# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1021 "2013-07-05T21:30:51Z")
**Bricker** (or any other lawyer who is following the case closely), In your assessment, do this judge’s rulings during this trial tend to favor the prosecution or the defense or neither? Note that I’m not suggesting that any of her rulings are incorrect as a matter of law. But obviously there is room within the law for some things to go either way (otherwise there would be no arguments over them) so my question is whether on such issues she has a tendency to favor the prosecution side or the defense or neither. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1022 "2013-07-05T21:31:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > \*\*\*you want a cite that Zimmerman placed a gun on himself where he couldn’t reach it? Is that what you’re asking? \*\*\*[This](http://www.readyholster.com/images/holsters/side_holster/autos/sideholsterbeltcliptwenty_1.jpg)is what a belt clip holster looks like. you set up up for cross reach or same-side reach. No. I was asking for you to cite because you were refuting DragonAsh’s assertion about what _Zimmerman himself stated_. Perhaps you aren’taware that you do it, but you have frequently made arguments to support Zimmerman that he never made, or which counter his own story, or in other ways add/change/subtract from the record and facts. Here’s DragonASH describing his understanding of what Zimmerman himself said answering Mr. Pookie’s question "did Zimmerman say that Trayvon saw the weapon and then utter “you are going to die tonight”: > [@DragonAsh](#): > > Yes, that’s exactly his testimony. Zimmerman was wearing the gun in a waistband holster that was near his back right-side pocket (I personally found that interesting; Zimmerman is left-handed; wouldn’t he shoot with his left hand?). Since Zimmerman says he was on his back, with Martin straddling him, the black gun - in a black holster - would have been _underneath_ him; and in fact his weight and Martin’s weight would have been resting on the gun. > > ZImmerman says that Martin nevertheless saw the gun, sat up - both hands still smothering Zimmerman’s mouth and nose - and said, ‘you’re going to die tonight motherfucker’, at which point Martin slid his hand down Zimmerman’s chest towards George’s gun. Zimmerman used his right arm to trap Martin’s hand/arm against George’s body, and with the same right arm, pulled the gun out of the holster despite the weight pushing down on him, and shot Martin. Your response was to actually undermine Zimmerman himself by saying > [@](#): > > How does one reach for a gun that’s behind him? It was on his right side hip not his ass. And since you seem to be saying that Zimmerman said something different, I asked you to cite where the testimony/evidence shows that Zimmerman’s gun was not where DA understood it to be, and rather where you say. Instead of looking to the record of Zimmerman’s claims, you show me a picture of a belt clip holster. Someone else has pointed out that it is not the type of holster Zimmerman was wearing, so aside from avoiding the record, how is that a cite? > [@](#): > > according to his video reenactment it happened before the person came to the door. So this appears to be a tacit admission that Zimmerman’s story changes, and you seem to be selecting the one version that supports your argument refuting DA’s description of Zimmerman’s claims about how the shooting itself occurred. I assume you chose to try and refute because you see that his story is very difficult to believe. > [@](#): > > What part of “I don’t remember” are you using as a cite for when he was smothered? According to Zimmerman Martin did this to shut him up. This was his testimony before all the evidence of someone yelling was available. What part of this are you ignoring: February 27th: > [@](#): > > Serino: OK and at which point he did what? > Zimmerman: He smothered my mouth and my nose. > Serino: OK. > Zimmerman: And when he did that I tried to slide out and squirm… > Serino: Uh huh > Zimmerman: And I realized, um, my, my shirt came up and I felt him slide his hand toward my right side… Seems very clear that the smothering was followed immediately the shirt slide and gun grab. Two days later he still remembers it the same way, except this time Serino is questioning him in such a way that Zimmerman is starting to realize his story doesn’t make sense, and _ **something** _ has to give: his claim that it’s him yelling, or the shirtsliding, or the smothering…something: February 29th > [@](#): > > Serino: OK, right there. He smothered you, correct? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: At what point did he smother you? > Zimmerman: After… > Serino: Was it right before you shot him? > Zimmerman: Right…yes, sir. > Serino: OK. Immediately behind the shot? > Zimmerman: (sigh) I don’t remember. > Serino: OK. > (plays 911 call again) > Serino: I need you to give me an approximate time of when he starts to smother you. > Zimmerman: I don’t know when. It’s hard to… > Serino: That’s you, yelling for help. > Zimmerman: (unintelligible) > Serino: Help me, help me. > Serino: That’s when you shot him. (clears his throat) Can you recall (coughs) excuse me…at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to, prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: OK. And you were able to reach into your holster. > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: OK. You shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right? > Zimmerman: Yes, sir. > Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So… Now I confess I cannot put together what you are saying when you say:“This was his testimony before all the evidence of someone yelling was available.” - can you help me with that? Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1023 "2013-07-05T21:32:58Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > On what evidence can you say that Z killed Martin with a depraved heart, not in self defense, and beyond a reasonable doubt? It doesn’t have to be beyond a reasonable doubt to deny the motion for acquittal. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1024 "2013-07-05T21:34:14Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > On what evidence can you say that Z killed Martin with a depraved heart, not in self defense, and beyond a reasonable doubt? The evidence doesn’t have to reach that standard for the motion to be denied, there merely has to be _some_ evidence for each element of the crime. The prosecution could be argued to have barely reached that standard, but there’s no chance an honest jury could find him guilty. It’s probably better overall that it goes to the jury, as then no-one can claim he got off on a technicality, no matter how silly that claim would sound to anyone who actually understands what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1025 "2013-07-05T21:42:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > No, I don’t think so. My understanding is that, on a motion for directed verdict, the judge is to assume that the jury credits the testimony that is favorable to the state. I don’t dispute what you are saying because I’m not familiar with the peculiarities of Florida law, but that would seem to make a Judgment of Acquittal almost a nullity. The state could inadvertently show that the defendant was a thousand miles away at the time of the murder, confirmed by three priests, a nun, and the victim’s brother, but it also puts on testimony of one insane homeless drunk who says he thought he saw a guy that looked like the defendant two blocks over. Under your standard, the judge would have to ignore the evidence and simply credit the crazy homeless guy under the theory that a similarly crazy juror might buy the testimony. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1026 "2013-07-05T21:48:16Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t dispute what you are saying because I’m not familiar with the peculiarities of Florida law, but that would seem to make a Judgment of Acquittal almost a nullity. > > The state could inadvertently show that the defendant was a thousand miles away at the time of the murder, confirmed by three priests, a nun, and the victim’s brother, but it also puts on testimony of one insane homeless drunk who says he thought he saw a guy that looked like the defendant two blocks over. > > Under your standard, the judge would have to ignore the evidence and simply credit the crazy homeless guy under the theory that a similarly crazy juror might buy the testimony. That sounds about right, as I understand it. It is solely the job of the jury to decide matters of fact. The judge decides matters of law. If there is, in law, insufficient evidence to find guilt, the judge may act. If it’s a judgement of the quality of the evidence, that’s the job of the jury. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1027 "2013-07-05T23:19:32Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What do \*you \*do for a living, YWTF? Assuming I remember correctly, she’s got a serious degree in a biology field, and actually makes public policy in her field. I wouldn’t go making light of someone, just because she insists on pontificating outside her field. Law? Ignore her. She’s just as biased as your average internet idiot. Ask her about _her_ field? Prepare to get buried, burned, and your family name wiped from history. Can _you_ show, and are you _willing_ to show your expertise in some field important in public policy? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1028 "2013-07-05T23:33:55Z")
I’ve merged two threads about this into one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1029 "2013-07-06T00:01:50Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Assuming I remember correctly, she’s got a serious degree in a biology field, and actually makes public policy in her field. I wouldn’t go making light of someone, just because she insists on pontificating outside her field. Law? Ignore her. She’s just as biased as your average internet idiot. Ask her about _her_ field? Prepare to get buried, burned, and your family name wiped from history. Can _you_ show, and are you _willing_ to show your expertise in some field important in public policy? If so, I have never seen it. I wasn’t making light of her opinion, hell, I even said I understand and value her opinion. But she? attacked a well known legal expert and lawyer …in his field. My field of expertise is code enforcement and anti-money laundering, which includes terrorist financing . Some would think that’s important in public policy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1030 "2013-07-06T00:57:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > If so, I have never seen it. I wasn’t making light of her opinion, hell, I even said I understand and value her opinion. But she? attacked a well known legal expert and lawyer …in his field. That’s why I said you can ignore her, outside of her field. It _has_ been rather sad watching her lose her shit, on legal matters. Nevertheless, as I said, IIRC, she’s _not_ someone to trifle with, when she speaks on matters of animal medicine and the public policy thereof. > [@](#): > > My field of expertise is code enforcement and anti-money laundering, which includes terrorist financing . Some would think that’s important in public policy. I not only don’t dispute that, I agree wholeheartedly. You are useful to society. And someone like me made sure the building you (and **YWTF** ) work in didn’t fall down on top of you, while you were doing your work. We all do our bit. But one cannot rely on our opinions, when they are outside our area of expertise. She’s gotten outside her area of expertise on this one, but how much ‘expertise’ does _**[redacted]**_\* (for example) have? It’s not like _she_ hasn’t continuously pontificated on this case, despite an _incredible_ lack of knowledge on both this case, and how the law, and even reality actually works. There are _far_ more deserving people to save your contempt for. **YWTF** doesn’t deserve the contempt you seem to be trying to dish out, here. [sub]\*Eliminate the name. Getting banned will _not_ advance my argument. Won’t be useful to go there.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1031 "2013-07-06T00:59:33Z")
