# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1081 "2013-07-06T17:08:29Z")
> [@sugaree](#): > > They probably are, at least in part, since the vast majority of Peruvians claim mestizo or full Amerindian descent. But I’m a big believer in calling people what they want to be called, and Gladys, George, and Robert Jr. refer to themselves as Hispanic, and occasionally Afro-Peruvian. Yes, they are quite diverse. Pictures of Great Grandpa are representative of the African part of their heritage. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1082 "2013-07-06T17:14:37Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Did ya not notice in the very post that you quoted from me that I _specifically mention_ the cognitive development of the prefrontal cortex? I did well enough in neurological psychology in college to make it into Psi Chi. I’m happy to scan my membership card for ya, if you’d like to trade credentials. You know, since we’re talking about people’s expertise and history and all. Hehe, I would trade my credentials but I’d hate to embarrass you in front of your friends. Let’s just say that while you were learning about action potentials in class, I was recording them using a patch clamp to obtain data for a first-author publication. So unless you’re on Pubmed: “Go hard or Go home” as you put it. But not all is lost, **BlakeTyner** , I’m a nice person and I’ll hold your hand through the biology lessons; it will, of course, be up to you, but I got you, I’m here for you, I love you, and we’re going to get through this together. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1083 "2013-07-06T17:17:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Boa was a prosecution’s witness. You really have no clue, do you? I knew that, of course: I’m puzzled as to why you think otherwise. In my post, I contrasted the lack of response between DeeDee’s testimony and Dr. Boa’s testimony as a separate point. The defense witnesses that I talked about, unless something changed, was Zimmerman’s mother and uncle. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1084 "2013-07-06T17:17:52Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Hehe, I would trade my credentials but I’d hate to embarrass you in front of your friends. Let’s just say that while you were learning about action potentials in class, I was recording them using a patch clamp to obtain data for a first-author publication. So unless you’re on Pubmed: “Go hard or Go home” as you put it. But not all is lost, _BlakeTyner_, I’m a nice person and I’ll hold your hand through the biology lessons; it will, of course, be up to you, but I got you, I’m here for you, I love you, and we’re going to get through this together. Oops. I don’t need a tutorial in the sodium-potassium pump in the propagation of action potentials along the axons of neurological cells. Been there, done that. But I’d love to read your work. And since my employer subscribes to all the databases, don’t worry about my access. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1085 "2013-07-06T17:21:58Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I knew that, of course: I’m puzzled as to why you think otherwise. “Isn’t it also curious that not one clown here has made a comment about the defenses witnesses? Isn’t it curious how the clowns here hated on DeeDee’s “incomprehensible” testimony but said nothing of Dr. Boa’s muttering and meandering on the stand?” It’s pretty clear that you thought Boa was a defense witness and that is why people “said nothing” of his mutterings and meandering. Of course, when your cluelessness was pointed out now you are trying to pretend that you knew that all along. That’s apart from the fact that there were plenty of comments on the complete trainwreck of Boa’s testimony on this board that you apparently missed because of your asinine partisan blinders. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1086 "2013-07-06T17:24:19Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > It’s a reference back to the previous discussion about TM being a “child,” “minor,” “high school kid.” > . . . > I simply can’t subscribe to the Trayvon Martin = “child” opinion. At 17, I would, just as I would Harris & Klebold, consider him to be an adult. He’s adult enough for society to allow him to operate a motor vehicle, adult enough to consent to sexual relations, adult enough to early-enlist in the military, adult enough to drop out of school without his parents’ consent…etc. > . . . I had some thoughts about that, also. I think it was when the two sets of Martin’s parents were being deposed the question came up of how he had gotten to Sanford and were told that one parent drove him halfway and was met by the other parent to continue on to Sanford. But it turns out that he had ridden a bus alone to Sanford. Wasn’t he also staying for a while in a motel instead of his mother’s house? So he wasn’t receiving much supervision if they were trying to straighten him out. I wondered why they hadn’t told the truth about that. Certainly he was old enough at seventeen to take that short bus trip. And I thought perhaps they may have felt like since he was getting into trouble they should have been paying closer attention to him and wanted to present it that way. I know that’s the way I’d feel. And if that were me and I had agreed to get that kid on track he wouldn’t have gone anywhere alone for months until he could prove to me he had turned over a new leaf. But that’s just me, a mean mom I was.😃 ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1087 "2013-07-06T17:33:38Z")
