# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/761 "2013-07-03T19:24:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The prosecution will rest its case-in-chief today. Which means Zimmerman may be home in time for the Fourth. Seriously, unless they got something big today, I can’t see a reason for the judge not to grant the motion to dismiss. The prosecution AFAICT hasn’t established anything about ill will for motive, hasn’t introduced a scrap of evidence disproving self-defense, and generally shows no sign of life. It really appears that things happened like most of us expected - overcharge Zimmerman hoping for a plea bargain, bypass the grand jury to avoid finding out how weak the general public would consider their case, and then, when Zimmerman refused to consider a plea, roll the dice at trial and hope he caves. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/762 "2013-07-03T19:26:02Z")
I for one am glad that CNN decided the fact that Egypt is about to explode is more important than 24/7 Zimmerman coverage. I didn’t check out HLN though… ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/763 "2013-07-03T19:36:47Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > And we have some indication that Trayvon, like so many young men, wanted to present himself as tough. Zimmerman picked a fight with a guy in a bar that ended up being an undercover cop. He was wearing a concealed weapon. He was taking MMA classes. His ex-girlfriend had to get a restraining order against him. He wanted to be a cop. Are you suggesting that Zimmerman wasn’t trying to present himself as tough? > [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > Don’t forget that the coroner reported there was THC in his system. Generally THC doesn’t increase a person’s tendency toward aggressiveness. It may more likely lower it. But one thing it does do is interfere with a person’s ability to make good decisions. And teens are notorious for doing that without drug-enhanced help. Interesting - you do know that George, in addition to stating that he ‘had a bad memory’ (‘I couldn’t even remember of the name of one of just three streets in my neighborhood. Oh, but I’m the neighborhood watch captain’), was also on drugs, right? What do you suppose that might have done to his ability to make good decisions? > [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > remember DeeDee telling him on the phone not to mess with Zimmerman. Cite for DeeDee telling Martin not to mess with Zimmerman? > [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > People die all the time in senseless situations. Usually it’s because they did something “inconsistent with normal human survival.” Like, for example, following an unarmed kid for a quarter of a mile first by car, then on foot after they run away, on a very dark, rainy night, with a gun? Yes, I can see how someone might end up dead from such a senseless situation. I wonder if you would be signing the same tune if Zimmerman had been the one that ended up dead. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/764 "2013-07-03T19:38:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Which means Zimmerman may be home in time for the Fourth. > > Seriously, unless they got something big today, I can’t see a reason for the judge not to grant the motion to dismiss. The prosecution AFAICT hasn’t established anything about ill will for motive, hasn’t introduced a scrap of evidence disproving self-defense, and generally shows no sign of life. I doubt it. Of course, I was wrong about the prosecution having a semi-strong case, so take this with a grain of salt… but if the reason for the trial was purely political, then the judge won’t strike the evidence now. She’ll let the case go to the jury in the hopes that they will do the right thing and a jury verdict will be more palatable to assuage public disappointment than a judge-directed acquittal. She will, in other words, hope that the jury takes her off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/765 "2013-07-03T19:44:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I doubt it. > > Of course, I was wrong about the prosecution having a semi-strong case, so take this with a grain of salt… but if the reason for the trial was purely political, then the judge won’t strike the evidence now. She’ll let the case go to the jury in the hopes that they will do the right thing and a jury verdict will be more palatable to assuage public disappointment than a judge-directed acquittal. > > She will, in other words, hope that the jury takes her off the hook. Which, you would agree, is extremely unethical. Also - the judge will have to explain her decision. Will be interesting to see the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/766 "2013-07-03T19:53:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Which, you would agree, is extremely unethical. Er… no. I think it’s less than ideal. But “extremely unethical” would be for her to kick the decision to the jury, and then fail to act even