# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")
The jury has been selected and opening statements are currently scheduled for Monday, June 24. This thread is for discussion of the trial and evidence as it’s presented and the jury verdict. There are live feeds available during court proceedings. Some basic information to get us started. [Affidavit of Probable Cause](http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/12/us/13shooter-document.html) filed by Angela B. Corey, the special prosecutor. [Judge Debra S. Nelson](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/videogallery/72028714/News/George-Zimmerman-s-new-judge-Debra-S-Nelson) is assigned the George Zimmerman second-degree murder case. [Profiles of the six jury members.](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-jury-20130620,0,3507776.story) They are all female. [The judge has ruled that certain inflammatory words](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-geo-zimmerman-trial-profile-20130617,0,1761292.story) (two used in the affidavit) could not be used during jury selection. > [@](#): > > There is a short list of words that de la Rionda has agreed to avoid as he questions potential panel members. > > They include not only “profiled” but also five other words or phrases that defense attorney Mark O’Mara had asked the judge to ban in a motion he filed May 30. > > The others are “vigilante”; “self-appointed Neighborhood Watch captain”; “wannabe cop”; “He got out of the car after the police told him not to”; and “He confronted Trayvon Martin.” Nelson has not held a hearing on the motion nor issued a ruling. > > Two of those phrases appear in the probable-cause affidavit that prosecutors used to persuade a judge to jail Zimmerman on a second-degree-murder charge in April 2012. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2 "2013-06-20T20:54:18Z")
[The Frye hearing on audio analysis is continuing](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-audio-experts-hearing-20130620,0,4394635.story) this afternoon. > [@](#): > > Testimony continued this afternoon on one of the most dramatic pieces of evidence in the case: a 911 recording which captured screams and the gunshot that killed Trayvon. > > Two state experts say those screams did not come from Zimmerman. The judge today heard brief testimony from one of those two, Tom Owen, to rebut defense experts who say identifying the screamer is impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/3 "2013-06-20T21:07:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > [Profiles of the six jury members.](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-jury-20130620,0,3507776.story) They are all female. And, unsurprisingly, non-black. It would be nice if the justice system at least _tried_ to be fair. Jesus Christ. How they allowed juror who thought the protests in Sanford was “rioting” borders on insanity. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/4 "2013-06-20T21:12:53Z")
Juror B-29 is Hispanic. Alternate Juror B-72 is a young Hispanic man. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/5 "2013-06-20T21:35:11Z")
There would have been more diversity with a 12 member jury. I’m not sure why they choose to go with only six. The Frye hearing just concluded and the Judge is expected to rule on the audio experts Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/6 "2013-06-20T21:46:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Juror B-29 is Hispanic. Alternate Juror B-72 is a young Hispanic man. And, unsurprisingly, **non-black** - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/7 "2013-06-20T22:30:53Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > And, unsurprisingly, **non-black** > **[All-female jury to try Zimmerman | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-trial/index.html)** > > A jury of six women was chosen Thursday to hear the case of George Zimmerman, accused of murder in the 2012 killing of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. The prosecuting and defense attorneys referred to the jury members as five white women and one black or Hispanic woman. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/8 "2013-06-20T22:34:36Z")
It’s very unfortunate that Florida uses a six person jury for this type of case. It’s easier to get diversity with 12 jurors. There was a 40 person pool that potential jurors were randomly selected from. The defense and prosecution had objections to a few but surprisingly the jury selection went smoothly with very little argument from either side. > **[All-female jury to try Zimmerman | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/06/20/justice/florida-zimmerman-trial/index.html)** > > A jury of six women was chosen Thursday to hear the case of George Zimmerman, accused of murder in the 2012 killing of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin. > [@](#): > > Under Florida law, six-person juries hear all criminal cases except capital offenses. The charges against Zimmerman do not make it a capital case. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/9 "2013-06-20T23:08:46Z")
