# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/201 "2013-06-27T10:30:24Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The redirect with Dee Dee is fascinating. Trayvon’s dad and mother had quite the adventure trying to get Dee Dee to come forward. They thought she was a minor and were trying to reach her mom (who was out of the country). They had a heck of a time getting this girl to meet with the Martin’s attorney. Meanwhile the Keystone cops were clueless. > > I never realized what a cluster fuck it was getting ahold of the person Trayvon was talking too just before he was killed. All of which could have been avoided if she’d phoned the police herself, ideally at the point that she suspected that a fight was happening between her boyfriend and some “creepy ass cracker”. Failing that, at any point after she realised her boyfriend had been murdered minutes after talking to her. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/202 "2013-06-27T10:47:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Once again I agree with Dee Dee that the cops should have identified her much quicker. She even mentioned \*The First 48 \*and Attorney West just looked at her blankly. The homicide detectives always look at the recent numbers dialed from a victim’s cell phone. I’ve seen homicide cops from at least six different cities follow that procedure on _The First 48_. It’s just common sense that you’d check up on recent calls from a cell phone. Yet, the cops didn’t find out about Dee Dee for several weeks. Trayvon’s dad was the one that tracked down Dee Dee. Martin’s phone was locked, and then discharged. Eventually, they needed a specialist’s assistance to unlock the phone and get at its contents. IIRC, they needed family’s permission to get phone co’s records, and didn’t get it for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/203 "2013-06-27T10:49:51Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I understand now why the Martin’s Attorney, Crump is on the witness list. It’s very unusual that he found a witness that the cops didn’t know about. So he’ll be part of this trial. > > The cell phone records confirm Dee Dee’s phone conversations with Trayvon. But Crump still needs to testify about his involvement in the case and how Dee Dee was found. Crump needs to explain why he sat on it for weeks (if not months) without notifying the police about it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/204 "2013-06-27T10:52:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > All of which could have been avoided if she’d phoned the police herself, ideally at the point that she suspected that a fight was happening between her boyfriend and some “creepy ass cracker”. Failing that, at any point after she realised her boyfriend had been murdered minutes after talking to her. I hope West questions her about the “just a fight” thing that she expressed both in the testimony yesterday and in her letter to Sabrina. That indicates that having fights like that was normal for Martin, not a cause for concern, and nothing to worry about for her, since she only tried to call him back once. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/205 "2013-06-27T11:12:55Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Something else occurred to me. She was nervous and who knows how much she was lying, I don’t. But, maybe that all affected her ability to communicate well; however, I think there was another factor here… > > It is not that hard for most blacks to ‘code switch’. But a young nervous girl may have a hard time in this situation because the questioner wants her to retell exactly what was said between her and Trayvon. That is going to be a challenge for the poor girl, because she doesn’t really feel confident speaking the exact way some black people speak to each other when we are alone. The slang can get thick as hell, really, and it is going to be difficult for a young scared girl to really relate it to a room full of people who she thinks won’t understand. So she is trying to on the fly translate some of how they were talking, mumbling in her effort to translate some of the heavier black dialect and slang so that her audience will understand. I am having a hard time myself, trying to explain this. > > ETA: It struck me hardest when she had to relay things like ‘creepy ass cracka’. And especially when she said, “He said that nigga is following me” or whatever. She struggled with that so much, because she knew that white people don’t really know that we call whites nigga too, the same way we call each other nigga. She knew it would seem weird and the defense would ask her to repeat it, and she was just bracing for all of that, and feeling overwhelmed and nervous about it all. Just my take on it, anyway. Good post. