# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 120
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2381 "2013-07-17T04:27:11Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > No, not end! You forget the best, craziest, least believeable and strangest part: after the shot (virtual point blank range, remember) Trayvon stits up, says “you got me” falls over on his face, and _ **GZ doesn’t think he hit him** _:eek:😕:rolleyes::dubious::eek:😕 and THEN climbs onto Martin’s BACK, and spreads his arms apart to “restrain” him and look for weapons… and Martin is found with his arms under him. > > THAT is the most insane, ridiculous, do you think we are fucking morons part that NO ONE has tackled. Not one of the GZ apologists has even tried to explain how all that could be true. > > Cuz they can’t. > > Cuz it’s lame and completely unbelievable. > > And that means that Zimmy lied to cover something he did that would make it a slam dunk sure thing that he killed that boy and knew what he’d done was legally indefensible. It’s been explained repeatedly to you how it _could_ be true. Martin could have moved his arms back after Zimmerman moved off from him. You, however, have yet to explain why it matters if it’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2382 "2013-07-17T04:59:28Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > This is fucked up. There are a fuck of a lot of assumptions but the fact is a child is dead and the. Guy with the gun won’t take responsibility THAT is shameful no matter what the fucked up law says. If Tray was a 17 year old white kid GZ would be in jail. People hiding behind a bad law are as cowardly as Zimmerman. And don’t give me the line a out a 17 year old kid a 26 year old who wanted to be a policeman and was in shape at the time he murdered Tray > wouldn’t be scary to a high school kid Jeantel testified that after TM had lost the creepy ass cracker, this high school kid was by his daddy fiance house. TM then returned over 300 feet back to the “T” area where GZ was and punched GZ in the nose. That doesn’t sound like TM was scared of GZ. It sounds more like TM was angry and wanted to punish/hurt the creepy ass cracker. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2383 "2013-07-17T05:03:36Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > If Tray was a 17 year old white kid GZ would be in jail. No, if Martin was a white kid, there never would have been a trial, because there would have been no uproar when the police department refused to arrest Zimmerman, and no special prosecutor appointed. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2384 "2013-07-17T05:18:39Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Agreed, a push or grab wouldn’t leave much sign in any case. Then again, that raises the question of whether a push or grab can reasonably be responded to with a sustained pinning and beating. > > I think that says it nicely. Oh, THAT ‘sustained pinning and beating’…:dubious: It happened AFTER the time gz beat up a cop, who he claimed that he didnt know was a cop (despite the fact the officer stated he took out his badge and identified himself as law enforcement, to which gz told him he didnt care who he was) and BEFORE he led the Judge to believe he only had $155.00 , when in fact he had 155,000 oh yea, THAT beating ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2385 "2013-07-17T05:20:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > No, if Martin was a white kid, there never would have been a trial, because there would have been no uproar when the police department refused to arrest Zimmerman, and no special prosecutor appointed. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2386 "2013-07-17T05:46:02Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > What part specifically? > > It is doubtful the wound resulted in instant death. I think this was even testified to at trial. > > … After Z moved the arms, it is also possible that Martin’s last unconsciois act to prolong his ebbing life was to move his hands back toward the wound. > > Everything I stated is highly speculative but not completely outside the realm of possibility. Therefore suggesting Zimmerman’s account is lame and completely unbelieveable is a bit of a mischaracterization. > > I do still think Zimmerman created the situation, and bears moral if not legal culpability, but I’m not seeing the number of holes in his story that you are. > [@Steophan](#): > > It’s been explained repeatedly to you how it _could_ be true. Martin could have moved his arms back after Zimmerman moved off from him. > > You, however, have yet to explain why it matters if it’s not true. Ahem. Yeah, I’ve heard the strained speculation about the arms. But that is not the only issue, and I think you are perfectly aware of that. Even you find the rest of it so completely unbelievable that your pretzel logic fails to come up with anything to explain it. So you just…skip it. Pretend the only issue is the arms. And by skipping it, pretending it hasn’t come up, you affirm the fact that it is wholly unbelievable, illogical, irrational, implausible and outside even the most unlikely explanation, making it a lie. Or rather a series of lies hung on one big lie that needs other lies to hold it up. \*\*The shot and immediately after, According to George Zimmerman \*\* [ul] Martin is straddling GZ, leaning forward; GZ takes aim (his words) mere inches from Martin, the middle of his chest. (I believe the barrel was touching Martin’s clothing, or near enough?) Squeezes the trigger. Gun goes BOOM! and Zimmerman surely felt and heard the bullet leave the chamber. **THEN…** [li]Martin sits up, says something to the effect of “you got me”[/li][li]Martin keels over onto his face into the grass.