# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1001 "2013-07-05T19:24:40Z")
Defense is currently asking for judgement as a matter of law - that is, acquittal because of no case by prosecution. West: “the prosecution’s case… I am not sure WHAT the prosecution’s case is.” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1002 "2013-07-05T19:29:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Defense is currently asking for judgement as a matter of law - that is, acquittal because of no case by prosecution. West: “the prosecution’s case… I am not sure WHAT the prosecution’s case is.” I’m watching on CNN Headline News which pauses for commercial breaks. The prosecutor just began its redirect of the ME. How far behind am I? What channel are you watching? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1003 "2013-07-05T19:31:25Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I’m watching on CNN Headline News which pauses for commercial breaks. The prosecutor just began its redirect of the ME. How far behind am I? What channel are you watching? Wow you are seriously behind. [http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/](http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/) - IMO the best and least talking-head-cluttered feed. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1004 "2013-07-05T19:41:29Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What is the largest supposed lie that Z has been caught in? All of the inconsistencies I’ve seen are in the “He said it was green, but it was really chartreuse” variety. This must be the first case ever in which meaningless minor variations in a story prove guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1005 "2013-07-05T19:53:08Z")
Defense’s motion accepts manslaughter instruction for the jury – defense just argued that at the very least, the second-degree murder charge should be thrown out and the jury consider manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1006 "2013-07-05T20:01:01Z")
Really? Do I understand that correctly? They just had a 2nd degree murder case won (ostensibly) , and now they’re saying … hey, let’s put manslaughter on the table? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1007 "2013-07-05T20:10:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > John Guy’s opening statement: gun was pressed against Martin’s chest. > Dr. Bao’s testimony today: gun did not contact Martin’s skin. > > This is like \*\*Fantasy Island \*\*for defense lawyers. **Mr. Rourke** must have appeared and said that O’Mara requested just one trial where the prosecution would fumble every witness. LOL. Boss. Da plane, da plane. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1008 "2013-07-05T20:17:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The civil trial is not inevitable. Depending on the jury’s decision, Zimmerman may be immune to civil trial. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but Florida law doesn’t allow a civil trial if the defendant is cleared in a SYG hearing. GZ still has the option of asking for a SYG hearing. FLA law doesn’t specifically deny a civil case following the finding of a self-defense defense. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1009 "2013-07-05T20:32:40Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but Florida law doesn’t allow a civil trial if the defendant is cleared in a SYG hearing. GZ still has the option of asking for a SYG hearing. > > FLA law doesn’t specifically deny a civil case following the finding of a self-defense defense. Added late - \*776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.— (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant. (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful. (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).\* [http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-stand-your-ground-statute.html](http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-stand-your-ground-statute.html) ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1010 "2013-07-05T20:41:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Defense’s motion accepts manslaughter instruction for the jury – defense just argued that at the very least, the second-degree murder charge should be thrown out and the jury consider manslaughter. Cool. What’s the max sentence on that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1011 "2013-07-05T20:43:34Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Your ability to understand the law is highly questionably, **Bricker**. . Umm, which one is the actual IRL lawyer now? Member of the bar, law school, JS degree, etc? “questionably”😕 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1012 "2013-07-05T20:44:01Z")
Motion’s gotta be denied on Jeantel’s “get off” testimony, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1013 "2013-07-05T20:49:38Z")
What do \*you \*do for a living, YWTF? What Law school is your degree from? I mean, sure, it’s one thing to be sure in your hearts of hearts that Zimmerman is guilty as hell. I can understand that. But- the Prosecution’s case has been shown to be very weak so far. > **[MSNBC Panel Concedes Prosecution’s Case Is Weak, ‘Little Hope’ Zimmerman Will...](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbc-panel-concedes-prosecutions-case-is-weak-little-hope-zimmerman-will-be-convicted/)** > > During MSNBC's Martin Bashir on Tuesday, the entire panel of contributors and guests conceded that the prosecution has done a poor job of framing George Zimmerman as being guilty of second degree murder when he shot and killed Tryavon Martin in 2012.... \*During MSNBC’s Martin Bashir on Tuesday, the entire panel of contributors and guests conceded that the prosecution has done a poor job of framing George Zimmerman as being guilty of second degree murder when he shot and killed Tryavon Martin in 2012. One guest noted that, given the weakness of the evidence presented against Zimmerman thus far, the state would likely be wrapping up the prosecution phase soon. John Jay College forensics professor Lawrence Kobilinsky told Joy-Ann Reid that the evidence thus far presented against Zimmerman is insufficient to prove second degree murder. “What I’m hearing is the state’s case is getting weaker and weaker as every day goes by,” he said. “I think they’re going to be wrapping up pretty soon.” “I have to agree with the people who spoke before me,” said MSNBC contributor Goldie Taylor after dismissing the prosecution’s effort to frame Zimmerman as delusional. “Even though I’ve got some problems with George Zimmerman’s testimony – even though I have a problem with how it seems to not jive with the physical evidence we’ve heard so far — that I think the prosecution has got to put on a much stronger case.” Georgetown University Professor Michael Eric Dyson agreed. “I don’t think there is much expectation that Mr. Zimmerman will be found guilty,” he said\*“questionably”😕 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1014 "2013-07-05T20:53:39Z")
As expected, the judge denies the directed verdict motion orally, without any reasoning. Didn’t even pretend to consider it. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1015 "2013-07-05T20:58:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > As expected, the judge denies the directed verdict motion orally, without any reasoning. Didn’t even pretend to consider it. No reason to. Ain’t complicated. There’s more than enough evidence to give to a jury to decide. Have to say it was good to hear the prosecutor clearly lay it out exactly as it’s always clearly looked to my eye. And the defense guy was kind of obnoxious in his “Oh PUHLEEZE!” attitude. I hadn’t heard about Zimmerman’s application for whatever it was where he wrote that he wanted to “hunt fugitives”. Ew. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1016 "2013-07-05T21:01:17Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Motion’s gotta be denied on Jeantel’s “get off” testimony, right? Absolutely, but I think YWTF made an excellent point: with or without the “get off” testimony, how likely is it that Martin was going to start something while he’s on a phone call? And do we know if he was holding it in his hand? Seems pretty unlikely, as does the idea that Martin would through a punch in response to the question “what are you doing here?” ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1017 "2013-07-05T21:10:54Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > No reason to. Ain’t complicated. There’s more than enough evidence to give to a jury to decide. On what evidence can you say that Z killed Martin with a depraved heart, not in self defense, and beyond a reasonable doubt? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1018 "2013-07-05T21:19:22Z")
On this motion, all you really have to do is credit Jeantel’s testimony that she heard Martin say “get off, get off” and did not hear what Zimmerman said occurred at the T. If that’s true, and she’s right that it was Martin’s voice, that’s a pretty gaping hole in Zimmerman’s account of what happened in those critical moments. Certainly sufficient for a jury to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman started the fight. Then you credit the testimony that it was Martin’s voice yelling for help, and I think you probably have enough. Of course, I think no one would credit Jeantel’s testimony or believe with certainty that it was Martin’s voice. But that’s not the question on this motion. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1019 "2013-07-05T21:25:21Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Of course, I think no one would credit Jeantel’s testimony or believe with certainty that it was Martin’s voice. But that’s not the question on this motion. But isn’t that the question? Not whether some hypothetical person could believe her testimony (and ignore everything else) but whether a reasonable juror would find beyond a reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1020 "2013-07-05T21:29:05Z")
No, I don’t think so. My understanding is that, on a motion for directed verdict, the judge is to assume that the jury credits the testimony that is favorable to the state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=52)