Per [this](http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/gm/ecodev/population.aspx), Seminole County is only 9.4% black (2009 data), so zero or 1 black person on a 6-person jury is about right. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/10 "2013-06-21T00:10:54Z")
As a defense-oriented guy, I would not be happy with an all female jury. For that matter, I would not be happy with a 6-member jury, either, but from what I understand, Florida does that in all except capital cases. I think both issues favor the prosecution–and the prosecution already has a stacked deck, with marked cards. Presumption of innocence be damned, juries want to convict, and most of them do. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/11 "2013-06-21T00:53:49Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Per [this](http://www.seminolecountyfl.gov/gm/ecodev/population.aspx), Seminole County is only 9.4% black (2009 data), so zero or 1 black person on a 6-person jury is about right. Yeah, 49% male, 6 white females. What’s the probability of that occurring by chance? None. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but in statistics, don’t you multiply the ratio by itself to get the probability? Soo, that’s 0.49 x 0.49 x 0.49 x 0.49 x 0.49 = 0.02% chance of 6 females on a jury. In other words, if my math is correct, there’s a less than 1% chance that there’d be a jury of 6 females. There is no way this occurred by chance in the face of a 0.02 probability. My BS meter is pinging. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/12 "2013-06-21T01:01:53Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Yeah, 49% male, 6 white females. What’s the probability of that occurring by chance? None. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but in statistics, don’t you multiply the ratio by itself to get the probability? Soo, that’s 0.49 x 0.49 x 0.49 x 0.49 x 0.49 = 0.02% chance of 6 females on a jury. In other words, if my math is correct, there’s a less than 1% chance that there’d be a jury of 6 females. Not quite: figure a ~50% chance the first will be female, so 25% for the first two, 12.5% for the first three, 6.25% for the first four, 3.125% for the first five, 1.5625% for all six. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/13 "2013-06-21T01:22:54Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > As a defense-oriented guy, I would not be happy with an all female jury. For that matter, I would not be happy with a 6-member jury, either, but from what I understand, Florida does that in all except capital cases. > > I think both issues favor the prosecution–and the prosecution already has a stacked deck, with marked cards. Presumption of innocence be damned, juries want to convict, and most of them do. While I tend to agree with you, the TV lawyers say an all female jury works for the defense as they tend to think women can empathize more with a Zimmerman feeling vulnerable and victimized. Not sure I buy that though. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/14 "2013-06-21T01:35:06Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > And, unsurprisingly, non-black. It would be nice if the justice system at least _tried_ to be fair. Jesus Christ. How they allowed juror who thought the protests in Sanford was “rioting” borders on insanity. > > - Honesty What aspect of the law (if any) surrounding the selection of jurors was violated by this choice, in your view? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/15 "2013-06-21T01:52:49Z")
**Honesty** , I wouldn’t automatically leap to the conclusion that the jury’s gender makeup is the result of shenanigans. An all female jury doesn’t mirror the overall population, but that may not be a bad thing. If the overall population is disproportionately bigoted, tainted by media bias, and incapable of critical thought, then we should not be sad if the jury skews in the other direction. It could be that men summoned for jury duty in Seminole Co. were particularly talented in disqualifying themselves. After seeing the batshit insanity put out on the internets by self-identified men for the last year, I honestly wouldn’t put it past them. The prosecution and defense were given the opportunity to cull out jurors they believe will be unfairly biased against their candidate. Prospective jurors were also administered a screening questionnaire before the lawyers even got their hands on them. So yeah, after all this, I’m not surprised the jury looks this way. I’m willing to withhold judgement from the jury until they give me a reason to judge them. Race aside, though, Zimmerman could not have asked for worst demographics. What he was wanting was a box full of white dudes who are proud and passionate defenders of SYG, vigilantee heroics, and anything put out by Fox News no matter