# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/961 "2013-07-05T17:04:30Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I can’t see how even the most strident Martin supporter that thinks Zimmerman should burn in hell for all eternity could watch this slow-motion car-wreck and think that the state has even one good moment so far. None, zero, zilch. Have I got a site that would provide a good dose of hilariousness for you then. It’s [frederickleatherman.com](http://frederickleatherman.com) The posters there, including the top moron, think that the prosecution is doing a brilliant, bang-up job, Don West is an incompetent bumbler, and Zimmerman is practically in prison already, for life. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/962 "2013-07-05T17:05:59Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I made no such thing. I simply asked a question. > > - Honesty Honestly? [QUOTE=Honesty] The frequency isn’t a problem, but calling the police because your roommate brought someone you didn’t like or **calling the cops because you your landlord wants his/her rent is abusing the system**. Zimmerman was entitled. [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. Maybe proclamation is an exaggeration, but can we agree that this is not a question? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/963 "2013-07-05T17:14:19Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [_Brady_ disclosure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_disclosure) Thanks. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/964 "2013-07-05T17:14:32Z")
I keep thinking back to the Scott Peterson trial. I thought he was guilty as hell. Also thought the State had about zero chance of convicting him based on the evidence they had. No cause of death, no identified time of death, onlly circumstantial evidence and his ‘behavior’…I thought there was way more evidence to convict Casey Anthony, but she walked, while Peterson’s on death row. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/965 "2013-07-05T17:24:47Z")
Legal question, if the ME cannot recall the autopsy and is relying solely on his notes, isn’t Z’s right to confront his accusers by meaningful cross examination being impaired? Shouldn’t his entire testimony be stricken? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/966 "2013-07-05T17:28:05Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I keep thinking back to the Scott Peterson trial. I thought he was guilty as hell. Also thought the State had about zero chance of convicting him based on the evidence they had. No cause of death, no identified time of death, onlly circumstantial evidence and his ‘behavior’…I thought there was way more evidence to convict Casey Anthony, but she walked, while Peterson’s on death row. And California also botched one of the most open-and-shut murder cases of all time, O.J. Simpson’s murder of Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. Maybe, just maybe, you can’t judge an entire state’s legal apparatus by two cases. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/967 "2013-07-05T17:53:54Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Eh, not really. Zimmerman has had a trail of problems with law enforcement and likely suffers from poor impulse control (ADD). When you take his phone calls in aggregate, he profiled black men and used the 911 and NEN system his personal toy when he didn’t get his way. > > Wow, talk about stereotyping. Since you jumped off the cliff, it’s my turn to stereotype now with a little of psychoanalysis on top. I think Zimmerman is an unemotional narcissist who was told all his life that he was special and that he would do great things. Despite unwavering confidence from his family, Zimmerman is, and remains, a high-school graduate who was unable to complete his degree program, unable to excel at work due to conflicts with his colleagues, ineligible to be a cop due to his prior record. Underneath Zimmerman’s mint-flavored saccharin exterior, lies a fuming, little man that’s prone to fits of anger and outrage. This, of course, leads to disrespect to minorities, such as women, which has bubbled up to the surface as domestic violence, child molestation, and propensity to report minorities to the 911/NEN. > > I suspect Zimmerman, like many of his supporters, are annoyed - not frustrated - by the charges against him. Zimmerman is annoyed because he has been taught that the blood of African-Americans is cheap in this country. He must be wracking his brain at night, thinking, _Why all the fuss for killing this black kid? He would’ve died anyway in some gang fight._ This is precisely why people like Sean Hannity and Bill O’Reilly fell over themselves to defend Zimmerman. The role was to make Zimmerman an idol, a victim, and a martyr against the fictional tide black-on-white crime (e.g. “THE BLKS R GNNA GT U!!11oneone”). To them, Zimmerman isn’t just a victim, he’s a _hero_ who stepped into the lion’s den with a black thug/ruffian/gangster and showed them blacks who’s boss. > > . > > - Honesty While I don’t think it’s _quite_ as racist as you do, I’d like to give you a standing ovation for that analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/968 "2013-07-05T17:54:03Z")
The judge just ruled that even though the ME testified that it is NOW his opinion that the THC in Martin’s blood may have affected his behavior, she still is disallowing the THC testimony. IMO (and in the opinion of several lawyers following the trial) this is a really bad decision by the judge, and grounds for reversal on appeal if/when it happens. **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/969 "2013-07-05T17:57:11Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Legal question, if the ME cannot recall the autopsy and is relying solely on his notes, isn’t Z’s right to confront his accusers by meaningful cross examination being impaired? Shouldn’t his entire testimony be stricken? No. The notes themselves are admissible (business records hearsay exception). ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/970 "2013-07-05T17:59:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The judge just ruled that even though the ME testified that it is NOW his opinion that the THC in Martin’s blood may have affected his behavior, she still is disallowing the THC testimony. > > IMO (and in the opinion of several lawyers following the trial) this is a really bad decision by the judge, and grounds for reversal on appeal if/when it happens. **Bricker**? It’s not the decision I would have made, but it’s not (imho) reversible error. Decisions like this are left to the “sound discretion” of the trial judge, and won’t be disturbed on appeal unless they are clearly an abuse of discretion – unless, in other words, no reasonable judge would have decided this way. THC is not known to reliably produce rage or violence. Allowing testimony about something that might have happened, without a better foundation, isn’t clearly necessary. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/971 "2013-07-05T18:03:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > The notes themselves are admissible (business records hearsay exception). Didn’t Crawford v. Washington hold that hearsay exceptions must comport with the Confrontation Clause? Also, wow. The ME testifies that Martin may have been intoxicated by marijuana on the night of the shooting and that’s NOT admissible??? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/972 "2013-07-05T18:04:59Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > I can’t see how even the most strident Martin supporter that thinks Zimmerman should burn in hell for all eternity could watch this slow-motion car-wreck and think that the state has even one good moment so far. None, zero, zilch. It’s a shame our most strident Martin supporter won’t answer this question. She clearly does believe the state’s had some good moments, based on her reaction posts here. She really doesn’t say _why_ she thinks that. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/973 "2013-07-05T18:06:23Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > As I stated in another thread, it is my sincere belief that the prosecution wants Mr. Zimmerman to be acquitted, and they were simply “going through the motion.” You’d think they could have laid the charges and then let it die out somehow. The controversy died down after the charges were laid, and the story was out of the papers. Their complete lack of effort to even make it look like they’re trying to convict someone of something is, to say the least, bizarre. Or maybe it’s not. Maybe the political pressure brought to bear left them no choice but to go out and play the game even knowing they’d be slaughtered. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/974 "2013-07-05T18:09:24Z")
Regarding the testimony of Martin’s mother, can someone explain to me how it fits in with the prosecution’s theory of the case? Is it the prosecution’s position that at some point prior to opening fire, Zimmerman was on top of Martin beating on him? Put another way, according to the prosecution, what exactly was happening which caused Martin to be screaming for help? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/975 "2013-07-05T18:10:31Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Didn’t Crawford v. Washington hold that hearsay exceptions must comport with the Confrontation Clause? No. Only _testimonial_ evidence admitted via a hearsay exception is subject to the rule announced in _Crawford_. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/976 "2013-07-05T18:13:06Z")
How many autopsies on teenagers does this ME do so that he can’t recall anything about Martin’s autopsy? Seems strange to me. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/977 "2013-07-05T18:17:00Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > You might want to leave the eye-rolling bit to DeeDee, though, as it was _much_ funnier when she did it. You should tell that to your black friends. Let me know what they think. 😉 - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/978 "2013-07-05T18:17:04Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That’s one possible interpretation. Another is that this is what a prosecution based on insufficient evidence and demanded by politics looks like: desperate and fumbling. > > This might be close to the strongest case the prosecution could have made, considering how little evidence they had, and how clearly the people who actually investigated the crime concluded that Zimmerman was most likely innocent, or at least couldn’t be proven guilty. I agree with this. Once they decided to prosecute in the face of the evidence, a lot of their strategy became almost inevitable. For example, they’ve been criticized a lot for putting Zimmerman’s interviews up, thus allowing him to “testify” virtually with no cross-examination. But you have to consider the alternatives. How much other evidence do they have? Zimmerman’s inconsistencies are a huge part of the case against him. I don’t think much of these inconsistencies, but if the prosecution has any hope of convicting him, they need to hope the jury does. So they pretty much have to do it. And so on for other witnesses and evidence. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/979 "2013-07-05T18:17:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. Only _testimonial_ evidence admitted via a hearsay exception is subject to the rule announced in _Crawford_. IIRC, the gravaman of what made something “testimonial” was that it was prepared in anticipation of future litigation. How is making findings during an autopsy of a 17 year old killed by a gunshot not in preparation for litigation? The coroner must know that his report will be used at trial. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/980 "2013-07-05T18:18:12Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Regarding the testimony of Martin’s mother, can someone explain to me how it fits in with the prosecution’s theory of the case? > > Is it the prosecution’s position that at some point prior to opening fire, Zimmerman was on top of Martin beating on him? > > Put another way, according to the prosecution, what exactly was happening which caused Martin to be screaming for help? **brazil84** , I miss you, though I liked you better when you were on our side. 🆒 - Honesty [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=50)