hippocratic oath to profit off of insulin. John Macleod, another co-creator, similarly declined. While two other stakeholders, Charles Best and James Collip, did end up patenting the invention of insulin, [they sold it to the University of Toronto in 1923 for $1. > > “[Insulin] belongs to the world,” Banting said. “Not me.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/51 "2022-07-10T16:10:02Z")
> **Canadians without any coverage** report spending up to **$15,000 annually** in out-of-pocket costs. The Canadian Diabetes Association found that 57% of Canadians are not fully complying with their treatment plan because of high costs. Wow. I keep hearing that people go to Canada for cheap drugs, but after reading that I’m wondering if they’re saving anything. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/52 "2022-07-10T16:10:42Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > The clown that raised the price of the Epipen ended up in prison. At which point my schadenfreude prompted to toast the occasion. I hope the bastard winds up horribly allergic to his favorite food and when he finds out there’s no epi-pen available. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/53 "2022-07-10T16:10:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Wow. I keep hearing that people go to Canada for cheap drugs, but after reading that I’m wondering if they’re saving anything. I don’t know enough about it to comment further. That was the article I found while googling. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577/54 "2022-07-10T16:13:06Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > The clown that raised the price of the Epipen ended up in prison. But not for screwing consumers. For screwing Wall Street. Which tells you where the real crime lies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-ca-to-make-insulin/967577.md?page=2)