# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2421 "2013-07-17T15:16:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s amazing that you can’t see yourself making stuff up. You literally changed Zimmerman’s narrative to fit your own. His unhurt body? really, where does Zimmerman say or infer this? He states that because Martin sat up he didn’t think he hit him. How long do you think before he came to the conclusion that he hit Martin? You wrote just a short while ago: (de-emphasis mine) > [@](#): > > " **Zimmerman never claimed Martin specifically said “you got me”** nor did he say Martin said it loudly nor did he claim Martin keeled over. \*\*He said he sat up and said something like “you got me” or “you got it” \*\* Making it _painfully_ apparent that you really have _no_ idea what you’re saying at all, or you have just decided that you are going to defend Zimmerman at all costs, logic and reason being chief among those costs. Whether you have a built-in shield or you have erected one deliberately, nothing is getting through. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2422 "2013-07-17T15:17:44Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Hard to get anything resembling a quality voice sample from the dead guy, one would think. It came from a recording on Martin’s phone. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2423 "2013-07-17T15:20:56Z")
By the way, brazil… > [@](#): > > > [@Stoid](#): > > > > Watch the re-enactment. > > > [@brazil84](#): > > > > Sorry, but I’m not going to go out searching for evidence to support your claims. That’s your job, not mine. If you choose not to support your claims, that is of course your choice. So how is that supposed to work exactly? I told you where the evidence was, that’s all I can do, since it’s video. If you refuse to watch it, does that mean you think I can just somehow inject it into your brain? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2424 "2013-07-17T15:28:22Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > By the way, brazil… > So how is that supposed to work exactly? I told you where the evidence was, that’s all I can do, since it’s video. If you refuse to watch it, does that mean you think I can just somehow inject it into your brain? You clearly haven’t watched it recently, since you’re wrong about it’s contents. Why should he, if you can’t be bothered to? The most useful thing you could do would be to rewatch it and link to the part that supports your theory. That’s how it _should_ work, you should support your claim. I won’t hold my breath… ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2425 "2013-07-17T15:39:11Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It came from a recording on Martin’s phone. Hard to get anything resembling a quality voice sample from the dead guy, one would think. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2426 "2013-07-17T15:43:13Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Hard to get anything resembling a quality voice sample from the dead guy, one would think. Does that go for Zimmerman too? The sample used from him was the NEN call. Is that quality? (Geeze, I try to share information as to where the ABC new sample came from, and I get the angry red letters. You are a prickly pear, **DragonAsh**.) ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2427 "2013-07-17T15:52:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You clearly haven’t watched it recently, since you’re wrong about it’s contents. Watched it. Also watching subsequent interviews. And the part I was wrong about in relation to the re-enactment video was that (good, presumably) said he was going to call the police, not 911, and GZ said (approximately) no, don’t: help me restrain this guy! Apart from that (which no one mentioned! Trying to turn truth into fiction, the actual error was missed entirely!) I was absolutely right about the contents. So that answers an earlier question from our dear double-shielded Magiver about how long Zimmerman labored under the misapprehension that he’d somehow managed to _ **not** _ hit someone he took aim and shot at point blank range… long enough to climb on his back, arrange his arms, and ask someone to help him “restrain” Martin who was either already dead or seconds away, and certainly not putting up any resistance. But GZ still didn’t think he’d hit him. So does anyone have any kind of creative speculation to account for Zimmerman being, evidently, a moron who seems to think that bullets take a sharp right or left turn when they exit the chamber, missing the 160 pounds of flesh 2-4 inches directly in front of them? Anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2428 "2013-07-17T15:53:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The most useful thing you could do would be to rewatch it and link to the part that supports your theory. That’s how it _should_ work, you should support your claim. How could you possibly know, since you never cite anything at all? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2429 "2013-07-17T16:02:05Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > No, it is different from what Mr. Zimmerman said. Ok, show me the evidence that Zimmerman stated his gun was underneath him. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2430 "2013-07-17T16:04:36Z")