[/li][li]GZ has to wriggle out from under the keeled over Martin. [/li][li]GZ climbs onto Martin’s back, pulls arms to sides to search for weapons.[/li][li]During this, Good comes out, offers to call 911, GZ says no, don’t, the police are already coming, I need you to help me restrain this guy.[/li][/ul] George Zimmerman has explained that _ **he did not think he had hit Martin.** _ George Zimmerman wants us to believe that when that bullet left that chamber directly in front of him and right in the middle of Martin’s chest, when Martin said ( :rolleyes: ) “you got me”, when Martin keeled over onto his face, when Martin suddenly failed to even struggle after being a superhuman attack monster for the previous 3-5 minutes, so insanely violent that GZ had to shoot, that George Zimmerman \*\*\*did not think he had hit him. \*\*\* When GZ shot him from inches away, dead center, **George didn’t think he’d hit him** When Martin said “you got me”, **George didn’t think he hit him** When Martin slumped over onto his face in the grass, **George didn’t think he hit him.** When suddenly, immediately following the shot, Martin stopped all forms of smothering, punching, headbanging, **George didn’t think he hit him.** **Because he didn’t think he hit him** , George thought he should climb onto his back and “restrain him”. **Because he didn’t think he hit him,** George didn’t think it was necessary to call 911 for medical services. (Also didn’t see the need for medical services for himself, apparently… ) Care to take a shot at why we are supposed to believe that **George Zimmerman didn’t think he’d hit[** Trayvon Martin when he shot him at nearly point blank range in the middle of the chest and Martin immediately collapsed exactly the way a shooting victim would? Do _ **YOU** _ believe it? If you do, why? What about that makes the slightest bit of sense to you? Do you think he “misremembered” believing he had not hit Martin and simply imagined everything else? (Well, not everything, he was seen on Martin’s back so we know he did do that). If you have, in your own mind stopped and considered the complete ridiculousness of this and arrived at an answer that you believe is believable, please share it. Or if you have a plausible reason Zimmerman would lie that does not damn Zimmerman as being fully aware of his wrongdoing AND explains the real reason he got on Martin’s back (since, if he lied about not thinking he’d hit him, climbing on the mortally wounded Martin’s back was a _ **seriously** _ fucked up thing to be doing for _ **any** _ reason at all) and the real reason he told Good not to call 911 because only the police were on their way, please fill me in. Fill us all in. Please. And… good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2387 "2013-07-17T05:49:27Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I am confused and need my ignorance fought. How did Zimmerman’s defense of self-defense differ from the “stand your ground” law that this case was initially supposed to hinge on? The media lied to you. O’Mara originally stated this was a case of self-defense. While he explored every legal option available to him, he never said this was anything but a case of self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2388 "2013-07-17T06:21:36Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I simply don’t buy the injury/threat ratio. The trial defense never asked the jury to. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I don’t like the evidence that he never fought back. so? The evidence is what it is. That you can’t except Martin had no marks on him doesn’t change it as fact. Apparently you don’t understand the advantage of being on top. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I don’t like the presumption that Trayvon was a killing machine. The trial defense never asked the jury to accept that. They asked the jury to accept that Martin attacked Zimmerman, for over 38 seconds and that a struggle for a gun ensued which ended the assault. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I don’t like the idea that he saw a gun and kept “pounding GZ’s head into the pavement” rather than a human instinctive reaction to fight over the weapon. Why should you have to like it? Your premise was never made by Zimmerman. Per Zimmerman the gun was exposed after the 38+ seconds of beating and there WAS a struggle for it. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Trayvon had a great weapon in his pocket. A solid can of iced tea that would rival a maglite. But when he allegedly approached GZ he kept it in his pocket. He never took it out to bludgeon GZ? He may have used it. Zimmerman stated he thought Martin had something in his hand when he was hitting him. It was his reason for searching Martin. Howeve, a can of fruit juice is not like a maglite. It’s made of thin aluminum and flexes under load. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I am happy Zimmeran was able to yell seemingly unincumbered for 40 seconds as TM suffocated him. TM was smothering GZ’s face yet never got a bite mark or blood or DNA on his hands. Nothing. Zimmerman never claimed he was suffocated for 30 seconds. or 20 seconds. or 10 seconds. So Zimmerman is happy that you’re happy? You do realize he testified that he was screaming for help before knowing it was recorded on a 911 call don’t you? He testified for 5 hours and made a video without a lawyer and the evidence that trickled in after that was consistent with his account. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Trayvon must have been the worst attacker in world history to do that little damage when presented with a defenseless opponent. Should I quote someone you would believe that injuries can occur with little blood? [/quote] > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Zimmerman thought he missed with the point blank gun shot? Ok. per the coroner Martin’s body cavity was full of blood which meant his heart kept beating. So unless he falls dead over it’s a reasonable conclusion to make. How long do you think that realization lasted? 5 seconds? > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I hate the idea that after GZ spread TM’s lifeless arms out. Then Trayvon lifted himself up and tucked his arms in underneath. what do you hate about it? If you’re hurt what do you do with your hands? I can’t think of a more obvious thing to do than to grab the affected area. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Zimmerman is so full of shit I am glad he never got any of it on Trayvon. No Zimmerman bullshit DNA on Trayvon. None. nothing but his testimony and eye witnesses that said it happened. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Let’s not even mention the defenses “4 minutes of silence” where nobody knows where either of these young men were. GZ certainly didn’t retreat with 4 minutes to walk a maximum of 200 feet back to his car. No, GZ was an angel! He was within his statutory rights. He was approached out of the bushes or darkness or something. He had no choice. retreat from what exactly? Martin was at his house and George was 300 feet away from him walking toward his vehicle. So yes, he was “approached or something”. Based on the Evidence Martin was the one stalking someone at that point. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > When Trayvon finally said something to break the awkward silence (including the word “Homie”) GZ said only “I don’t have a problem”. what awkward silence? > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Then the idiot, rather than announce who he was or in some other way extend a civil coversation, reached into his pocket for something. Zimmerman never said a single thing to diffuse the kid’s idea of what was happening to him. All of this supposes GZ’s account of the meeting. how do you have a civilized conversation when someone sucker punches you in the nose? How does that work exactly? The idiot would be the person who attacked someone instead of calling the police. That would be the same person who called Zimmerman a crazy ass-cracker. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Still, to me, the most amazing fact is a kid, the only person on the scene without a violent arrest record, became the uncontrollable wild animal who tried to kill a stranger forno reason. Nobody was around to witness TM’s potential “ego blow” as Zimmerman fans like to suggest. Zimmerman doesn’t have a violent arrest record. Martin on the other hand, was suspended from school for fighting. It’s the reason he was living with his father. His mother could no longer control him. He talked about fighting in his text messages and his girl friend told him he would end up with a bullet in the chest. So while you as an internet psychic know better, his family and friends were all mistaken. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > He killed the “fucking punk”. Yes, he killed the person who left his house and walked back and assaulting him. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > He killed a kid who without a doubt wasn’t out that early evening to get anything but snacks. Trayvon Martin will now and forever be known in law as the kid who attacked GZ for no reason. yes, the person who walked 2 miles in the rain to get one can of fruit drink and one bag of candy for his step brother decided to take the law in his hands and attack someone he though was suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2389 "2013-07-17T07:22:08Z")