Let’s just put it this way: **Honesty,** instead of holding my hand and walking me back through BIOL1401, here’s a what I’m interested in knowing: In your opinion, were high school seniors Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the Columbine Shooters, adults or children? Had they lived to see prosecution, would you have wanted them charged as children or adults? Were they, or their parents, responsible for the Columbine Massacre? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1088 "2013-07-06T17:33:57Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Again, biologically, the area that governs “right and wrong” and “good from bad” matures at age 25. Which would be relevant if we were asking him to decide what is right or wrong. We’re not, we’re saying he was able to know what he had been told was right or wrong, legal or illegal, and choose to act on it. Also, as I hope you’re aware, there is not suddenly a switch thrown in the brain at 25, where the person suddenly and completely becomes mature, but that it’s a process, which is why the law recognises different levels of maturity at different ages. > [@Honesty](#): > > As for the law, the law believes that having \< 10 ng/mL of THC is driving while intoxicated, so far as I’m concerned, the law is light years behind science (as usual). Defending driving whilst on drugs is not going to support your stance as a voice of reason. I’m all for cannabis being legalised, but it’s idiotic to suggest it doesn’t slow your reactions and impair your judgement, even in small doses. Same as alcohol, really, but with far less long term negative effects. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1089 "2013-07-06T17:38:20Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Also, as I hope you’re aware, there is not suddenly a switch thrown in the brain at 25, where the person suddenly and completely becomes mature, but that it’s a process, which is why the law recognises different levels of maturity at different ages. And, as I’m sure the PubMed-published **Honesty** simply forgot to add, the “25” figure would be middle-of-the-road anyway, since the prefrontal cortex matures earlier in females and later in males. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1090 "2013-07-06T17:39:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Isn’t it also curious that not one clown here has made a comment about the defenses witnesses? Isn’t it curious how the clowns here hated on DeeDee’s “incomprehensible” testimony but said nothing of Dr. Boa’s muttering and meandering on the stand?” > > **It’s pretty clear that you thought Boa was a defense witness and** that is why people “said nothing” of his mutterings and meandering. Of course, when your cluelessness was pointed out now you are trying to pretend that you knew that all along. \ That’s how you’re reading it. Think what you want to ;). [QUOTE=BlakeTyner] But I’d love to read your work. And since my employer subscribes to all the databases, don’t worry about my access. [/QUOTE] Soo tempting… - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1091 "2013-07-06T17:48:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Which would be relevant if we were asking him to decide what is right or wrong. We’re not, we’re saying he was able to know what he had been told was right or wrong, legal or illegal, and choose to act on it. > > Also, as I hope you’re aware, there is not suddenly a switch thrown in the brain at 25, where the person suddenly and completely becomes mature, but that it’s a process, which is why the law recognises different levels of maturity at different ages. > > Defending driving whilst on drugs is not going to support your stance as a voice of reason. I’m all for cannabis being legalised, but it’s idiotic to suggest it doesn’t slow your reactions and impair your judgement, even in small doses. Same as alcohol, really, but with far less long term negative effects. I oversimplified (“good vs bad”) for our undergraduate friend, we’re talking specifically about [executive function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions). The Wikipedia entry is remarkably accurate and would suggest giving it a read, though if this does not work, we can start slogging through papers but this is a very simple concept: > [@](#): > > **Adolescence** > Many executive functions may begin in childhood and preadolescence, such as inhibitory control. Yet, it is during adolescence when the different brain systems become better integrated. At this time, youth implement executive functions, such as inhibitory control, more efficiently and effectively and improve throughout this time period.[27][28] Just as inhibitory control emerges in childhood and improves over time, planning and goal-directed behavior also demonstrate an extended time course with ongoing growth over adolescence.[20][23] Likewise, functions such as attentional control, with a potential spurt at age 15,[23] along with working memory,[27] continue developing at this stage. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1092 "2013-07-06T17:53:58Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I oversimplified (“good vs bad”) for our undergraduate friend, we’re talking specifically about [executive function](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_functions). Oops. I didn’t stop after undergrad. Still waiting to read _your_ work rather than the kind folks at Wikipedia. (I’ll at least back up the claim I made: [My membership card](http://postimg.org/image/8pp59c1v5/)) ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1093 "2013-07-06T18:01:20Z")