if the jury returned a guilty verdict. Of course, acting at that point would be ten times more difficult. If she hoped the jury would take her off the hook, and they don’t, THAT is when she’d have to make a decision to do the right thing (at some personal and career cost) or the easy thing. Judges in Florida face elections. I can understand a judge being reluctant to take the heat if she doesn’t have to. A jury acquittal would give her political cover and not impose much additional hardship on Zimmerman. But the downside of that calculation is the risk that the jury won’t, and the far more difficult choice as a result. > [@Terr](#): > > Also - the judge will have to explain her decision. Will be interesting to see the explanation. Not really. She can just take the motion under advisement without ruling on it, and ask the defense to begin their case. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/767 "2013-07-03T19:55:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Er… no. > > I think it’s less than ideal. But “extremely unethical” would be for her to kick the decision to the jury, and then fail to act even if the jury returned a guilty verdict. Cool. I will ask you then (because I am 100% sure she will not overturn it if that happens). In fact, I really don’t see any way for her to explain her earlier decision not to strike if she overturns the jury decision. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/768 "2013-07-03T19:58:19Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > While it certainly doesn’t hurt his case, I guess, I don’t really know why the defense would call Di Maio. (Shortened for brevity) I think it can be agreed by all that the defense is going to call “someone”. Di Maio is certainly “someone” and the defense gets to chose it’s witnesses. Is Di Maio the best they can afford? The best available? He’s certainly not the worst. Juries seemed to like/trust Di Maio’s testimony in the past which is a plus for whichever side calls him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/769 "2013-07-03T20:08:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I was wrong about the prosecution having a semi-strong case, so take this with a grain of salt… but if the reason for the trial was purely political, then the judge won’t strike the evidence now. She’ll let the case go to the jury in the hopes that they will do the right thing and a jury verdict will be more palatable to assuage public disappointment than a judge-directed acquittal. That’s a good point. I was thinking that the prosecution was the group most motivated by political considerations, but elected judges have to think about these things as well. I don’t suppose it would be kosher if the jurors sent a note to the judge saying “don’t bother - we all have reasonable doubt already, and the defense hasn’t even started their case”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/770 "2013-07-03T20:12:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Cool. I will ask you then (because I am 100% sure she will not overturn it if that happens). In fact, I really don’t see any way for her to explain her earlier decision not to strike if she overturns the jury decision. That’s why I speculated she’d take it under advisement – that way, she hasn’t made the decision; she’s holding it in abeyance. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/771 "2013-07-03T20:50:27Z")
Oops. Sounds like some of the evidence was not dried properly to preserve DNA. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/772 "2013-07-03T21:19:11Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Zimmerman picked a fight with a guy in a bar that ended up being an undercover cop. He was wearing a concealed weapon. He was taking MMA classes. His ex-girlfriend had to get a restraining order against him. He wanted to be a cop. Are you suggesting that Zimmerman wasn’t trying to present himself as tough? > Interesting - you do know that George, in addition to stating that he ‘had a bad memory’ (‘I couldn’t even remember of the name of one of just three streets in my neighborhood. Oh, but I’m the neighborhood watch captain’), was also on drugs, right? What do you suppose that might have done to his ability to make good decisions? > > Cite for DeeDee telling Martin not to mess with Zimmerman? > > Like, for example, following an unarmed kid for a quarter of a mile first by car, then on foot after they run away, on a very dark, rainy night, with a gun? Yes, I can see how someone might end up dead from such a senseless situation. > > I wonder if you would be signing the same tune if Zimmerman had been the one that ended up dead. **DragonAsh** , If you’ll recheck my post #743 you’ll see that I was responding to **Mr-Pookie** who was speculating why Trayvon would do things so contrary to self-preservation. I was offering him some possible answers. Nothing at all to do with whether Zimmerman was a worse human being than Trayvon. It’s not what the trial is about. Same with the drugs. I don’t believe they’ve even been brought up during the trial. It is possible that this was a convergence of two people making bad choices. At any rate, from my understanding and from yours also, if you’ve been following along, the court has not proved any illegal behavior on the part of Zimmerman up to the the shooting. My opinion regarding shooting deaths - I think they are tragedies and can often be avoided if both persons use their heads. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/773 "2013-07-03T21:24:59Z")
