# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/441 "2013-06-30T17:40:59Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > “Just tell her I shot someone” **suggests Shellie was fully aware that he was playing cops and robbers** with Trayvon, not shopping at Target. Manalo says she expressed no surprise when he told her that. No it doesn’t. It suggest that GZ wanted Manlo to clarify the situation to GZ’s wife. But only if you are willing to consider everything Manlo told GZ’s wife. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/442 "2013-06-30T19:26:05Z")
Assuming it is an infraction for an attorney to ask a witness the same question three times, a misdemeanor to ask it six times, _and a felony to ask the very same question ten times_, then **I charge Walter White with three felonies** during his cross-examination of Rachel Jeantel. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/443 "2013-06-30T21:11:08Z")
> [@Passengernumber4](#): > > I can see myself saying the exact thing Zimmerman told (through proxy) to his wife. “I shot someone” is all that needs to be said. I can’t be sure of my wife’s reaction, but I would assume she wouldn’t be shocked and would know that I needed to do what I needed to do. Most normal people aren’t thinking about what messages they will need to communicate to loved ones the eventual day they end up shooting someone. CCW permit or not. You realize that, right? Unless you’re a cop, security guard or living in a warzone, your wife should be surprised to find out a harmless Sunday night trip to Target turned into you shooting someone. If you’re honestly telling me she wouldn’t be shocked, this suggests you’re shooting way too many people to be a normal person. No, I do not carry a gun. Why would I? I’m not putting myself in situations in which it would help to have a gun on me. My neighborhood is safe and I work a desk job. My life is peaceful, by design. Which is great because it saves me the work in creating a ready-made script to use when I kill someone. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/444 "2013-06-30T23:09:39Z")
> [@emeraldia](#): > > De La Rionda making those sound effects is one of the most ridiculous things he’s done. I don’t think O’Mara made it clear just how ridiculous it was. You must’ve never witnessed a fight, bless your heart. Only on SDMB would you have people suggest that slaps, punches, and kicks, don’t make recognizable sounds. I guess the last time you got slapped across the face, the sound evaporated into a imperceptible whisper. The last time you you punched your fist into your open palm, that sound too, cannot be heard by others around you. We also know that kicks don’t make sounds either, it’s just your quadriceps putting 50+ lbs of force against someone’s flesh, this too, occurs in silence. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/445 "2013-06-30T23:18:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Not weird. You’re taking it out of context. What did Manlo tell GZ’s wife? > > Manlo - “Your husband has been involved in a shooting. He’s being handcuffed and he’s going to be held for questioning at the Sanford Police Department.” > > Right around that time he (GZ) cut me off and said, “Just tell her I shot someone.” > > GZ heard Manlo tell his wife that her husband was involved in a shooting. The first thing Mrs. GZ would want to know is if her husband had been shot. Manlo’s response was too vague. Was GZ shot? Manlo didn’t say. Manlo only said GZ was involved in a shooting. That could mean that GZ had been shot. GZ wanted Manlo to clarify the situation. That’s stupid. His statement that your husband was involved in a shooting and he’s being handcuffed for questioning, should suggest to any educated person, that GZ was _not_ shot. Not only that, Shellie new her husband carried a gun. Why would the police drag a guy who’s been shot, handcuff him, and take him to the police station for questioning? It’s like this is the Twilight Zone: Is it normal police procedure to take someone who’s been shot and question them without first allowing them to be checked by a hospital to remove the bullets? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/446 "2013-06-30T23:36:04Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > That’s stupid. His statement that your husband was involved in a shooting and he’s being handcuffed for questioning, should suggest to any educated person, that GZ was _not_ shot. Not only that, Shellie new her husband carried a gun. Why would the police drag a guy who’s been shot, handcuff him, and take him to the police station for questioning? > **[Neighbours suggest George Zimmerman was pinned back by Trayvon Martin](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/29/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-trial)** > > Two neighbors and a police officer testify that Martin did appear to straddle Zimmerman while the pair were fighting last year Manalo started to tell Zimmerman’s wife that her husband had been involved in a shooting and was being questioned by police when “he cut me off and said, ‘Just tell her I shot someone,’” Manalo said. No “handcuffed”. No “dragged to the police station for questioning”. You love to invent stuff don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/447 "2013-07-01T00:25:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Neighbors suggest George Zimmerman was pinned back by Trayvon Martin | George Zimmerman | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/29/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-trial) > > Manalo