A direct capture of normal voice using a cellphone microphone. vs. A recording captured on the other end of a phone call, of a voice heard from a distance, through walls, and not in a regular tone of voice. Does not compute. Let’s take Zimmerman to the scene of the crime. I’ll volunteer to fly down there, punch him, we’ll dance around until we make it a few houses down, and I’ll subdue him. We’ll get the witness on the phone with 911. Then let’s hear Zimmerman scream. Compare the original audio with the test. That could perhaps prove it was “Georgie” screaming. (Zimmerman is not allowed to be armed during this experiment)😉 ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2431 "2013-07-17T16:04:41Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > How could you possibly know, since you never cite anything at all? No, I just take your cites and show you’re wrong about them. It’s better that way because you can’t argue the legitimacy of the cite. So, please, link to the part of the video which shows where Zimmerman didn’t think he’d shot Martin. Then explain how he said to the witness to tell his wife he’d shot somebody. He changed his mind when he saw what the facts were. Something most people can do, except you so it seems. Hell, I did it about this very case, when it turned out Zimmerman had done nothing wrong. I originally assumed it would be manslaughter, based on false, biased reporting. For your claims about Zimmerman to hold, he would have to behave in ways completely different to other humans. He would have to have perfect observation and recall under stress, to eliminate the possibility of mistakes, he would have to magically know exactly what the witnesses had seen and the forensics would find, to match his story so well with theirs, and he would have to have somehow planned to have Martin come back to him and attack him. It is, quite literally, impossible that it happened that way. You are demonstrably wrong, and your own posts, and the flaws in them, prove that. Even in the calm of posting on a message board, with unlimited time to get things right, you still make mistakes and misinterpretations. And yet, you think that Zimmerman could not have done that… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2432 "2013-07-17T16:06:16Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I was absolutely right about the contents. Eh, not so much, as you said repeatedly that Martin “fell on his face”, and missed Zimmerman’s ambiguity as to what was said by Martin. > [@Stoid](#): > > So that answers an earlier question from our dear double-shielded Magiver about how long Zimmerman labored under the misapprehension that he’d somehow managed to _ **not** _ hit someone he took aim and shot at point blank range… long enough to climb on his back, arrange his arms, and ask someone to help him “restrain” Martin who was either already dead or seconds away, and certainly not putting up any resistance. But GZ still didn’t think he’d hit him. So, what, five-ten seconds or so? Also, Dr. Bao testified that Martin could have lived for up to 10 minutes, after first saying 1 to 3 minutes. Dr. DiMaio tesitifed that it was 1 to 3 minutes. So, on what do you base “already dead or seconds away”? > [@Stoid](#): > > So does anyone have any kind of creative speculation to account for Zimmerman being, evidently, a moron who seems to think that bullets take a sharp right or left turn when they exit the chamber, missing the 160 pounds of flesh 2-4 inches directly in front of them? > > Anyone? Zimmerman allegedly fired from the hip, more or less, not from a perfect Weaver stance. Afterward, Martin allegedly sat up, said something, then either fell off of Zimmerman or was shoved off. Is that what people do when they are shot? I have no idea. As far as we know, Zimmerman had never seen someone get shot before. Who knows what he was expecting to see if he’d shot Martin? Martin to fly backward? Martin to die instantly? Who knows? So, in sum, you are asserting that: a) Zimmerman knew that the muzzle was aligned with Martin’s chest at the moment the pistol went off, despite the darkness and, oh yeah, _Martin being on top of him_; b) Zimmerman knew that a person who is shot might sit up and say something, and c) Martin definitely fell on his face, he wasn’t shoved off by Zimmerman in a passive posture that could be mistaken for surrender. That’s a lot to assume, I must say. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2433 "2013-07-17T16:24:09Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Back up. > Physics that a small child would understand > Gunbarrel aimed dead center of chest, touching clothes, a few inches from flesh. > Trigger squeezed. > BOOM…Kickback…heat… > > Stop. > > “I didn’t think I hit him” > > :dubious::dubious::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: > > Everything after is just _ **more** _ confirmation of what he had to already know: not only did he hit him, it was all but impossible to have missed him. > That Kool-Aid you’ve been sucking down is damn powerful stuff, that’s for sure. No it’s not impossible to miss him. He was struggling for a gun which if you looked at it is very small. According to the ballistic evidence it was not pressed up against Martin. Given that you yourself argued Martin was incapacitated by the shot and therefore couldn’t say anything or move his hands it’s logical for Zimmerman to briefly question whether or not the shot connected. “I didn’t think I hit him” means he didn’t know for sure whether Martin was shot or was acknowledging Zimmrman had a gun . So I’ll ask you again how long you thought it took for him to realize that? And feel free to reign in your childish koolaid insults. You have yet to prove anything you’ve said. Your entire argument has been one of your feelings for Zimmerman and not provable facts. This is why the prosecution failed. They had no evidence to back up their claim. The only witness to support their claim was Dee Dee and that blew up in their face. This was predicted early in this thread by a number of people. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2434 "2013-07-17T16:26:07Z")
While I’m reliving the magic of Zimmerman’s Very Big Adventure…some other stuff that has been argued about: Was the gun inside his pants? Some say yes, some say no. [Richard Dawson] [Zimmy SEZ!](https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1025)[/Richard Dawson] > [@](#): > > Serino: So it’s an, an unsecure holster basically? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > … > Serino: **It was inside your pants?** > Zimmerman:\*\* Yes, sir.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2435 "2013-07-17T16:26:24Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, show me the evidence that Zimmerman stated his gun was underneath him. [link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VakGZgJxTi4) Check out the 10 minute mark. He grabs his back side to indicate where his weapon was located. Couple that with Zimmerman’s interviews where he states that during that time TM continued to smother and bash Zimmerman’s head. The defense also used the same positioning several times to make their case. Without a doubt (according to Zimmerman) the gun was under him. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2436 "2013-07-17T16:28:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > While I’m reliving the magic of Zimmerman’s Very Big Adventure…some other stuff that has been argued about: Was the gun inside his pants? Some say yes, some say no. > > [Richard Dawson] [Zimmy SEZ!](https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1025)[/Richard Dawson] Huh? Who says it wasn’t an inside-the-waistband holster? ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2437 "2013-07-17T16:31:02Z")
