# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1101 "2013-07-06T19:04:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > He looked the jury straight in the eye and was firm and unshaken. He may very well be lying through his teeth, but I thought he was awesome and very believable. He was great. Another benefit, of course, is that if any of the jurors were under the impression that Zimmerman was “white”, seeing both the mother and the uncle has I am sure disabused them of that notion. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1102 "2013-07-06T19:52:04Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Again, biologically, the area that governs “right and wrong” and “good from bad” matures at age 25. Not how much clearer I can make it. I can’t tell - you do recognize, don’t you, that if you argue solely on brain anatomy and development, it is more likely that Martin attacked Zimmerman rather than vice versa. Do you see why this is so? You sound a lot like most or all of the prosecution witnesses - the more you talk, the better the defense case becomes. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1103 "2013-07-06T20:30:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I think the prosecutor bypassed the grand jury on this case - does that affect anything? It means her move to Charge was politically motivated. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1104 "2013-07-06T20:56:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It means her move to Charge was politically motivated. Probably so, but I meant did it have any effect on how easy or otherwise it was to get Zimmerman charged. FWIW, I would think the prosecutor wanted this to be resolved with a plea bargain of manslaughter or reckless homicide or something, and the second-degree charge was to push Zimmerman into pleading out. Then when he refused, they were hoping something big would surface that they could use to convict him, or, more likely, push him into a plea. But no matter how hard they dug, nothing came up. I also suspect the reason the prosecution was so dilatory in turning over evidence to the defense was to keep the pressure up as much as possible. Because the anti-climax/train wreck that has been the prosecution’s case is all they have, and all they ever had. Zimmerman refused to plead to anything even on the eve of the trial, and the prosecution had no choice but to go ahead and hope for a miracle. They seem to have been disappointed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1105 "2013-07-06T21:31:43Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > But, as for the uncle? Wow, you and I must have watched different testimony. I thought he was a great witness. His testimony was: I am a deputy sheriff. I take my oath seriously and would never violate it for anyone, even my own son, but I sit here and say to you that it was George on the tape. > > He looked the jury straight in the eye and was firm and unshaken. He may very well be lying through his teeth, but I thought he was awesome and very believable. I thought he was an outstanding liar. I could go into all the reasons that his lying was clearly lying, but there’s only one that counts: The lie itself. The story he told was perfectly crafted for the purpose of sounding like the most believable voice recognition: “gee, he wasn’t biased to believe it was George because he didn’t even know what he was listening to!” And I might have had a moments hesitation in arriving at the idea that he was lying, except for the fact That we were told in advance with this man’s experience wise, which included spending hours and hours day after day in court rooms listening to people testify. He knows what makes a good lie and what doesn’t. And I give him credit for coming up with a great story to make him seem like his recognition of his nephew’s voice is valid. But aside from the too perfect nature of the story, the too perfect presentation of the man himself, and his life experience, It has to be a lie because it is _inherently_ unbelievable. First, because the screaming voice is very hard to hear to begin with, Secondly to believe that George’s uncle has such a finely tuned here that he can instantly recognize the sound of his nephew screaming for his life is just a huge steaming pile of crap. Even the parents of both Zimmerman and Martin have struggled to honestly say that they recognize either man as being the screamer, which makes sense: the screams are inhuman in their intensity, sounds way outside the norm for anybody. Unless the uncle has some sort of established super ability to discern sounds of various kinds, there’s no reason in the world to believe his story. It’s garbage. ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1106 "2013-07-06T21:36:07Z")
[http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-released-7-12-2012/dsc0068.jpg](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-released-7-12-2012/dsc0068.jpg) This the photo that Omara put into evidence. It’s Palm Place in Sanford, about 7 miles from where Trayvon was staying. Apparently the significance of this is that Trayvon’s ping logs show him about 7 miles away, which would indicate he was traveling in a motor vehicle, and not on foot. (Omara stated earlier that Trayvon was out of cell tower range)Next week should be interesting, if this is accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1107 "2013-07-06T22:24:28Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I thought he was an outstanding liar. I could go into all the reasons that his lying was clearly lying, but there’s only one that counts: The lie itself. The story he told was perfectly crafted for the purpose of sounding like the most believable voice recognition: “gee, he wasn’t biased to believe it was George because he didn’t even know what he was listening to!” And I might have had a moments hesitation in arriving at the idea that he was lying, except for the fact That we were told in advance with this man’s experience wise, which included spending hours and hours day after day in court rooms listening to people testify. He knows what makes a good lie and what doesn’t. And I give him credit for coming