# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 124
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2461 "2013-07-17T17:51:06Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > In an alternate universe where words mean something radically different…:rolleyes: Anyone care to tell me what the meaningful distinction is supposed to be between Zim pushing him off or him falling? What difference are you perceiving between Martin being so weak and limp and unresisting (like someone who just got shot!) he can be easily shoved off vs. being so weak and limp that he simply falls (like someone who just got shot)? If someone surrenders to you, that generally entails physical compliance. If Zimmerman believed Martin to have surrendered to him, why would he be shocked that Martin became “unresisting” and let Zimmerman shove him off? That’s _exactly_ what you’d expect. Conversely, someone just pitching forward, limp, onto their face, unbidden, is more telling of the person being injured. > [@Stoid](#): > > The difference between “you got me” and “you got me or you got it”? “You got me” does have some connotation to being shot, in an old-timey movie sort of way, though it also connotes to “You’ve won” or “You’ve figured me out”, i.e. "“I will now comply with you, armed person”. Nothing about “You got it” connotes to being shot. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2462 "2013-07-17T17:52:41Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Which part are you asking me to believe? Because I don’t believe Martin said that. I don’t believe the gun was holstered at that point to begin with, so I don’t believe the whole reveal-grab story. I don’t believe Zimmerman had a sincere fear for his life and health. I know you don’t. It’s a hypothetical. Given those facts, would Zimmerman be committing a crime to shoot Martin? Would it be morally wrong to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2463 "2013-07-17T17:56:15Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Lots of evidence contradicts GZs account. Care to tell us what that is, then? It’s not the witnesses to the fight, of whom the only one who could accurately describe the participants described it as Zimmerman did. It’s not Martin, via his girlfriend, as that agrees with Zimmerman’s story. It’s not the voice experts, who say it’s possible it was Zimmerman screaming. It’s not the medical experts, who say his injuries are consistent with being punched and beaten against concrete (although less times than Zimmerman says - is that the whole of your contradiction?) It’s not the coroner, who says Martin was shot from the position Zimmerman claims to have been in at the time. So, what is it? I doubt there’s _lots_ of evidence left I haven’t referred to. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2464 "2013-07-17T17:56:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The six members of the jury, after seeing all the evidence provided to them by the prosecution and by the defense, decided that a reasonable person in the same circumstances would have felt fear of death or great bodily harm (and yes, I know they just return guilty or non-guilty, but without self-defense angle they had to find guilty of manslaughter, so it is pretty clear that they decided it based on self-defense). > > You may disbelieve it. But that’s your problem. Not disbelief. Disagreement. The jury did as they were instructed. Doesn’t change my opinion of the evidence and GZ’s stories. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2465 "2013-07-17T18:00:16Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Care to tell us what that is, then? It’s not the witnesses to the fight, of whom the only one who could accurately describe the participants described it as Zimmerman did. It’s not Martin, via his girlfriend, as that agrees with Zimmerman’s story. It’s not the voice experts, who say it’s possible it was Zimmerman screaming. It’s not the medical experts, who say his injuries are consistent with being punched and beaten against concrete (although less times than Zimmerman says - is that the whole of your contradiction?) It’s not the coroner, who says Martin was shot from the position Zimmerman claims to have been in at the time. > > So, what is it? I doubt there’s _lots_ of evidence left I haven’t referred to. I think people have spent the last 17 months pointing out how his accounts of events are not plausible. Several posts in the last few pages of this thread. If you choose to believe GZ that is your right. It is a popular position to believe every word he says. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2466 "2013-07-17T18:00:31Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Not disbelief. Disagreement. > > The jury did as they were instructed. Doesn’t change my opinion of the evidence and GZ’s stories. 'sokay. There are millions of people who believe in UFOs and grassy knoll shooter, too. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2467 "2013-07-17T18:05:13Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > It is a popular position to believe every word he says. No, it really isn’t, though that strawman is becoming ragged from overuse. I don’t think a single regular contributor to Zimmerman threads believes every word he says. Unless you can demonstrate that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2468 "2013-07-17T18:05:25Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > If you choose to believe GZ that is your right. It is a popular position to believe every word he says. I am convinced that Zimmerman lied both by omission and directly in several aspects of his story. But none of those lies allowed a finding of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2469 "2013-07-17T18:06:04Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > If you choose to believe GZ that is your right. It is a popular position to believe every word he says. At least on this message board, it isn’t a popular position at all. As a matter of fact, I don’t know of even a single poster on the SDMB who holds that position. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2470 "2013-07-17T18:06:33Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > … > I really think you should take a little time to read about extreme stress situations. People do illogical things (e.g. my friend who kept screaming at emergency responders to help her fiance who was very obviously dead). … There is a huge variance in how seemingly normal people react to emergency situations. Some are calm and rationale. Some are hysterical blithering puddles of their normal selves. I’ve answered rambling incoherent 9-1-1 calls where the caller repeats the same entreaties over-and-over and cannot seem to fathom that help is on the way when I tell them so. I’ve had a 9-1-1 call where a man said calmly “I’ve been shot” with absolutely no perceivable emotional affect at all. The caller’s emotional state does not necessarily correlate with the seriousness of the event. And emergency responders are not necessarily any better than anyone else. There are police officers who freak out at the sight of blood and just repeatedly ask for an updated ETA for the ambulance (_HINT_: It’s 15 seconds closer than the last time you asked!) There are off-duty 9-1-1 dispatchers who report a car wreck and yet seem to forget all the normal things we ask for every day when answering those calls. Normal people do not necessarily react in a logical and rationale manner when placed under extreme stress. A few do. Most, in my humble experience, do not. I would not expect that Zimmerman or Martin would have been any different. I would not expect perfectly rationale recollection of the events. I would not expect moment-by-moment full analysis of all the available options at every step of their confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2471 "2013-07-17T18:28:51Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > I think people have spent the last 17 months pointing out how his accounts of events are not plausible. Several posts in the last few pages of this thread. You would be incorrect then. People have been _claiming_ that, but not in any way showing _how_ it is not plausible. Contrarily, I and others have shown how his account _does_ match the evidence - I did so in the post you quoted, and have not even attempted to refute. > [@](#): > > If you choose to believe GZ that is your right. It is a popular position to believe every word he says. Not here. I doubt anyone believes every word he says. I know I don’t. I also don’t think that because one (or even several) things he says is false, then the whole of what he says is, or that it’s evidence he’s intentionally lying. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2472 "2013-07-17T18:32:32Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > He didn’t struggle for the gun, according to Zimmerman. Zimmerman said in one of this many accounts that Trayvon continued to bash his brains in. cite one of the many accounts. I cite his video and that’s the last thing that happens in the fight. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > The first testimony that he knew was when he asked the neighbor to tell his wife he shot somebody. I asked Stoid opinon on when she thought Zimmerman knew Martin was hit. You’re welcome to guess but that was not an answer. My guess is the ease with which he was able to get him off his chest and the subsequent lack of resistance. > [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Lots of evidence contradicts GZs account. None of it, on it’s own, is a smoking gun to disallow his powerful claim of self defense. Proving he lied is a tall order since nobody saw what happened. None of the evidence contradicts Zimmerman’s account. You can invoke your belief system, but none of it contradicts it. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2473 "2013-07-17T18:43:44Z")
> [@](#): > > The six members of the jury, after seeing all the evidence provided to them by the prosecution and by the defense, decided that a reasonable person in the same circumstances would have felt fear of death or great bodily harm Actually, I don’t think they decided that at all. I think they concluded that the state had not proven beyond all reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was not actually in fear of death. Not quite the same thing. Zimmerman was not found ‘innocent’, he was found ‘not guilty’. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2474 "2013-07-17T18:44:45Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Still not following. nothing I can do about that then. > [@Stoid](#): > > When do _I_ think? _I_ think he knew instantly. What he claims is still a question mark, but it wasn’t any time before the cops showed up. well your opinion isn’t backed up by evidence. The coroner’s report showed that his chest was full of blood so his heart had to continue beating. So Zimmerman’s claim that Martin didn’t say something isn’t disproved. > [@Stoid](#): > > As I said, nothing is or ever could be proof to you. I understand that. Well that makes sense coming from you but you can’t even be bothered to remember that I thought Zimmerman was guilty at the beginning of the original thread. I then read through the evidence looking for provable lies and none were found. You can’t seem to come to grips with the idea of innocent until proven guilty. That means unless you can prove it he is not guilty. They had the same weak evidence going into the trial as was turned down initially and had to bypass the Grand Jury to bring it to trial. The Prosecution fired one of their team members for exposing the fact they withheld evidence. This trial was a joke from the beginning and at best they hoped to find something in a year and a half. They didn’t. If any evidence shows Zimmerman started the fight, or had his gun out the whole time or deliberately attempted to draw Martin into a fight then I and the others arguing the evidence will gladly state our opinion of guilt. But as it stands, the evidence indicates Martin went out of his way to confront Zimmerman and then attacked him. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2475 "2013-07-17T18:48:04Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If someone surrenders to you, that generally entails physical compliance. If Zimmerman believed Martin to have surrendered to him, why would he be shocked that Martin became “unresisting” and let Zimmerman shove him off? That’s _exactly_ what you’d expect. > > Conversely, someone just pitching forward, limp, onto their face, unbidden, is more telling of the person being injured. Well that is absolutely news to me. Was Martin supposed to be giving up because of a gun? And you’re telling me that it would be normal for somebody who is surrendering to a man with a gun to just slumped over in the grass or be pushed so that you slump in the grass? No. If we are supposed to believe that Zimmerman believed that Martin was “giving up”, (Because of that magic bullet that he heard make a sharp left instead of going through his guts) Then no, we don’t expect slumping, we expect wide-eyed fear and arms up and Martin Being extraordinarily alert not sleepy… “Oh man I see you have a gun I guess That’s my cue to take a nap…”. Please, please give me a very large break. Particularly in terms of thinking that I was trying to make anything look any particular way since I think your view of it is ludicrous. > [@](#): > > “You got me” does have some connotation to being shot, in an old-timey movie sort of way, though it also connotes to “You’ve won” or “You’ve figured me out”, i.e. "“I will now comply with you, armed person”. > > Nothing about “You got it” connotes to being shot Which might matter if he said you got it instead or even first. But in fact Zimmerman did say “you got me”, and he said it _many_ times, in many interviews. So there’s nothing remotely distorted about my pointing that out at all. What ever else you may ever think of me and I’m sure you have a list, I am never dishonest in my personal life, which includes message boards. (I have been known to be dishonest with companies and corporations for various reasons. But that’s where I draw the line… I am never dishonest with people I know personally or I’m interacting with on a personal level. Never. There is absolutely no reason in the world that I would do that, it would give me no juice at all. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2476 "2013-07-17T18:52:22Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > I would not expect that Zimmerman or Martin would have been any different. I would not expect perfectly rationale recollection of the events. I would not expect moment-by-moment full analysis of all the available options at every step of their confrontation. Years ago I was involved peripherally in a large bar brawl. It emptied into the parking lot where all hell broke loose. I tried to stay out of it and observe but got sucked into it with 3 of my own conflicts. Not one person’s account matched another. Not one. Most of it was time-line issues and the rest was who-said-what. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2477 "2013-07-17T19:00:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > well your opinion isn’t backed up by evidence. The coroner’s report showed that his chest was full of blood so his heart had to continue beating. So Zimmerman’s claim that Martin didn’t say something isn’t disproved. I’m guessing that you are conflating my belief that Zimmerman knew instantly that he had shot Martin with a belief that Martin died instantly… That’s the only reason I can think of for you bringing up the continuing heartbeat. Also I don’t know What you mean when you say “Zimmermans claim that Martin didn’t say something isn’t disproved” are you saying that Zimmerman claimed that Martin didn’t speak? Because Zimmerman claimed that Martin did speak… In later interviews he said he didn’t know what Martin was saying, but in the first interview on 26 February, He did not make the claim that he did not know he had hit Martin, and he said that Martin said when he was sitting on his back, “Ow ow”. Yes, I would imagine that having 200 pounds of George Zimmerman sitting on your destroyed heart and collapsed lungs would make you want to say “ow” although at that point I find it hard to believe that you _could_. So I guess Zimmerman realized that it looked pretty bad for him to be sitting on Martin’s mortally wounded torso listening to him say “ow”’ leading to his claim that he did not