Hey, check this out. Serino bluffing? Or did the anonymous caller just stay anonymous? Either way, looks like my idea about Zimmy trying to “detain” wasn’t just some off-the-wall wackitude unique to me. And of course, whether Serino is bluffing or there was an anonymous caller who kept their anonymity, this makes a whole fuckload more sense than Zimmy’s version.. But of course I would think that, because I’ve always thought that… > [@](#): > > Serino: I mean, a lot of people don’t think that your injuries are consistent with getting in a life-threatening type thing, it’s a matter of perception, I understand that. If there’s anything that you might’ve forgotten…here’s him again, and now here’s another thing too I gotta show you also. That right there, is the only injury to his hands that we could document. OK? Now I heard you say you’re yelling for help, it’s a matter of perception, I guess that there’s no doubt in my mind that you were in fear, OK? Where the question comes into play is that what enraged him so badly? Besides the fact that maybe he felt he was being profiled, he’s from a bigger city, I don’t know, he can’t talk. I wish he woulda ran away. **Um, I got an anomynous, anonymous phone call today from somebody who gave a different version of events, you know, and that person is, uh, holding their statement. But, and they said something a little bit different. More along the lines you tried to detain him, more along the lines that, yeah, OK, there was arguing before the incident happened, there was yelling back and forth, um, these things happen. You know, for a lot of different reasons. And that’s probably why they kept their anon, anony. anonymity to themselves. I’m hoping that whatever they tell me doesn’t come out on here and then all of a sudden you’re looking at something that you never dreamed you’d be looking at. OK?** ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2438 "2013-07-17T16:38:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Huh? Who says it wasn’t an inside-the-waistband holster? I cannot state with absolute certainty without doing a search, but I strongly believe that it was Magiver who argued that it was not. No doubt because that just adds to the incredible nature of his story, and Magiver just can’t stand that. But it does turn out that it was inside the waistband, on the right, towards the back, if Zimmy’s gestures tell us anything. Under his shirt and his jacket. Behind Martin’s knee. Where Martin saw it. In the dark. And Zimmerman saw him see it. And grabbed it first. It’s remarkable how it just becomes _more_ ridiculous, instead of less. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2439 "2013-07-17T16:50:12Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Hey, check this out. Serino bluffing? Serino said, during his testimony, that he lied to Zimmerman, a lot, in order to try to trap him. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2440 "2013-07-17T16:50:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > No it’s not impossible to miss him. He was struggling for a gun which if you looked at it is very small. According to the ballistic evidence it was not pressed up against Martin. Just against his clothes, which is of course an enormous distinction when we’re talking about whether the bullet went forward, left, right, up, or down. > [@](#): > > Given that you yourself argued Martin was incapacitated by the shot and therefore couldn’t say anything or move his hands it’s logical for Zimmerman to briefly question whether or not the shot connected. I will need you to clarify, please. Are _YOU_ arguing that Martin was incapacitated, could not speak, could not move his hands, therefore Zimmerman had no way to figure out whether his shot found it’s mark? If not, what are you trying to convey with the above? > [@](#): > > “I didn’t think I hit him” means he didn’t know for sure whether Martin was shot or was acknowledging Zimmrman had a gun . Yes, I believe I know what the words “I didn’t think I hit him” mean. Pretty simple stuff. > [@](#): > > So I’ll ask you again how long you thought it took for him to realize that? Realize what? You really need to be more precise. How long did it take GZ to realize that he DID hit him? If that’s the question, so far it appears that he still did not know that he hit him by the time the police arrived, given his urgent request of the neighbor to “help restrain” the dead/almost dead guy underneath him, and the police arriving seconds later, at which point he rose from the body. Still haven’t found the part where he says he finally figured it out, but he managed to stay in the dark from shot-to-police, which is wholly unbelievable unless he’s a moron, and as previously noted, we have evidence which would indicate that he is in no way a moron. > [@](#): > > You have yet to prove anything you’ve said. Your entire argument has been one of your feelings for Zimmerman and not provable facts. I am sincere when I say that at this point, I’m pretty sure that if I produced a video with night vision and enhanced audio showing you that Zimmerman hunted him down and blew him away you wouldn’t consider it proof. Because nothing is proof to someone who can make up, then accept, just about anything that looks like it might serve to cover Zimmerman’s gaping holes. You don’t want to see the holes, so you don’t. I accept that. It would be unhealthy for me not to, I’d go mad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=123)