# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Mr-Pookie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ed655f/32.png) [@Mr-Pookie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr-Pookie)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/741 "2013-07-03T16:43:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Trayvon could have been saying “Homo” and Zimmerman misheard. Now that I can believe. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/742 "2013-07-03T16:58:42Z")
Speculation on a side issue… juror lunch. The CNN blog cites: “The judge has recessed jurors for lunch until 1:45 p.m. ET. She tells them she wants to give them extra time because there’s something different for lunch today.” My guess is a cookout in honor of upcoming Independence Day. Burgers and/or hotdogs; potato salad, slaw, baked beans, etc… That is my guess why it might take a little longer than normal. At any decent cookout you have to have time to go back for seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/743 "2013-07-03T17:18:21Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Inconsistent with normal human survival. Does not equate to impossible to have happened. Suggesting certain statements and utterances to unlikely does not make them impossible, nor does it make the physical evidence go away. From what we know so far it is going to be a tough row to hoe for the prosecution to conclusively show that the evidence _unquestionably_ excludes self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/744 "2013-07-03T17:35:07Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Trayvon sounds like the hardest MFer in cell block D with that kind of brazen anouncement of his next move. “You’re going to die tonight” as if this was his 20th kill. Usually when people, even kids, see weapons their first instinct isn’t to shoot people with malice and in such an artistic way. I’m glad Zimmerman took such a thug off the street.☹ > > Inconsistent with normal human survival. The whole tough guy lifestyle tends to be “inconsistent with normal human survival.” And we have some indication that Trayvon, like so many young men, wanted to present himself as tough. From what I’ve read he was just beginning to experiment with the idea and he hadn’t had much chance yet to find out what kind of consequences were possible. Don’t forget that the coroner reported there was THC in his system. Generally THC doesn’t increase a person’s tendency toward aggressiveness. It may more likely lower it. But one thing it does do is interfere with a person’s ability to make good decisions. And teens are notorious for doing that without drug-enhanced help. I can list offhand five people I knew who died under the influence of THC doing things they probably wouldn’t have done if they wouldn’t have been so mellow their brains melted. Also, remember DeeDee telling him on the phone not to mess with Zimmerman. Why would that have been necessary after telling him to run unless she thought there was a possibility he was going to try to fight? People die all the time in senseless situations. Usually it’s because they did something “inconsistent with normal human survival.” Just makes it all the more confusing for those left behind. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/745 "2013-07-03T17:37:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > and what do pathologists and medical examiners do? :rolleyes: CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/746 "2013-07-03T17:53:56Z")
> [@Mr-Pookie](#): > > Trayvon sounds like the hardest MFer in cell block D with that kind of brazen anouncement of his next move. “You’re going to die tonight” as if this was his 20th kill. Well, this is the flip side of something I and others have been saying all along - believe in Zimmerman’s (or anybody else’s) story only to the point that it is independently corroborated, by evidence or other testimony. We only have Zimmerman’s word for this, and nobody backs it up. It is not therefore false, but it is unproven. So we don’t believe it, and we don’t fall into the equal and opposite error of believing it to be false. We consider it unproven, and do not rely on it to draw a conclusion. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/747 "2013-07-03T18:07:07Z")
I’m watching defense counsel explain _to_ Chris Serino _exactly how police operate_. O’Mara spends a sentence or two spinning police work how he wishes, Serino says “Yes, sir.” Lather, rinse, repeat. :dubious: Counsel is asking nothing but leading questions, your honor. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/748 "2013-07-03T18:08:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well, this is the flip side of something I and others have been saying all along - believe in Zimmerman’s (or anybody else’s) story only to the point that it is independently corroborated, by evidence or other testimony. We only have Zimmerman’s word for this, and nobody backs it up. It is not therefore false, but it is unproven. So we don’t believe it, and we don’t fall into the equal and opposite error of believing it to be false. We consider it unproven, and do not rely on it to draw a conclusion. > > Regards, > Shodan I suppose the same is true of what Trayvon supposedly said before he died. “You got me.” People say weird stuff when they are in shock and dying. Sam Cooke, who was fatally shot by a woman, looked at her and announced the obvious, “Lady, you shot me.” But, as **Shodan** mentioned, it’s all irrelevant unless there is definitive evidence to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/749 "2013-07-03T18:08:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m watching defense counsel explain _to_ Chris Serino _exactly how police operate_. O’Mara spends a sentence or two spinning police work how he wishes, Serino says “Yes, sir.” Lather, rinse, repeat. :dubious: > > Counsel is asking nothing but leading questions, your honor. Leading questions are perfectly appropriate in that circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/750 "2013-07-03T18:10:24Z")
The prosecution will rest its case-in-chief today. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/751 "2013-07-03T18:10:46Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m watching defense counsel explain _to_ Chris Serino _exactly how police operate_. Anthony Gorgone is on the stand. Chris Serino was yesterday. Your feed is seriously delayed. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/752 "2013-07-03T18:13:22Z")