how ridiculous. What he ended up getting was a bunch of mothers, some of whom have raised boys, and are probably not all that impressed by gun-weilding tough guy theatrics. Yeah, I’m sure some of them are biased as all get out, and I wouldn’t put it past them to lapse into stupid when evaluating the evidence. But at this time, I’m not complaining. Zimmerman should be worried. The other thing worth pointing out (and I’m sure the Zimmerman supporters will disagree with this, but they stay in denial so that ain’t surprising) is that there is a big difference in interpersonal skills between BLDR and O’Mara/West. Anyone who has tuned into the trial so far can see this starkly. Not to stereotype too much, but with an all-female jury, the defense definitely has a reason to worry about this. Body language, tone, and overall demeanor all go into building trust, and trust goes hand in hand with belief. I think women are more attuned to non-verbal communication than men are, and the prosecution is winning in that area. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/16 "2013-06-21T02:00:10Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > While I tend to agree with you, the TV lawyers say an all female jury works for the defense as they tend to think women can empathize more with a Zimmerman feeling vulnerable and victimized. Not sure I buy that though. If 300-lb Zimmerman takes the stand and describes nearly being beaten to death by an unarmed 160-lb kid, I think women will recognize that their bodily dimensions match closest to Martin than the Z-ster. And I hope the State does all they can to help them see that. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/17 "2013-06-21T02:16:52Z")
Zimmerman is Hispanic anyhow. If anything a white jury could show bias against him. Hopefully not. Everyone deserves a fair trial. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/18 "2013-06-21T02:26:14Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > If 300-lb Zimmerman takes the stand and describes nearly being beaten to death by an unarmed 160-lb kid, I think women will recognize that their bodily dimensions match closest to Martin than the Z-ster. And I hope the State does all they can to help them see that. Wow. I was about to ask you if you were being hyperbolic about Zimmerman weighing 300 lbs, but I didn’t realize how much [weight](http://globalgrind.com/news/george-zimmerman-weight-gain-photos) that guy has gained since he was arrested. Probably still not three bills, but damn. That said, I tend to agree with your analysis, but most “TV experts” [disagree](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/blogs/tv-guy/os-george-zimmerman-analysts-see-defense-edge-20130620,0,7572541.post). > [@](#): > > Randy McClean, another WOFL analyst, said the all-woman jury would be “very favorable” to the defense. Zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder in the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin. > > WESH-Channel 2 legal analyst Richard Hornsby agreed that the jury makeup favored the defense. > > “With female jurors, in my experience, is they tend to pick an attorney they like,” Hornsby said. "What attorneys are these jurors gravitating toward? Whose personalities are they enjoying? [Prosecutor] Bernie [de la Rionda] is a very bombastic attorney. I think he may grate on them after a while. … O’Mara and [defense attorney Don] West are kind of endearing. That may be a bigger impact overall in the long term.” > > But WESH analyst Alisia Adamson said the jury makeup seemed to favor the state. “The thought of a mother losing a child is so detrimental, so horrific,” she said. But later, she added, that having no African-Americans on the jury would be a benefit to the defense. Again, I think they are fooling themselves, but who knows. I saw a few others on TV saying basically the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/19 "2013-06-21T03:23:16Z")
Note: To whom it may constern: **Projammer** started a related thread: [Predict the Outcome of Florida vs. George Zimmerman](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=694394). Poll included. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/20 "2013-06-21T04:33:13Z")
> [@](#): > > “With female jurors, in my experience, is they tend to pick an attorney they like,” Hornsby said A jury of 10 women and 2 men acquitted OJ Simpson of murdering the woman he’d beaten and threatened for years, and pre-trial research indicated that females responded very negatively to Marcia Clark, so maybe there’s something to that. > [@Honesty](#): > > Yeah, 49% male, 6 white females. What’s the probability of that occurring by chance? None. Let me clarify my point: the jury as selected is representative of the area’s racial demographics (the jury is 83% white and 17% Hispanic; Seminole County is 82.8% white and 15.6% Hispanic), though as you note, not its gender demographics. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=2)