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/206 "2013-06-27T11:43:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > She didn’t grasp the time difference at all. so either she’s lying about something or there is no time gap enroute to the mailboxes. Either way there is a huge gap in time unaccounted for by Martin. ‘Time gap’? Why is there a ‘time gap’, and how is that even remotely relevant? Whether he sat outside the 7-11 for 30 minutes before he started walking, whether he took up macramé in the interim, or whether he started walking backwards while whistling Yankee Doodle Dandy is of zero relevance to how Zimmerman ended up shooting him. If you think his actions in the interim 30-40 minutes are relevant, it means you think the actions and movements of Zimmerman for that same period are also relevant. I don’t see anyone clamoring for George to give evidence as to what he was doing at 6:45pm that evening. Martin meandered towards home while talking on and off with Dee Dee. I certainly did that when I was a teenager, and I definitely didn’t want to hold entire converstations with a girl in front of my siblings etc. Besides, who gives a second-by-second and inch-by-inch account of exactly where you are when talking on the phone while walking? > [@](#): > > That indicates that having fights like that was normal for Martin, not a cause for concern, and nothing to worry about for her, since she only tried to call him back once. Or it could mean that she thought it was just a skuffle and not serious precisely because Martin wasn’t known to be in big fights. And she knew he was going to watch the All-Star Game, so not a big deal if he didn’t answer. The idea that she ‘knew’ or ‘should have known’ this was a big deal is ridiculous. > [@](#): > > All of which could have been avoided if she’d phoned the police herself, ideally at the point that she suspected that a fight was happening between her boyfriend and some “creepy ass cracker”. Why in the world would she call the police, especially when she said she didn’t think it was all that serious? How would she even know what police department number to call? How would she know what address Martin was at? Remember, the guy that actually did call NEN didn’t even know the name of the street he was on and he LIVES THERE, for fuck’s sake. Why should she call the police in any event? She said she heard Martin was dead but that they had the guy that shot him. She doesn’t know who she’d even call, since she’s not in the area of the shooting. Completetely understandable if she figured the case was wrapped up, and the cops would get in touch with her if they thought they needed her info; they had her info on the phone, right? Dee Dee was pretty much a waste of time as a witness, but the idea that she’s covering up some crucial, secret information is just stupid. Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/207 "2013-06-27T11:54:17Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Dee Dee was pretty much a waste of time as a witness, but the idea that she’s covering up some crucial, secret information is just stupid. Stupid. My post was in response to the idea that the police fucked up by not finding her earlier. She didn’t exactly go out of her way to make herself known to them, or to report a crime she suspected was occurring, and (as you’d know if you’d followed the case) it took them a long time to access Martin’s phone. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/208 "2013-06-27T11:57:31Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Good post. It was, and it’s something of a shame (and I mean this sincerely) that the prosecution didn’t find a way to get Deedee to express this, and to explain her difficulties communicating in what is, effectively, two languages at once. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/209 "2013-06-27T12:37:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > My post was in response to the idea that the police fucked up by not finding her earlier. She didn’t exactly go out of her way to make herself known to them, or to report a crime she suspected was occurring, and (as you’d know if you’d followed the case) it took them a long time to access Martin’s phone. A) evidence that she thought a crime was occuring? B) Plenty of people (law-abiding or otherwise) are hesitant to get involved with the police, especially if they assume the cops will get in touch if needed, and c) yes, I know it took the cops a long time to access Martin’s phone. How is that relevant to Dee Dee? That they didn’t get in touch may well have only reinforced her belief that they didn’t need her info. I should point out that I missed a big chunk of her cross yesterday, so I don’t know if she said something that contradicts any of the above. I believe Dee Dee speaks a Haitian dialect of English? I also wish the State would have made that more clear… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/210 "2013-06-27T12:40:09Z")