Hell, you can PM me the title(s) of your work. Scout’s honor, I won’t tell anyone here your name. At this point, I’m legitimately interested in reading it. Give me _some_ credit here–I teach the English language at the post-secondary level; I think I can parse the jargon. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1094 "2013-07-06T18:18:33Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Oops. I don’t need a tutorial in the sodium-potassium pump in the propagation of action potentials along the axons of neurological cells. Been there, done that. > > But I’d love to read your work. And since my employer subscribes to all the databases, don’t worry about my access. Nerd fight!! ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1095 "2013-07-06T18:22:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Nerd fight!! LOL! I’m not published in the field of psychology, but you could call neurological psychology a hobby of mine, and I do have a formal background in it (classroom and lab) at both the undergrad and graduate level. At least enough to have made the honor society, anyway. And, as I attested earlier in the discussion, I’ve also lived a life outside the classroom. 'course, all I get from **Honesty** is :rolleyes: To paraphrase Rodney King: Can’t we all just get along!? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1096 "2013-07-06T18:25:57Z")
**Honesty** - it is not in doubt that 17 year olds know not to punch people in the face except in self defence, and know there may well be consequences for doing so. That they do so anyway is why we require laws and punishments, and don’t rely on immature brains to make the right decisions. I have no desire to slog through a load of reading that simply says that teenagers are more impulsive than adults in general, because that also is not in doubt, and is not relevant to this case. ---
**Author:** ![Passengernumber4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Passengernumber4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Passengernumber4)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1097 "2013-07-06T18:50:51Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Isn’t it a curious that after nearly every witness there was some post there were comments about it? Isn’t it also curious that not one clown here has made a comment about the defenses witnesses? Isn’t it curious how the clowns here hated on DeeDee’s “incomprehensible” testimony but said nothing of Dr. Boa’s muttering and meandering on the stand? Curious, indeed. I’m merely bringing the defenses witnesses to the foreground. If that means I’m wearing a grey hoodie to designate me as “Team Trayvon” because of that, then so be it. > > - Honesty Dr. Boa was a prosecution witness… No matter how much it might have seemed like he was a defense witness. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1098 "2013-07-06T18:53:46Z")
> [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > I think it was when the two sets of Martin’s parents were being deposed the question came up of how he had gotten to Sanford and were told that one parent drove him halfway and was met by the other parent to continue on to Sanford. > > But it turns out that he had ridden a bus alone to Sanford. \ > > I wondered why they hadn’t told the truth about that. Isn’t it obvious? If they’ve said anything remotely considered false…they MURDERED someone! What else are they hiding, the bloodthirsty poltroons? Somebody needs to get to the bottom of this. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1099 "2013-07-06T18:56:53Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Isn’t it obvious? If they’ve said anything remotely considered false…they MURDERED someone! What else are they hiding, the bloodthirsty poltroons? Somebody needs to get to the bottom of this. Those pesky prosecution witnesses and their propensity for lying under oath! But if we scream ZIMMERMAN’S A LYING LIAR! loud enough… ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1100 "2013-07-06T19:01:49Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Ms. Zimmerman: Wasn’t she a fabulous witness? She was already saying “That’s my son” before the lawyer opened his mouth. Good grief woman, hush your mouth and allow the guy to ask you the question first. > > The Uncle: Wasn’t he a fabulous witness? While I could not help but feel a certain amount of admiration for him, it was clear he’s lying right through his teeth. The defense did a great job by inadvertently highlighting that George’s Uncle is a police captain, as it adds strength to the hypothesis Zimmerman was versed in the law before he donned his Inspector Gadget uniform. The Uncle is there as moral support for his sister, nothing more, nothing less. > > When will we see Zimmerman’s white side of the family or is it that only his Hispanic side is willing to go to bat for him? > > - Honesty I agree with you about the mom. Generally, mothers will say anything for their sons. I would discount anything said by Martin’s mom or Z’s mom if I were a juror. I know what you mean. The attorney asked something to the effect of “Did you determine who’s voice was yelling ‘Help me’”? She answers “Because he is my son.” Whoops..hold on there. A little over-prepared so she skipped a question. 🙂 But, as for the uncle? Wow, you and I must have watched different testimony. I thought he was a great witness. His testimony was: I am a deputy sheriff. I take my oath seriously and would never violate it for anyone, even my own son, but I sit here and say to you that it was George on the tape. He looked the jury straight in the eye and was firm and unshaken. He may very well be lying through his teeth, but I thought he was awesome and very believable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=56)