I would guess he didn’t think he hit him at first because Martin didn’t act as he expected he would. If, like most people, Zimmerman’s main knowledge of gunshot wounds comes from Hollywood, he expected him to fly backwards and bleed massively. Since many of you are taking your belief that he died instantly from the same source, it’s hardly implausible. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2390 "2013-07-17T08:11:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I would guess he didn’t think he hit him at first because Martin didn’t act as he expected he would. If, like most people, Zimmerman’s main knowledge of gunshot wounds comes from Hollywood, he expected him to fly backwards and bleed massively. Since many of you are taking your belief that he died instantly from the same source, it’s hardly implausible. Skip and a jump and poof! First: I don’t know what anyone else believes, but I have no conviction that Martin died instantly. However “not being dead” and “acting, talking breathing, thinking exactly like a person who has _ **not** _ been hit in the lung and heart with a bullet at close range” are miles and miles apart. And obviously “hit” and “killed” are different. Your peculation is that Zimmerman thought people who have been killed instantly act a certain way, and Martin didn’t act like someone who had been killed instantly. But that is not what Zimmerman said. He said he didn’t think he’d HIT Martin. He didn’t think the \*\*\*bullet entered Martins body from inches away aimed dead center. \*\*\*:dubious: Further, unless you can find a statement from Zimmerman to the contrary, my memory (which is imperfect, certainly) is that Zimmerman stated that he didn’t know he’d\*\*\* HIT \*\*\*Martin until, at the very earliest, the police turned over the body, and my imperfect memory tells me that he didn’t know he’d _ **KILLED** _ him until after he had gone to the police station. So while you slipped in that little “at first”, there’s no “at first” about all the way to the point of the police turning over the body. So whatever you _fantasize_ Zimmerman _fantasized_ about how a person shot in the lung and heart would act, the way Martin actually reacted was not consistent with the behavior of a person who has _ **not** _ been shot at all. If Zimmerman sincerely thought his bullet missed from a few inches away, at dead center, he is clearly too mentally impaired to be allowed out without a keeper, never mind being allowed out with a loaded gun. While your thin guess based on nothing is better than ignoring the issue altogether, it is a complete fail. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2391 "2013-07-17T08:19:47Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > To add to Stoid’s response I will jump in with the following. > > Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman. The evidence supports this. Zimmerman’s interviews says this. All good. > > Trayvon was bashing Zimmerman’s head in. Ok. > > GZ says Trayvon saw the gun. Not exactly clear on the mechanics of that. > > GZ says when he saw the gun Trayvon’s first instinct was to announce “your gonna die tonight, MFer”. Wow, TM must be a killing machine. > > Then, GZ says Trayvon made a move for the gun and either touched it or wasn’t fast enough. > > GZ says he got the gun (from underneath himsel)f before Trayvon had a chance. > > GZ apparently got the gun first because Trayvon was too busy “bashing” Zimmerman’s head into the concrete to be bothered by the gun he saw and announced he was going to use to kill GZ with and made an attempt to grab. Nope, Trayvon was content beating Zimmerman very ineffectively. Kids these days! > > Then, after GZ miraculously gets the gun he fires immediately. This happened. > > Trayvon dies like Hedey Lamarr at the end of Blazing Saddles. > > End scene. Ok, what is the evidence that Zimmerman had his gun holstered in a position which would have been unaccessable if he were on his back? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2392 "2013-07-17T08:22:14Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The biggest one is the story of the altercation. Again you are not answering my question (which is fine, I did not ask it of you. But please stop pretending that you are answering it). You are taking a lot of issues you have with Zimmerman’s story and referring the entire group of them as a “hole.” That’s not what I am asking for. I am asking what the biggest single inconsistency, implausibility, gap, or what have you is. Since you are unable to name one, I assume you concede that there is no single large hole in his story. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2393 "2013-07-17T08:28:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You do realize he testified that he was screaming for help before knowing it was recorded on a 911 call don’t you? He testified for 5 hours and made a video without a lawyer and the evidence that trickled in after that was consistent with his account. What exactly do you think this means? He knew Martin was screaming, he knew people heard it, the 911 recording was just extra. He knew there was no way he could say it was self-defense if he didn’t claim it was him screaming: “yeah, the kid who was beating me up was screaming bloody murder and I had to kill him to save myself - I have no idea why he was screaming like that!” Which is why he started telling people right off the bat that it was him. He also was present for everything else that happened and knew exactly what he had to cover in case it was seen or heard by neighbors to sell his self-defense story. > [@](#): > > per the coroner Martin’s body cavity was full of blood which meant his heart kept beating. So unless he falls dead over it’s a reasonable conclusion to make. How long do you think that realization lasted? 