I think a combination of emotion, youth, and cultural context explains a lot of her demeanor and some of the disparity in her testimony. But I also think it’s pretty clear that she will fudge the truth when it suits her emotionally, as she admitted doing on two (irrelevant) occasions and where the same pressures applied to the (actually relevant) conflicting testimony about what Zimmerman said. That’s not some kind of personal insult; it just means she’s not an especially reliable witness. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/211 "2013-06-27T13:00:35Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > A) evidence that she thought a crime was occuring? B) Plenty of people (law-abiding or otherwise) are hesitant to get involved with the police, especially if they assume the cops will get in touch if needed, and c) yes, I know it took the cops a long time to access Martin’s phone. How is that relevant to Dee Dee? That they didn’t get in touch may well have only reinforced her belief that they didn’t need her info. At the very least, she knew she was the last person to talk to Martin, except possibly Zimmerman. The unwillingness of people to contact the police is part of the problem here, and in my opinion part of what got Martin killed. If he had gone home and called the police (not necessarily in that order), he would almost certainly still be alive today. I just don’t understand the mindset of not calling the police about your murdered boyfriend. > [@](#): > > I believe Dee Dee speaks a Haitian dialect of English? I also wish the State would have made that more clear… I didn’t recognise the dialect, but in the small portion of the questioning I saw, she was switching between dialects (as **Nzinga** pointed out). I was surprised by how little the lawyers on her side were doing to help her communicate, although I guess they have an obligation not to lead the witness too much. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/212 "2013-06-27T13:13:52Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I believe Dee Dee speaks a Haitian dialect of English? I also wish the State would have made that more clear… DeeDee was born in Miami and lived all of her life there. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/213 "2013-06-27T13:15:57Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > DeeDee was born in Miami and lived all of her life there. And therefore she wouldn’t speak a Haitian dialect of English? Is this a claim based on your knowledge of the sociolinguistics of Miami? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/214 "2013-06-27T13:20:56Z")
What is the evidence that she does speak Haitian dialect? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/215 "2013-06-27T13:28:45Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > At the very least, she knew she was the last person to talk to Martin, except possibly Zimmerman. The unwillingness of people to contact the police is part of the problem here, and in my opinion part of what got Martin killed. If he had gone home and called the police (not necessarily in that order), he would almost certainly still be alive today. > > I just don’t understand the mindset of not calling the police about your murdered boyfriend. These are teenagers you’re talking about. Kids. They’re not known for good judgement. Also, they’re _black_ teenagers. There’s a cultural element here, an ingrained (and logical) distrust of the police. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/216 "2013-06-27T13:53:59Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > … How would she even know what police department number to call? How would she know what address Martin was at? Remember, the guy that actually did call NEN didn’t even know the name of the street he was on and he LIVES THERE, for fuck’s sake. … 9-1-1 works, even in Miami. If you are reporting an incident outside the jurisdiction of the call center that answers the call then they should, in accordance with established norms for the industry, attempt to assist the caller in making the report to the responsible agency. It is a fair point that DeeDee may have not had enough information herself about Trayvon Martin’s location to provide meaningful assistance to police in attempting to locate an incident in progress. George Zimmerman not knowing the name of the street he was on puts him in good company with the approximately 40% of callers who are unable to provide a street address\*. Because he called the non-emergency number it may not have been technically possible for the call taker to use some of the technology used to locate cell phone callers that some 9-1-1 centers have. - Again, based upon my experience working in a 9-1-1 center in another jurisdiction. Many callers cannot even provide their own home address. This is a VERY common and frustrating issue that is repeated multiple times per day, every day. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/217 "2013-06-27T15:22:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I understand now why the Martin’s Attorney, Crump is on the witness list. It’s very unusual that he found a witness that the cops didn’t know about. So he’ll be part of this trial. > > The cell phone records confirm Dee Dee’s phone conversations with Trayvon. But Crump still needs to testify about his involvement in the case and how Dee Dee was found. This was the subject of an appellate decision. I’m on my phone, and the best I can manage is a PDF link. [Opinions Archive - Fifth District Court of Appeal](http://www.5dca.org/Opinions/Opin2013/060313/5D13-1233.op.pdf). [Warning PDF] The court permitted the deposition of the lawyer as to the “substance of the interview” and the “circumstances surrounding the interview” on the grounds that a) the Martin family lawyer was not opposing counsel in the case, so this was not work product for use at trial, and b) privilege was waived when 2 members of the media were invited to join, who leaked info about what she said. But the court said that the pre-trial deposition could not touch on the lawyer’s reasons for locating DD or the “methods used to do so”, or his mental impressions, or why he conducted the interview the way he did. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/218 "2013-06-27T16:02:00Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What is the evidence that she does speak Haitian dialect? > > Regards, > Shodan Was noted at least twice in court yesterday. I believe her family emigrated from Haiti, IIRC. > [@](#): > > George Zimmerman not knowing the name of the street he was on puts him in good company with the approximately 40% of callers who are unable to provide a street address\*. Well, George wasn’t exactly just any other caller, was he - he was the neighborhood watch captain, he had made numerous calls from the area in the past, and in fact had correctly given the name of the streets in question in previous calls. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/219 "2013-06-27T16:56:38Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Well, George wasn’t exactly just any other caller, was he - he was the neighborhood watch captain, he had made numerous calls from the area in the past, and in fact had correctly given the name of the streets in question in previous calls. I didn’t find that credible either. I know the name of the street I live on and just doing a quick rundown in my mind, I know the names of several cross streets in each direction. Nine in total. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/220 "2013-06-27T17:18:32Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > ‘Time gap’? Why is there a ‘time gap’, and how is that even remotely relevant? Whether he sat outside the 7-11 for 30 minutes before he started walking, whether he took up macramé in the interim, or whether he started walking backwards while whistling Yankee Doodle Dandy is of zero relevance to how Zimmerman ended up shooting him. > > If you think his actions in the interim 30-40 minutes are relevant, it means you think the actions and movements of Zimmerman for that same period are also relevant. I don’t see anyone clamoring for George to give evidence as to what he was doing at 6:45pm that evening. > > Martin meandered towards home while talking on and off with Dee Dee. I certainly did that when I was a teenager, and I definitely didn’t want to hold entire converstations with a girl in front of my siblings etc. Besides, who gives a second-by-second and inch-by-inch account of exactly where you are when talking on the phone while walking? The time gap is Dee Dee’s to explain. Her testimony is that he went from the store to the mailboxes. Directly. She could not explain the 46 minute time involved and was confused or evasive over it. So Martin may have been knitting or he may have been looking at houses. Since there were no knitting needles found We know it wasn’t knitting. We do know he wasn’t in a particularly big hurry to lean back and enjoy the game. If he’s taking all this time to walk through the neighborhood then it would appear to someone who saw him that he was “walking around looking at houses”. His pace would have been about 1 mph which is 1/4 the normal walking speed. And walking 2 miles in the rain seems like a lot of effort for one can of fruit juice and some candy and that was suppose to be for his future step brother. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Or it could mean that she thought it was just a skuffle and not serious precisely because Martin wasn’t known to be in big fights. And she knew he was going to watch the All-Star Game, so not a big deal if he didn’t answer. The idea that she ‘knew’ or ‘should have known’ this was a big deal is ridiculous. Based on her earlier testimony she said she was in fear for Trayvon’s life because of Zimmerman. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Why in the world would she call the police, especially when she said she didn’t think it was all that serious? How would she even know what police department number to call? How would she know what address Martin was at? Remember, the guy that actually did call NEN didn’t even know the name of the street he was on and he LIVES THERE, for fuck’s sake. > > Why should she call the police in any event? Because a normal person would call the police if they believed their friend’s phone was cut off after a confrontation with a stranger who was following him. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Dee Dee was pretty much a waste of time as a witness, but the idea that she’s covering up some crucial, secret information is just stupid. Stupid. Why is the idea that she’s covering up something regarding Martin stupid? what if she knew why he took so long. What if she knew Martin was heading back toward Zimmerman? Martin’s dead and she would be putting him in a bad light. Did you ever consider WHY she was so reluctant to work with his parents? Bringing Zimmerman down would seem the natural desire on her part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=12)