IMO Zimmerman’s testimony about exactly what Martin said has to be discounted somewhat. He was not exactly focused on what Martin was saying at the time, and Martin too was probably not making much effort to enunciate clearly and so on. Similar for the exact number of punches that Martin may have thrown and other details of that sort. If you try to put yourself in a situation where you at least believe you are struggling for your life with all the sights and sounds and try to imagine how precisely you would capture all the details - let alone remember them afterwards - ISTM it would be surprising if you consistently got everything right. On another note, the prosecution has apparently announced that they will [wrap up their case today](http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/03/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-8?hpt=hp_t2). Based on that, it would appear that the repeated speculation by **Bricker** and others that the state surely must have some hidden evidence up their sleeves that hasn’t been publicized has been in error. Question for these people now is: what do you think of (the motivation for) the state’s decision to prosecute GZ for second degree murder? I know what I think, and it’s the same as I thought all along. What about you? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/753 "2013-07-03T18:13:32Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’m watching defense counsel explain _to_ Chris Serino _exactly how police operate_. O’Mara spends a sentence or two spinning police work how he wishes, Serino says “Yes, sir.” Lather, rinse, repeat. :dubious: > > Counsel is asking nothing but leading questions, your honor. I thought opposing counsel can ask leading questions. IANAL but thought a lawyer is only prohibited from asking leading questions of his own witness, unless permission is granted to treat the witness as hostile. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/754 "2013-07-03T18:15:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Based on that, it would appear that the repeated speculation by **Bricker** and others that the state surely must have some hidden evidence up their sleeves that hasn’t been publicized has been in error. Question for these people now is: what do you think of (the motivation for) the state’s decision to prosecute GZ for second degree murder? it looks like I was very wrong with that prediction. I am quite surprised that the state moved forward with charges and that their case was this insubstantial. I believe now that the decision was political, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/755 "2013-07-03T18:17:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > On another note, the prosecution has apparently announced that they will [wrap up their case today](http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/03/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-8?hpt=hp_t2). Based on that, it would appear that the repeated speculation by **Bricker** and others that the state surely must have some hidden evidence up their sleeves that hasn’t been publicized has been in error. Well, they still have a few hours to do that. Will see. For the sake of people’s belief/trust in the judicial system, they better have something other than what was already released. If no, this is clearly prosecutorial misconduct. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/756 "2013-07-03T18:30:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Anthony Gorgone is on the stand. Chris Serino was yesterday. Your feed is seriously delayed. I watch on YouTube, clicking links arbitrarily. I’d be happy to have someone post a list of “interesting witnesses” as I’m getting seriously bored. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/757 "2013-07-03T18:34:51Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I watch on YouTube, clicking links arbitrarily. I’d be happy to have someone post a list of “interesting witnesses” as I’m getting seriously bored. 😉 [http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php?board=41.0](http://forums.talkleft.com/index.php?board=41.0) - pretty comprehensive ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/758 "2013-07-03T18:51:39Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > it looks like I was very wrong with that prediction. I am quite surprised that the state moved forward with charges and that their case was this insubstantial. > > I believe now that the decision was political, nothing more. Asked and answered. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/759 "2013-07-03T19:03:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > it looks like I was very wrong with that prediction. I am quite surprised that the state moved forward with charges and that their case was this insubstantial. > > I believe now that the decision was political, nothing more. Let me ask this - has the Defense even raised the “Self Defense” defense yet? Has the state not proven at this point that Zimmerman did “murder” Martin? Maybe I missed something - but while the state has not done a great job here ‘disproving’ self defense - I’m not entirely sure when during the case that actually gets addressed. They have pointed out many things that give ‘doubt’ to self defense - but they have not (IMHO) proven that Zimmerman had no ‘reason’ to be “in fear” or didn’t try everything else to de-escalate/move away after the fight started - but then it was a pretty short fight. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/760 "2013-07-03T19:13:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > IMO Zimmerman’s testimony about exactly what Martin said has to be discounted somewhat. He was not exactly focused on what Martin was saying at the time, and Martin too was probably not making much effort to enunciate clearly and so on. > > Similar for the exact number of punches that Martin may have thrown and other details of that sort. > > If you try to put yourself in a situation where you at least believe you are struggling for your life with all the sights and sounds and try to imagine how precisely you would capture all the details - let alone remember them afterwards - ISTM it would be surprising if you consistently got everything right. > > On another note, the prosecution has apparently announced that they will [wrap up their case today](http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07/03/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-day-8?hpt=hp_t2). Based on that, it would appear that the repeated speculation by **Bricker** and others that the state surely must have some hidden evidence up their sleeves that hasn’t been publicized has been in error. Question for these people now is: what do you think of (the motivation for) the state’s decision to prosecute GZ for second degree murder? > > I know what I think, and it’s the same as I thought all along. What about you? I’m with you on the motivation. I believe there is no way that there will be any Zimmerman testimony. The prosecutor put several statements by Zimmerman on the record. So his story is out there without any chance of cross examination. Any inconsistencies will not be that strong in a jurors mind because there was no prosecutor hammering the point home. Bad tactics. > [@Bricker](#): > > it looks like I was very wrong with that prediction. I am quite surprised that the state moved forward with charges and that their case was this insubstantial. > > I believe now that the decision was political, nothing more. Told you so 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=39)