Geez that judge is getting downright abrupt and irritable. Defense calls two witnesses and the judge seemed really curt and pissed off. Totally different from earlier this week. She better rethink banning the toxicology reports. All the legal analysts are saying that the M.E.'s statement about marijuana effecting Trayvon makes it relevant. The judge risks having the verdict overturned if she doesn’t let it in. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1032 "2013-07-06T01:13:34Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Do you have a cite on that? I didn’t know this. Thanks. > [@Crotalus](#): > > Did you read the info at Iggy’s link? It’s not the clearest narrative I’ve ever seen, and the site is strongly anti-Zimmerman, but it says:I think the 1056 means that Zimmerman was claiming that the landlord was drunk, and the rest of it seems to indicate that the landlord confronted Zimmerman in a shopping center demanding rent. If Zimmerman had a Silver BMW, then it sounds like the drunk landlord tried to take it. … Some agencies use [10 codes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-code). Some use only plain language. Both tend to use abbreviations when recording information from callers. Not all jurisdictions use the same 10 codes. A 10-56 code is commonly used to mean Intoxicated Pedestrian but could, in theory, have a [completely different meaning in a different jurisdiction](http://www.fema.gov/frequently-asked-questions-2#item5). In my experience, it would be unusual for a caller (other than a police officer) to say, “I am calling to report a 10-56” when speaking to 9-1-1 or the NEN dispatcher. It would not be unusual for the call taker to record “10-56” in the notes section to describe an intoxicated pedestrian even if the caller never used that 10-code. Notes are commonly abbreviated. I would have to listen to actual recordings of the calls to know what Zimmerman actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1033 "2013-07-06T02:20:22Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Some agencies use [10 codes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten-code). Some use only plain language. Both tend to use abbreviations when recording information from callers. > > Not all jurisdictions use the same 10 codes. A 10-56 code is commonly used to mean Intoxicated Pedestrian but could, in theory, have a [completely different meaning in a different jurisdiction](http://www.fema.gov/frequently-asked-questions-2#item5). > > In my experience, it would be unusual for a caller (other than a police officer) to say, “I am calling to report a 10-56” when speaking to 9-1-1 or the NEN dispatcher. It would not be unusual for the call taker to record “10-56” in the notes section to describe an intoxicated pedestrian even if the caller never used that 10-code. Notes are commonly abbreviated. I would have to listen to actual recordings of the calls to know what Zimmerman actually said. I got the impression reading your link that those were the 911 operator’s notes, not transcripts of what the caller said. ---
**Author:** ![keyedentry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/94ad74/32.png) [@keyedentry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keyedentry)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1034 "2013-07-06T02:59:50Z")
Can anyone posit why the State did not call Gilbreath and O’Steen, the authors of the probable cause affadavit? Obviously the negatives outweighed the positives, but why? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1035 "2013-07-06T03:30:58Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I _think_ there will have to be a separate immunity hearing, such as the one that was mooted prior to the trial. I think the question of why they didn’t go ahead has been clearly answered, as the idea that Zimmerman is guilty is now laughably absurd. > > But you’re correct that Florida law provides complete immunity from legal action for those who legitimately act in self defence. I’ll be interested to see what compensation Zimmerman gets, and what penalties the various State authorities get, should he obtain immunity. I know little about civil law. Does immunity against civil action under Florida law mean anything with regards to a federal lawsuit? > [@Stoid](#): > > No reason to. Ain’t complicated. There’s more than enough evidence to give to a jury to decide. And don’t underestimate the political presure on an elected judge. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1036 "2013-07-06T03:32:13Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I got the impression reading your link that those were the 911 operator’s notes, not transcripts of what the caller said. There is no reason to transcribe routine 911 calls. Those are dispatcher notes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1037 "2013-07-06T04:09:35Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > According to Dee Dee, Martin was ‘near’ his house. Depending on context, the 7-11 a mile away could be ‘near’. Compared to the clubhouse mailbox kiosk where he was previously, moving up the cut-through could be ‘near’. Pretty meaningless. except you keep forgetting that he said this in response to why he wasn’t going to run to his house. Because he was right by his house. Not “near”, RIGHT BY. He’s given a reason for not having to run to the hose. In court she puts Martin at his dad’s house. > [@Predict the Outcome of Florida vs. George Zimmerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/116): > > I should point out how hilarious it is that Team Zimmerman finds Dee Dee completely unreliable when she says something incriminating for Zimmerman (‘Zimmerman suddenly appeared behind Martin’, 'I heard Martin say ‘get off, get off’), She said she heard it a little bit. She was asked to clarify this and she said it again. She heard it a little bit. Logically the person saying this would not whisper this but say it LOUDER. If it was Martin she would have heard it clearly. So it had to be said away from the microphone. The only other person there away from the microphone is the person claiming he was attacked which would coincide with Zimmerman’s account. His account is backed up with witnesses to an attack and physical evidence of an attack. You’re absolutely grasping at straws here. > [@Predict the Outcome of Florida vs. George Zimmerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/predict-the-outcome-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman/661528/116): > > [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]And we wonder why the rest of the world looks at the US gun culture and shakes its collective head. > [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I am willing to bet every dollar in my pocket, against every dollar in your pocket, that people carrying guns shoot more people than people not carrying guns. I would also bet that people carrying guns shoot more unarmed people than people not carrying guns. > > [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]Objection - relevance. I don’t think I’ve followed your sub-thread here, but what is this even supposed to show? A belt clip holster worn on the belt has the gun -outside- of your persons. Zimmerman had an inner waistband holster; the gun was tucked inside his waistband, near his rear back pocket and concealed by his shirt & jacket.[/SIZE][/FONT] :dubious: He’s going to drive in a car with a gun over his rear back pocket where it will be extremely uncomfortable and hard to reach on top of wearing a jacket. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1038 "2013-07-06T04:31:17Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I got the impression reading your link that those were the 911 operator’s notes, not transcripts of what the caller said. Exactly. There are very few instances where a caller’s words would be taken down verbatim at the time of the call. All 9-1-1 calls are routinely recorded and can be transcribed later, if needed. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1039 "2013-07-06T05:19:29Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > I’ve mentioned that before, though it went unanswered. TM was, to quote other members of the board, “a minor, a child, a high school kid.” > > Who is ultimately responsible for the actions of a minor? > > The parents. > > And where were they? When, according to sworn statements, was the last time Tray’s mother _actually_ saw him? > > Where was his father the night Tray was killed? > > And since, ya know, they _weren’t around_, when can we expect their trial for negligence? After all, their minor child is dead and he shouldn’t be. You aren’t serious about this, are you? How could you be, no 17-year-old is under the supervised presence of their parents 24 hours a day. It’s a silly thing to say. > [@brazil84](#): > > Regarding the testimony of Martin’s mother, can someone explain to me how it fits in with the prosecution’s theory of the case? > > Is it the prosecution’s position that at some point prior to opening fire, Zimmerman was on top of Martin beating on him? > > Put another way, according to the prosecution, what exactly was happening which caused Martin to be screaming for help? Try this on for size: he was struggling to prevent Zimmerman from pointing the gun and shooting him. > [@Magiver](#): > > :dubious: He’s going to drive in a car with a gun over his rear back pocket where it will be extremely uncomfortable and hard to reach on top of wearing a jacket. What exactly are you trying to say? [This](http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/George-Zimmermans-gun-magazine-and-holster-courtesy-nbcmiami.com_.png) is his weapon and holster. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1040 "2013-07-06T05:29:57Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > She better rethink banning the toxicology reports. All the legal analysts are saying that the M.E.'s statement about marijuana effecting Trayvon makes it relevant. The judge risks having the verdict overturned if she doesn’t let it in. ## She ought to ban them because, biologically, ~4 ng/mL of THC is not psychoactive. Bao’s testimony is akin to tea leaves: if you stare hard enough, you can see anything. He was too caught up in not perjuring himself to be a witness. The lawyer would be better to recruit a medical doctor to get an expert opinion rather than the guy who performs the autopsy. Also! Why the long faces everyone? Let’s talk about the defense’s great witnesses today! C’mon guys! Cheer up! Buck up! It’s a beautiful day! Ms. Zimmerman: Wasn’t she a fabulous witness? She was already saying “That’s my son” before the lawyer opened his mouth. Good grief woman, hush your mouth and allow the guy to ask you the question first. The Uncle: Wasn’t he a fabulous witness? While I could not help but feel a certain amount of admiration for him, it was clear he’s lying right through his teeth. The defense did a great job by inadvertently highlighting that George’s Uncle is a police captain, as it adds strength to the hypothesis Zimmerman was versed in the law before he donned his Inspector Gadget uniform. The Uncle is there as moral support for his sister, nothing more, nothing less. When will we see Zimmerman’s white side of the family or is it that only his Hispanic side is willing to go to bat for him? - Honesty [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=53)