realize he had hit him… And did not know what he was saying. > [@](#): > > I and the others . . When were you voted spokesperson? Whom do you represent exactly? Do you hope to bolster your position by aligning yourself with others of like mind? I believe that’s known as _argumentum ad populum_ and it carries no weight whatsoever with me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2478 "2013-07-17T19:01:01Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Well that is absolutely news to me. Was Martin supposed to be giving up because of a gun? And you’re telling me that it would be normal for somebody who is surrendering to a man with a gun to just slumped over in the grass or be pushed so that you slump in the grass? No. If we are supposed to believe that Zimmerman believed that Martin was “giving up”, (Because of that magic bullet that he heard make a sharp left instead of going through his guts) Then no, we don’t expect slumping, we expect wide-eyed fear and arms up and Martin Being extraordinarily alert not sleepy… “Oh man I see you have a gun I guess That’s my cue to take a nap…”. Please, please give me a very large break. Particularly in terms of thinking that I was trying to make anything look any particular way since I think your view of it is ludicrous. can you cite where Zimmerman said the bullet took a magic turn? All he said was that he wasn’t sure he hit him because Martin sat back and uttered a few words. What is so difficult to understand about that? Can you explain your confusion? > [@Stoid](#): > > Which might matter if he said you got it instead or even first. But in fact Zimmerman did say “you got me”, and he said it _many_ times, in many interviews. So there’s nothing remotely distorted about my pointing that out at all. no he said he thinks that’s what he said or something close to it. Again, what is so difficult to understand about that? You’ve been shown that Martin was alive after the shot. ---
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2479 "2013-07-17T19:07:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Years ago I was involved peripherally in a large bar brawl. It emptied into the parking lot where all hell broke loose. I tried to stay out of it and observe but got sucked into it with 3 of my own conflicts. Not one person’s account matched another. Not one. Most of it was time-line issues and the rest was who-said-what. It would be great to have more than one start to finish perspective on the TM vs. GZ altercation. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/2480 "2013-07-17T19:08:42Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Well that is absolutely news to me. Was Martin supposed to be giving up because of a gun? Did you watch the walkthrough or not? Yes, Zimmerman says he thought Martin was giving up because he saw that Zimmerman had drawn and fired his gun. Zimmerman said: “After I shot him, he like sat up…and I didn’t think I hit him, because he sat up and he said, uh, ‘you got me, you got it, you got me’, something like that, so I thought he was just saying ‘I know you have a gun now, I heard it, I’m giving up.’” > [@Stoid](#): > > And you’re telling me that it would be normal for somebody who is surrendering to a man with a gun to just slumped over in the grass or be pushed so that you slump in the grass? No. If we are supposed to believe that Zimmerman believed that Martin was “giving up”, (Because of that magic bullet that he heard make a sharp left instead of going through his guts) Then no, we don’t expect slumping, we expect wide-eyed fear and arms up and Martin Being extraordinarily alert not sleepy… “Oh man I see you have a gun I guess That’s my cue to take a nap…”. Please, please give me a very large break. Particularly in terms of thinking that I was trying to make anything look any particular way since I think your view of it is ludicrous. What you are doing is imagining how it may have happened, and then calling Zimmerman a liar because his account differs from your imagination, while also criticizing his observation skills and cognition _during a fight to the death_. You imagine Martin, mostly dead and unresponsive (“sleepy”; I have no idea where you got “sleepy”, or the idea that Martin wasn’t alert), slowly slumping off of Zimmerman, then Zimmerman climbing on top of him. But, as Zimmerman actually describes it, it seems to have been fairly rapid: shot fired, Martin sits up, Zimmerman shoves him off and gets on top of him: “I don’t know if I pushed him off me or he fell off me. Either way, I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart. [Question from officer] I don’t remember how I got on top of him.” Say that took two seconds. You’re shocked that Zimmerman wouldn’t notice that Martin was being overly compliant, “sleepy”, whatever? As for “arms up”, Zimmerman does mimic that while describing the apparent surrender, which may mean that Martin did that, or just that Zimmerman talks with his hands. > [@Stoid](#): > > Which might matter if he said you got it instead or even first. But in fact Zimmerman did say “you got me”, and he said it _many_ times, in many interviews. So there’s nothing remotely distorted about my pointing that out at all. If you say so. Conveniently, it helps your case, where “You got it” (or the more accurate "something like ‘you got me’ or ‘you got it’) wouldn’t. This is the exact same reasoning you use to call Zimmerman a liar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=123) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=125)