started to tell Zimmerman’s wife that her husband had been involved in a shooting and was being questioned by police when “he cut me off and said, ‘Just tell her I shot someone,’” Manalo said. > > No “handcuffed”. No “dragged to the police station for questioning”. You love to invent stuff don’t you? WTF are you talking about? Did you not read the post I was responding to? Let me help you: [QUOTE=doorhinge] Not weird. You’re taking it out of context. What did Manlo tell GZ’s wife? \*\*Manlo - “Your husband has been involved in a shooting. He’s being handcuffed and he’s going to be held for questioning at the Sanford Police Department.” \*\* Right around that time he (GZ) cut me off and said, “Just tell her I shot someone.” GZ heard Manlo tell his wife that her husband was involved in a shooting. The first thing Mrs. GZ would want to know is if her husband had been shot. Manlo’s response was too vague. Was GZ shot? Manlo didn’t say. Manlo only said GZ was involved in a shooting. That could mean that GZ had been shot. GZ wanted Manlo to clarify the situation. [/QUOTE] Or did I make that up too? Here’s a tip: ignore my posts as it’s clear you’re more preoccupied with me as a poster rather than the content of my posts. In fact, you’re so preoccupied with me as a poster that you didn’t bother to read the post that I was responding to and, instead, flat-out implied I’m out there “inventing” stuff. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/448 "2013-07-01T00:53:35Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > WTF are you talking about? Did you not read the post I was responding to? Let me help you: > > Or did I make that up too? Here’s a tip: ignore my posts as it’s clear you’re more preoccupied with me as a poster rather than the content of my posts. In fact, you’re so preoccupied with me as a poster that you didn’t bother to read the post that I was responding to and, instead, flat-out implied I’m out there “inventing” stuff. > > - Honesty You are apparently more interested in discussing your fantasies than the real testimony. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/449 "2013-07-01T01:23:14Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You are apparently more interested in discussing your fantasies than the real testimony. Unlike you, who posted about the “real testimony” whereby Zimmerman punched buttons on his phone and it was recorded for time. You are obviously never wrong, since you never apologize for any errors; so how about providing a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/450 "2013-07-01T01:30:00Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > You must’ve never witnessed a fight, bless your heart. Only on SDMB would you have people suggest that slaps, punches, and kicks, don’t make recognizable sounds. I guess the last time you got slapped across the face, the sound evaporated into a imperceptible whisper. The last time you you punched your fist into your open palm, that sound too, cannot be heard by others around you. We also know that kicks don’t make sounds either, it’s just your quadriceps putting 50+ lbs of force against someone’s flesh, this too, occurs in silence. > > - Honesty I think it is undisputed that Martin was wearing a hoodie at the time of the shooting. Zimmerman was wearing a jacket. I would expect their clothing to substantially silence any flesh-on-flesh sounds from any body blows during a fight. If Martin’s hoodie was up (and I have not heard specific evidence on this point though the photos from the scene should be telling) then his face may have been shielded from direct skin-on-skin contact. Further it was raining that night, though hard to say exactly how hard at the exact moment of the fight. Depending upon how hard it was raining then ambient sounds from a fight might very well be partially drown out my the rain. Hollywood fight scenes routinely use [foley artists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_%28filmmaking%29) to add in the sounds we expect to hear from a fight. Of course stuntmen do not actually land blows in a staged fight. But foley artists also add in other background noise (grunts, moans, etc…) that simply are not loud enough to be properly recorded. ---
**Author:** ![Passengernumber4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Passengernumber4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Passengernumber4)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/451 "2013-07-01T01:49:48Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Most normal people aren’t thinking about what messages they will need to communicate to loved ones the eventual day they end up shooting someone. CCW permit or not. You realize that, right? Unless you’re a cop, security guard or living in a warzone, your wife should be surprised to find out a harmless Sunday night trip to Target turned into you shooting someone. If you’re honestly telling me she wouldn’t be shocked, this suggests you’re shooting way too many people to be a normal person. > > No, I do not carry a gun. Why would I? I’m not putting myself in situations in which it would help to have a gun on me. My neighborhood is safe and I work a desk job. My life is peaceful, by design. Which is great because it saves me the work in creating a ready-made script to use when I kill someone. When you are a responsible CWP holder it is a smart thing to talk about the outcome of a shooting with your family so they know what happens if it happens and can remain calm. I carry almost 24/7 and usually don’t even think about my weapon, but if I had to use it and someone called my wife I wouldn’t want them to try to explain a whole lot. Just tell her 1) I shot someone and 2) I’m ok. I would expect her to be calm and not act shocked because of the conversations we have had in the past. She knows I carry, and she knows ill use it to protect myself or others. It would be irresponsible to carry and not talk to your family about the possibility of using your weapon in self defense. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/452 "2013-07-01T03:25:52Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > That’s stupid. His statement that your husband was involved in a shooting and he’s being handcuffed for questioning, should suggest to any **educated person** , that GZ was _not_ shot. Not only that, Shellie new her husband carried a gun. Why would the police drag a guy who’s been shot, handcuff him, and take him to the police station for questioning? It’s like this is the Twilight Zone: Is it normal police procedure to take someone who’s been shot and question them without first allowing them to be checked by a hospital to remove the bullets? Really? ROFL. You took Manlo’s statement out of context. Hindsight may be 20/20 but Mrs GZ recieved a phone call that said, “Your husband has been involved in a shooting. Yada, yada, yada.” It’s reasonable for the jury to assume that GZ wanted Manlo to clarify that it was GZ who was the shooter and not the shootee. It’s also reasonable for a jury to understand that the first thing Mrs GZ would “need” to know is if GZ was OK. It was an emotional and stressful moment. By “educated person”, did you mean a “trained person”? A person who had been familiar/trained/educated to recieve such a phone call and not experience stress? Or a person who had been familiar/trained/educated with making such a phone call? What does the jury’s, Mrs GZ, or Manlo’s “education” have to do with how the jury will view Manlo’s statement? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/453 "2013-07-01T03:39:52Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Assuming it is an infraction for an attorney to ask a witness the same question three times, a misdemeanor to ask it six times, _and a felony to ask the very same question ten times_, then **I charge Walter White with three felonies** during his cross-examination of Rachel Jeantel. Rachel Jeantel was a VERY difficult witness to question. The judge, prosecutors, and defense attorneys even worked together at times to insure that the court reporter understood what RJ had said/was saying. One of the jurors even asked what is was that RJ had just said. The judge gave both sides ample leeway to get a clear answer from RJ. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/454 "2013-07-01T05:28:41Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > I think it is undisputed that Martin was wearing a hoodie at the time of the shooting. Zimmerman was wearing a jacket. I would expect their clothing to substantially silence any flesh-on-flesh sounds from any body blows during a fight. If Martin’s hoodie was up (and I have not heard specific evidence on this point though the photos from the scene should be telling) then his face may have been shielded from direct skin-on-skin contact. > > Further it was raining that night, though hard to say exactly how hard at the exact moment of the fight. Depending upon how hard it was raining then ambient sounds from a fight might very well be partially drown out my the rain. > > Hollywood fight scenes routinely use [foley artists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foley_%28filmmaking%29) to add in the sounds we expect to hear from a fight. Of course stuntmen do not actually land blows in a staged fight. But foley artists also add in other background noise (grunts, moans, etc…) that simply are not loud enough to be properly recorded. I don’t know why posters keep bringing in sound effects in Hollywood, that’s not what I’m referring. But Zimmerman’s injuries were to his face and head where he had no clothing, so I’m not seeing how their clothing would muffle punches, kicks, slaps. If you’d need a demonstration, do this: ask your family member to slap you across the face and pass out placards asking listeners if they heard the slap or if sound didn’t register to their ears. Here’s an easy one: punch your fist into an open palm: do you hear silence or do you hear a sound? Let us know how this experiment turns out. SDMB = Twilight Zone - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/455 "2013-07-01T05:58:44Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I don’t know why posters keep bringing in sound effects in Hollywood, that’s not what I’m referring. But Zimmerman’s injuries were to his face and head where he had no clothing, so I’m not seeing how their clothing would muffle punches, kicks, slaps. If you’d need a demonstration, do this: ask your family member to slap you across the face and pass out placards asking listeners if they heard the slap or if sound didn’t register to their ears. Here’s an easy one: punch your fist into an open palm: do you hear silence or do you hear a sound? Let us know how this experiment turns out. > > SDMB = Twilight Zone > > - Honesty At work, I have the unfortunate opportunity to witness about 1 to 3 fights a month. Sometimes when one person strikes another person, there is a loud “wack,” not as loud and as crisp as a fist hitting a cupped hand, but enough to think that the strike was very hard and painful. On the other hand, I have witnessed fights in which one person struck another with full force, hard enough to injure, and it sounded like soft “thuds,” maybe like hitting a heavy bag or a canvas bag packed tight with sand. Even slaps don’t sound as loud and crisp as you think they would, usually the target is moving, turning, getting their hair or shoulder in the way of the blow, etc. Even though the hits aren’t clean and loud, they can still injure and hurt. More often than either of those situations is that there is so much other noise going on the striking sounds don’t seem to register as much as the noise the two fighters are making with their mouths, their scuffling, or other noises in the environment. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/456 "2013-07-01T06:35:49Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > If you’d need a demonstration, do this: ask your family member to slap you across the face and pass out placards asking listeners if they heard the slap or if sound didn’t register to their ears. Here’s an easy one: punch your fist into an open palm: do you hear silence or do you hear a sound? Now try this at 60-80 feet away on a rainy night with someone screaming. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/457 "2013-07-01T07:32:04Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I don’t know why posters keep bringing in sound effects in Hollywood, that’s not what I’m referring. But Zimmerman’s injuries were to his face and head where he had no clothing, so I’m not seeing how their clothing would muffle punches, kicks, slaps. If you’d need a demonstration, do this: ask your family member to slap you across the face and pass out placards asking listeners if they heard the slap or if sound didn’t register to their ears. Here’s an easy one: punch your fist into an open palm: do you hear silence or do you hear a sound? Let us know how this experiment turns out. > > SDMB = Twilight Zone > > - Honesty Is anyone seriously suggesting that either party to the Martin/Zimmerman fight was punching his own (or the other party’s) open palm? If not then why would that example have any relevance at all? And is there any testimony at all of a witness stating one party was being slapped across the face? Sounds get muffled, distorted, echoed, and otherwise altered by the environment in which the sound is produced. One sound such as a scream may overpower another sound. The various witnesses have used many descriptive phrases and adjectives to describe the sounds from that night. Several witnesses report the sounds of a struggle, screams, scuffling and the shot. They have used various descriptive terms to do so. No one has yet testified to flesh-on-flesh sounds but there is evidence that Zimmerman had injuries. The jury can decide if it is reasonable to presume that Zimmerman received those injuries in the fight. Agreeing that Zimmerman’s injuries were received in the fight does not in itself require believing that Martin was the aggressor. > [@Honesty](#): > > …What struck me was that Good didn’t hear the flesh-on-flesh sound of someone being pummeled MMA-style, he just saw downward movements. For all we know, ZImmerman could’ve gotten elbowed in the nose and got his head scraped from tussling from the grass to the concrete. Still, no evidence that his head was banged against the concrete or he was punched. … There is testimony from the physician’s assistant that Zimmerman had two black eyes a couple days after the fight and that two lacerations were visible on the back of his head. How did he get the black eyes if he was not punched? More elbowing? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/458 "2013-07-01T08:16:27Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > There is testimony from the physician’s assistant that Zimmerman had two black eyes a couple days after the fight and that two lacerations were visible on the back of his head. How did he get the black eyes if he was not punched? More elbowing? It is very common to develop black eyes after a nose injury or surgery. [Here is a photograph of John Kerry with black eyes after breaking his nose playing hockey.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090891/John-Kerry-black-eyes-Senator-shows-injuries-breaking-nose-hockey-match.html) It can happen without any direct trauma to the eyes themselves. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/459 "2013-07-01T08:46:50Z")
[**Audio of Zimmerman’s Interview with Sanford PD**](http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/zimmerman-audio-interview-with-sanford-pd-on-feb/vcQzm/) Serino and another detective go over his story with him on February 29, 2012, three days after the shooting. They play the NEN call he made, and let him hear the 911 calls with the screaming up until the shot is fired. It seems like he doesn’t recognize his own voice. A detective asks what some of us have been asking: > [@](#): > > “It’s continuous screaming. How can you be smothered?” ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2013, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/460 "2013-07-01T10:30:19Z")
If Zimmerman takes the stand, it will be quite interesting how the smothering claim comes up at cross. If were the State, I’d play the last 5 seconds of the 911 tape over and over again, JFK-style, and ask Zimmerman to tell us when exactly Martin’s hands stopped his breathing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=24)