5 seconds? A beating heart is not the same as someone _ **not hit** _ by the bullet. That was shot from inches away. Dead center. And Martin DID keel over. After stating out loud (supposedly) “you got me”. And Zimmerman claims he didn’t know he’d hit him at all \*\*\*until the police got there. \*\*\* > [@](#): > > If you’re hurt what do you do with your hands? I can’t think of a more obvious thing to do than to grab the affected area. Really? _ **After** _ a 200 pound guy has been sitting on your back, on your collapsed lungs, on your heart with a bullet in it, for however long. You are still alive, still conscious, and still able to draw both arms under your body. Yeah, right. Sure. Absolutely. Man, the contortions you go through to hang on to believing are stunning. Really stunning. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2394 "2013-07-17T08:31:31Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Ahem. Yeah, I’ve heard the strained speculation about the arms. But that is not the only issue, and I think you are perfectly aware of that. Even you find the rest of it so completely unbelievable that your pretzel logic fails to come up with anything to explain it. So you just…skip it. Pretend the only issue is the arms. > > And by skipping it, pretending it hasn’t come up, you affirm the fact that it is wholly unbelievable, illogical, irrational, implausible and outside even the most unlikely explanation, making it a lie. Or rather a series of lies hung on one big lie that needs other lies to hold it up. > > \*\*The shot and immediately after, According to George Zimmerman > \*\* > [ul] > Martin is straddling GZ, leaning forward; GZ takes aim (his words) mere inches from Martin, the middle of his chest. (I believe the barrel was touching Martin’s clothing, or near enough?) Squeezes the trigger. Gun goes BOOM! and Zimmerman surely felt and heard the bullet leave the chamber. > **THEN…** > [li]Martin sits up, says something to the effect of “you got me”[/li][li]Martin keels over onto his face into the grass.[/li][li]GZ has to wriggle out from under the keeled over Martin. [/li][li]GZ climbs onto Martin’s back, pulls arms to sides to search for weapons.[/li][li]During this, Good comes out, offers to call 911, GZ says no, don’t, the police are already coming, I need you to help me restrain this guy.[/li][/ul] > > George Zimmerman has explained that _ **he did not think he had hit Martin.** _ > > George Zimmerman wants us to believe that when that bullet left that chamber directly in front of him and right in the middle of Martin’s chest, when Martin said ( :rolleyes: ) “you got me”, when Martin keeled over onto his face, when Martin suddenly failed to even struggle after being a superhuman attack monster for the previous 3-5 minutes, so insanely violent that GZ had to shoot, that George Zimmerman \*\*\*did not think he had hit him. \*\*\* > > When GZ shot him from inches away, dead center, **George didn’t think he’d hit him** > When Martin said “you got me”, **George didn’t think he hit him** > When Martin slumped over onto his face in the grass, **George didn’t think he hit him.** > When suddenly, immediately following the shot, Martin stopped all forms of smothering, punching, headbanging, **George didn’t think he hit him.** > **Because he didn’t think he hit him** , George thought he should climb onto his back and “restrain him”. > **Because he didn’t think he hit him,** George didn’t think it was necessary to call 911 for medical services. (Also didn’t see the need for medical services for himself, apparently… ) > > Care to take a shot at why we are supposed to believe that **George Zimmerman didn’t think he’d hit[** Trayvon Martin when he shot him at nearly point blank range in the middle of the chest and Martin immediately collapsed exactly the way a shooting victim would? Do _ **YOU** _ believe it? If you do, why? What about that makes the slightest bit of sense to you? Do you think he “misremembered” believing he had not hit Martin and simply imagined everything else? (Well, not everything, he was seen on Martin’s back so we know he did do that). > > If you have, in your own mind stopped and considered the complete ridiculousness of this and arrived at an answer that you believe is believable, please share it. Or if you have a plausible reason Zimmerman would lie that does not damn Zimmerman as being fully aware of his wrongdoing AND explains the real reason he got on Martin’s back (since, if he lied about not thinking he’d hit him, climbing on the mortally wounded Martin’s back was a _ **seriously** _ fucked up thing to be doing for _ **any** _ reason at all) and the real reason he told Good not to call 911 because only the police were on their way, please fill me in. Fill us all in. Please. > > And… good luck with that. All of which is irrelevant. The only thing that counts is whether George thought he was in danger of being killed or maimed. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2395 "2013-07-17T08:32:52Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Again you are not answering my question (which is fine, I did not ask it of you. But please stop pretending that you are answering it). You are taking a lot of issues you have with Zimmerman’s story and referring the entire group of them as a “hole.” > > That’s not what I am asking for. I am asking what the biggest single inconsistency, implausibility, gap, or what have you is. > > Since you are unable to name one, I assume you concede that there is no single large hole in his story. First, there doesn’t need to be one single thing just because you want it. But I thought it was pretty obvious that I think his claim that he didn’t think he’d hit Martin until, at the earliest, the police arrived, is gigantic pile of wholly ridiculous bullshit that no person of the most basic intelligence could possibly believe. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2396 "2013-07-17T08:33:56Z")
> [@Doggo](#): > > All of which is irrelevant. The only thing that counts is whether George thought he was in danger of being killed or maimed. I’m laffin’ out loud. Quite the dodge…you are a funny guy. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2397 "2013-07-17T08:35:33Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, what is the evidence that Zimmerman had his gun holstered in a position which would have been unaccessable if he were on his back? Everything we know about the way the world works? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2398 "2013-07-17T08:40:47Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > First, there doesn’t need to be one single thing just because you want it. Who says I wanted it? What I wanted was to scrutinize **Tollhouse** ’s claim in a focused way. That’s difficult if he is jumping from point to point. Besides which, if the “biggest hole” in the story is minor, or based on misinformation, it undermines **Tollhouse** ’s position quite a bit. > [@](#): > > But I thought it was pretty obvious that I think his claim that he didn’t think he’d hit Martin until, at the earliest, the police arrived, is gigantic pile of wholly ridiculous bullshit that no person of the most basic intelligence could possibly believe. (1) Can you provide evidence that Zimmerman made this claim? e.g. “I don’t think I hit Martin until, at the earliest, the police arrived”? (2) What is the evidence that this claim is false? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2399 "2013-07-17T08:42:49Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Everything we know about the way the world works? Ok, and there is no other evidence besides the general knowledge of **Stoid** and/or **Mr-Pookie**? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2400 "2013-07-17T09:38:26Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > (1) Can you provide evidence that Zimmerman made this claim? e.g. “I don’t think I hit Martin until, at the earliest, the police arrived”? Watch the re-enactment. > [@](#): > > (2) What is the evidence that this claim is false? The most obvious to me and others who aren’t scrambling to come up with ways to justify Zimmerman’s actions is the fact that Martin was found with his hands under him. But if you want to embrace the inherently unreasonable, unbelievable fiction that Martin continued to live, be conscious, and have the strength and will to move both of his arms from a spread wide position to back under his body after 200 pounds of Zimmerman sat on his collapsed lungs and destroyed heart to spread those arms apart and search him, fine. The other evidence is the fact that George Zimmerman has been reported to be a relatively intelligent human being, getting A’s in his classes, being among the best students. So we know for a fact that he’s not mentally challenged. And only someone who is severely mentally challenged, incapable of understanding the most basic physics, the kind of physics a small child understands automatically, could shoot someone in the center of their chest at close range, smelling, hearing and feeling the shot, observing the person they shot announce that they had been gotten, and then falling over on their face, and have any doubt whatsoever that they had successfully “hit” that person for even a moment, much less for all the moments that followed when he climbed on Martin and did whatever it was he did. And if you think otherwise, then I can’t begin to think what could have drawn you to Uncle Cecil’s little forum for fighting ignorance in the first place; it’s clearly not something that matters to you in the slightest. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=119) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=121)