Just reread my post and see I forgot to respond about DeeDee’s warning to not mess with Zimmerman. I thought I read that last week but didn’t save it as worthwhile. Now after a thirty minute search I can’t find where I read it. If she did say that perhaps someone else will give a source. Guess the best I can do for now is that she told Trayvon to run to the house. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/774 "2013-07-03T21:51:26Z")
Looks like the prosecution did not rest its case. They pick back up on Friday morning after the holiday. I’m not sure that the DNA evidence presented so far has been particularly significant. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/775 "2013-07-03T22:45:57Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Looks like the prosecution did not rest its case. They pick back up on Friday morning after the holiday. > > I’m not sure that the DNA evidence presented so far has been particularly significant. If they couldn’t find Zimmerman’s fingerprints and DNA on the trigger and slide of his own gun, how can they find Trayvon’s? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/776 "2013-07-03T23:25:04Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly his testimony. Zimmerman was wearing the gun in a waistband holster that was near his back right-side pocket (I personally found that interesting; Zimmerman is left-handed; wouldn’t he shoot with his left hand?). Since Zimmerman says he was on his back, with Martin straddling him, the black gun - in a black holster - would have been _underneath_ him; and in fact his weight and Martin’s weight would have been resting on the gun. How does one reach for a gun that’s behind him? It was on his right side hip not his ass. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > ZImmerman says that Martin nevertheless saw the gun, sat up - both hands still smothering Zimmerman’s mouth and nose - and said, ‘you’re going to die tonight motherfucker’, at which point Martin slid his hand down Zimmerman’s chest towards George’s gun. Zimmerman used his right arm to trap Martin’s hand/arm against George’s body, and with the same right arm, pulled the gun out of the holster despite the weight pushing down on him, and shot Martin. The smothering attempt happened early in the fight according to Zimmerman. There is no evidence it continued. > [@DragonAsh](#): > > If you watch the video walkthrough, you’ll see the contorsions George would have to go through to try and pull this off. Try this at home: Lie down on the floor with your wallet in your back right pocket. Put a book between your right arm and your body. Now, without letting the book fall over, try to pull your wallet out. For extra credit, try to do this while someone is on top of you, presumably with one hand free to punch you in the face while you try it. Again, why would the gun be located out of reach? > [@DragonAsh](#): > > The Skype testimony was an absolute farce. With Webex and a host of other online meeting software available, they find a way to publish the guy’s number in a publically televised trial. Like I said - a team of braindead monkeys could prosecute this case better than the State has… Monkeys gotta earn a living too. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/777 "2013-07-03T23:27:12Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > If they couldn’t find Zimmerman’s fingerprints and DNA on the trigger and slide of his own gun, how can they find Trayvon’s? Still no cite for that ‘Zimmerman pressed the redial buttons on his phone at the start of the altercation thus completely proving his entire story’ quote huh? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/778 "2013-07-03T23:50:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > How does one reach for a gun that’s behind him? It was on his right side hip not his ass. You do not wear an inside waistband holster directly on your hip. Having it directly on your hip is not only incredibly uncomfortable - if not downright painful - since it also mysteriously coincides with the location of this thing called your _hip_ bone, it’s a particularly bad place place to carry a concealed weapon if you’re, you know - concerned about concealing it. It’ll stick out like a sore thumb, even if you try to wear a shirt or jacket over it. Don’t believe me? Don’t take my word for it - here’s Zimmerman describing -exactly- where he reached [for his gun](http://strata-sphere.