# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2101 "2013-07-14T10:13:20Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Are federal charges coming up the pike? Perhaps Zimmerman should start looking for political asylum in Latin America. The Federal investigation into whether it was a race hate crime was dropped. I don’t know of any other Federal crime that applies, but there may be some. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2102 "2013-07-14T12:14:04Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > Did you even bother to follow the trial or are you just here to stir the pot and do your Internet tough guy act? My comment wasn’t in response to the trial, it was in response to the claim that liberals are more hateful than everyone else. > [@Leaper](#): > > As I mentioned in the other thread, please forgive some people for seeing this verdict as a “go ahead and shoot black teenagers if you don’t like them” signal, when there are [reactions like this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=16471025&postcount=113) _by posters on this message board_. Exactly. This is and always has been largely about race, and this is being seen as a victory for racists by the racists; despite people being in denial about it. ---
**Author:** ![Yadi\_Dipietra\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d26b3c/32.png) [@Yadi\_Dipietra\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yadi_Dipietra_1)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2103 "2013-07-14T12:41:50Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > … > … Narcissists believe they are always right, everyone is always wrong, \*\*and they are a perpetual victim of circumstance. \*\* So, by your definition and logic, technically all black people (except the rich or affluent ones) are narcissistic when they ramble on about being kept down by \* the man \*? I think we finally understand you now. It’s too bad the jury didn’t have your footnotes to hand. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > My comment wasn’t in response to the trial, it was in response to the claim that liberals are more hateful than everyone else. When the staple message of your foundation is tolerance, and yet you exhibit as little or even less then your enemies … it smacks of hypocrisy. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Exactly. This is and always has been largely about race, and this is being seen as a victory for racists by the racists; despite people being in denial about it. Well then, I guess this makes it even for the racists (think OJ). ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2104 "2013-07-14T12:59:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > My comment wasn’t in response to the trial, it was in response to the claim that liberals are more hateful than everyone else. > > Exactly. This is and always has been largely about race, and this is being seen as a victory for racists by the racists; despite people being in denial about it. If you _had_ paid attention to the trial, you would have seen the testimony from Martin’s girlfriend, which shows _he_ was racist. This is a victory for law and order, and a loss for the racists who think all white people (and the not-white Zimmerman) want to murder black people, and that any killing of a black person is automatically murder, and requires revenge. You are clearly anti-white. The self hating must be terribly unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2105 "2013-07-14T13:14:36Z")
I wonder if those that think this was about race and that the result was a miscarriage of justice have a specific problem with the jury and their deliberative process in this trial. Frankly, reports of their attentiveness and questioning gave me some comfort that Travon’s rights were of utmost concern and that all considerations were being met to insure justice would be served. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2106 "2013-07-14T13:36:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > True. But after the defense attorney’s closing statement asking the jurors (which was quite a bit of hutzpa, and risky, if you ask me) that he’s not just asking them to find Zimmerman not guilty, but to find him innocent, that’s as close to “innocent” as a jury trial can get. Well, yeah, but in that it’s no closer than any other “not guilty” verdict. It’s not like the defense attorney said, “If you have even the slightest doubt that my client is innocent, go ahead and vote guilty.” Likely it was just a rhetorical flourish and appeal to emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2107 "2013-07-14T13:42:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > True. But after the defense attorney’s closing statement asking the jurors (which was quite a bit of hutzpa, and risky, if you ask me) that he’s not just asking them to find Zimmerman not guilty, but to find him innocent, that’s as close to “innocent” as a jury trial can get. It’s chutzpah. The ch means more phlegm. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2108 "2013-07-14T13:50:19Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The only answer from this is self-defense? No. But that’s not what I said. I was responding to this: > [@Mosier](#): > > If anyone could have claimed self defense, it was Martin, not the guy with the gun who was literally recorded pursuing an unarmed man for no reason. Mossier says if anyone could have claimed self-defense, it was not Zimmerman. I say that’s not true – that the evidence allows another inference, too. In other words, the evidence does not say that only Martin could claim self-defense. You agree, right? There is no “only” answer from the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2109 "2013-07-14T13:53:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Are federal charges coming up the pike? Perhaps Zimmerman should start looking for political asylum in Latin America. 1. DOJ investigated a year or so ago and said it couldn’t find any evidence of Zimmerman’s “racism”. 2. Under what statute do you think Zimmerman can be charged? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2110 "2013-07-14T13:53:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s chutzpah. The ch means more phlegm. “It’s ‘chutzpah’,” Tom said phlegmatically. Oops, wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2111 "2013-07-14T13:55:24Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > It’s chutzpah. The ch means more phlegm. LOL yes, I am a Hebrew/Yiddish speaker. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2112 "2013-07-14T13:55:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Well, yeah, but in that it’s no closer than any other “not guilty” verdict. It’s not like the defense attorney said, “If you have even the slightest doubt that my client is innocent, go ahead and vote guilty.” Likely it was just a rhetorical flourish and appeal to emotion. Correct. This verdict simply means that this jury found Zimmerman not guilty as a matter of fact. For all we know, all six members of the jury left the courthouse convinced that Zimmerman most likely was never in any fear of serious injury…but there was a reasonable doubt otherwise. And with that reasonable doubt in the mix, they voted not guilty. And for all we know, those six jurors were outraged at the frivolous prosecution of a clearly innocent man. We have absolutely no way to discern where on the scale they fell. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2113 "2013-07-14T14:05:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If you _had_ paid attention to the trial, you would have seen the testimony from Martin’s girlfriend, which shows _he_ was racist. > > This is a victory for law and order, and a loss for the racists who think all white people (and the not-white Zimmerman) want to murder black people, and that any killing of a black person is automatically murder, and requires revenge. > > You are clearly anti-white. The self hating must be terribly unpleasant. I would agree. There was no evidence GZ was racist. But there was certainly evidence TM was a bigot (and possibly racist) with his cracker comment. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2114 "2013-07-14T14:27:19Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Not at the trial, no. However, if he goes for an immunity hearing, he will have to prove his innocence. Should he win _that_, there would be an innocent verdict - although based on the evidence from the trial it’s far from clear he would win. Yes, but only by preponderance of the evidence. > [@](#): > > …when such a claim is raised, the trial court must determine whether the defendant has shown by a preponderance of the evidence that the immunity attaches. Quoting Peterson v. State, 983 So.2d 27 (Fla. DCA 2008). There is no judicial vehicle I know of that would permit a finding of “innocent beyond a reasonable doubt.” So the best he can do, officially, is show he’s slightly more likely to be innocent than not. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2115 "2013-07-14T14:27:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Because while I’m many things, stupid isn’t one of them. Best to keep my mouth shut. I guess you don’t have much faith in your friends and colleagues. Seems like a pretty sad life hiding your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2116 "2013-07-14T14:37:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 1. DOJ investigated a year or so ago and said it couldn’t find any evidence of Zimmerman’s “racism”. > > 2. Under what statute do you think Zimmerman can be charged? Doesn’t the federal statute require state participation (or conspiracy with a state participant) in order to be covered? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2117 "2013-07-14T14:40:27Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Doesn’t the federal statute require state participation (or conspiracy with a state participant) in order to be covered? ETA: What’s the point of an immunity hearing if Z has to prove beyond a preponderance that he didn’t do it? He would have exactly that same standard at a wrongful death lawsuit. Seems like 6 of one and half dozen of the other. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2118 "2013-07-14T15:00:28Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > ETA: What’s the point of an immunity hearing if Z has to prove beyond a preponderance that he didn’t do it? He would have exactly that same standard at a wrongful death lawsuit. Seems like 6 of one and half dozen of the other. It would mean he also had immunity from prosecution and arrest, so might have standing to sue the state and the police for arresting and trying him. Apart from preventing _any_ lawsuits against him that could end up costing him vast amounts of money, even if they are unsuccessful. Ultimately, he has plenty to gain and not much to lose by attempting to gain immunity. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2119 "2013-07-14T15:18:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nope. He is absolutely not immune, at present, to any civil suit. It seems like he could be at any time he wishes, though. [Florida Immunity Statute](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.032.html) Does it not? Doesn’t it also say that whomever brings a civil lawsuit would be liable for expenses? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2120 "2013-07-14T15:19:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > It would mean he also had immunity from prosecution and arrest, so might have standing to sue the state and the police for arresting and trying him. Apart from preventing _any_ lawsuits against him that could end up costing him vast amounts of money, even if they are unsuccessful. > > Ultimately, he has plenty to gain and not much to lose by attempting to gain immunity. I’m not familiar with the immunity provision, but it would allow him to recoup costs and damages for his arrest and trial against the state? That’s an amazingly generous state waiver of immunity, if true. Plus, he wouldn’t have to defend multiple wrongful death lawsuits. Once he wins the first one, the rest would be barred by res judicata. And he would presumably have the same expenses in the immunity hearing as he would in the wrongful death lawsuit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=107)