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/gz_reenact_2.jpg). It’s right where you’d expect it to be with an inside waistband holster. It’s just above his right back pocket. It was underneath him. > [@Magiver](#): > > The smothering attempt happened early in the fight according to Zimmerman. There is no evidence it continued. Really? Which is it? Zimmerman said the head-banging came first, then the smothering. In fact, in his [video statement here](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/video/george-zimmerman-police-video-statements/) he says Martin saw his gun, sat up, gave his ‘you’re going to die tonight motherfucker’ speech, than ‘I felt him take one hand off my mouth’ and reach for the gun. In other words, he was being smothered immediately before pulling his gun. Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense; he said he ‘couldn’t breathe’, and felt like he was going to suffocate, but his jacket moved and exposed his gun because he was worried about the not-happening-anymore head-banging. Given the numerous and very loud blood-curdling screams that Zimmerman insists were his, Martin did a pretty piss-poor job of that whole suffocation / ‘shut the fuck up’ thing. One assumes Martin could have spent more time, oh, I don’t know, beating on Zimmerman’s’ face instead of putting two hands over George’s mouth and nose? > [@Magiver](#): > > Again, why would the gun be located out of reach? You mean, besides the fact that it was near his right back pocket, and Zimmerman would be lying on top of his own gun? With Martin on top of him? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/779 "2013-07-03T23:57:15Z")
This afternoons testimony was mind numbing. I had to turn it off. Endless lists of ares tested and the DNA results. I feel sorry for the jury today. Thats precious hours of their lives gone forever. 😉 If the identities were in question then I can understand the DNA tests. Two dudes fighting and one dead. I really don’t give a shit about whose DNA was on someones shirt collar. Or that the shirt had DNA from both people. Duh! yeah they were fighting. They are going to have each others DNA. I know they were making a point about the gun and holster. That point was lost in 4 hours of soul killing testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/780 "2013-07-04T00:22:21Z")
Ah Magiver, never without a quick answer! > [@Magiver](#): > > How does one reach for a gun that’s behind him? It was on his right side hip not his ass. _ **Cite** _, please! > [@Magiver](#): > > The smothering attempt happened early in the fight according to Zimmerman. There is no evidence it continued. _ **Cite** _, please! Especially for this one, because I’ve listened to at least three versions of Zimmy’s story and my recollection is that in at least two of them he describes the smothering as immediately preceding the shooting. And in one of them Serino busts him on it. And in none of them does he say anything about “early in the fight” and “not continuing” and I think, this part I may be wrong about, in at least one he says something like “kept smothering me/trying to smother”, absolutely implying that it continued. And finally, just how long do you think this went on altogether? My cites: [2/27:](https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=999) > [@](#): > > Serino: At what point did you draw your weapon? > Zimmerman: After he hit my head against the concrete several times… > Serino: OK. > Zimmerman: I yelled out for help and then he tried to smother my mouth and my nose… > Serino: Who yelled for help? > Zimmerman: I did. > Serino: OK and at which point he did what? > Zimmerman: He smothered my mouth and my nose. > Serino: OK. > Zimmerman: And when he did that I tried to slide out and squirm… > Serino: Uh huh > Zimmerman: And I realized, um, my, my shirt came up and I felt him slide his hand toward my right side… > Serino: OK. > Zimmerman: And he said, “You’re gonna die, motherfucker”. And then that’s when I grabbed it. I, I don’t know if it was away from him or you know, I just, unholstered.. [2/29:](https://www.txantimedia.com/?p=1079) > [@](#): > > Serino: OK, right there. He smothered you, correct? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > _**Serino: At what point did he smother you? > Zimmerman: After… > Serino: Was it right before you shot him? > Zimmerman: Right…yes, sir.**_ > Serino: OK. Immediately behind the shot? > Zimmerman: (sigh) I don’t remember. > Serino: OK. > (plays 911 call again) > Serino: I need you to give me an approximate time of when he starts to smother you. > Zimmerman: I don’t know when. It’s hard to… > Serino: That’s you, yelling for help. > Zimmerman: (unintelligible) > Serino: Help me, help me. > Serino: That’s when you shot him. (clears his throat) Can you recall (coughs) excuse me…at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to, prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: OK. And you were able to reach into your holster. > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: OK. You shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=40)