up with a great story to make him seem like his recognition of his nephew’s voice is valid. > > But aside from the too perfect nature of the story, the too perfect presentation of the man himself, and his life experience, It has to be a lie because it is _inherently_ unbelievable. First, because the screaming voice is very hard to hear to begin with, Secondly to believe that George’s uncle has such a finely tuned here that he can instantly recognize the sound of his nephew screaming for his life is just a huge steaming pile of crap. Even the parents of both Zimmerman and Martin have struggled to honestly say that they recognize either man as being the screamer, which makes sense: the screams are inhuman in their intensity, sounds way outside the norm for anybody. Unless the uncle has some sort of established super ability to discern sounds of various kinds, there’s no reason in the world to believe his story. It’s garbage. Your argument is that it’s a lie because it’s too convincing? :smack: :smack::smack: :smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack::smack: You think it’s a lie because you want it to be a lie, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1108 "2013-07-06T23:16:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Your argument is that it’s a lie because it’s too convincing? How do you arrive at “too convincing” from “inherently unbelievable”? It was designed to be convincing and it was told in a convincing manner. But it is fundamentally ludicrous. Kinda like if he got on the stand and told a beautifully rendered story about meeting a leprechaun with a pot of gold. Great story, well told, but fundamentally unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1109 "2013-07-06T23:21:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He was great. Another benefit, of course, is that if any of the jurors were under the impression that Zimmerman was “white”, seeing both the mother and the uncle has I am sure disabused them of that notion. Why does that matter? Are we supposed to think that persons of color don’t do any racial profiling? (For the record, I don’t really have that much of an issue with race being factored in to some degree, so we dont’ need to have THAT discussion) Or that hispanics and blacks don’t have any racism between themselves? If Zimmerman was himself black, that might mean something in terms of brushing off ideas about profiling. (except that blacks profile blacks too, so there’s that…it’s a bitch being human.) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1110 "2013-07-07T00:17:30Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > How do you arrive at “too convincing” from “inherently unbelievable”? > > It was designed to be convincing and it was told in a convincing manner. But it is fundamentally ludicrous. Kinda like if he got on the stand and told a beautifully rendered story about meeting a leprechaun with a pot of gold. Great story, well told, but fundamentally unbelievable. I got it from “too perfect”. There’s nothing fundamentally impossible about someone who’s job involves dealing with investigating details of people in unusual, stressful situations being more likely to recognise a particular detail in an unusual, stressful situation. But, maybe he’s wrong, and he didn’t recognise the voice - why do you immediately jump to “liar” rather than “mistaken” or “overconfident in his abilities”? Actually, I know why. It’s because that fits the narrative you’ve constructed, based on your prejudice, that Zimmerman is a liar and a murderer, and anyone who supports him in any way is a liar and wants to see black children killed. Rather than, say, actually caring about the truth, rather than your fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1111 "2013-07-07T00:21:26Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Even the parents of both Zimmerman and Martin have struggled to honestly say that they recognize either man as being the screamer, which makes sense: the screams are inhuman in their intensity, sounds way outside the norm for anybody. Sybrina Fulton never “struggled”, at least according to her testimony. Does that mean she lied? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1112 "2013-07-07T00:38:04Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sybrina Fulton never “struggled”, at least according to her testimony. Does that mean she lied? No, no, she agrees with **Stoid** , and so is a shining beacon of truthiness. That is the standard, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1113 "2013-07-07T01:13:29Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Why does that matter? Are we supposed to think that persons of color don’t do any racial profiling? I thought we’d already discussed Trayvon Martin’s propensity for jumping to conclusions about a _“creepy-ass cracker”_. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1114 "2013-07-07T02:16:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sybrina Fulton never “struggled”, at least according to her testimony. Does that mean she lied? I haven’t watched anything but the things I’ve commented about, so I don’t know who Sybrina Fulton is and I can’t comment on her testimony that I haven’t seen. > [@Steophan](#): > > No, no, she agrees with **Stoid** , and so is a shining beacon of truthiness. That is the standard, isn’t it? Projecting again I see. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I thought we’d already discussed Trayvon Martin’s propensity for jumping to conclusions about a _“creepy-ass cracker”_. Exactly. Although I don’t think that’s so much profiling as using an insulting term for a white person while describing his assessment of Zimmerman as creepy personally. But either way \. Like I said, I’m not that het up about any racial angle, I don’t think Zimmerman is some racist asshole, at least no more so than the vast majority of Americans. I think he’s just an asshole, subtype pathetic. > [@Steophan](#): > > I got it from “too perfect”. Do you think it’s really cricket to isolate sentences to respond to that clearly have a meaning other than the meaning I’ve stated for the whole? tsk. > [@](#): > > There’s nothing fundamentally impossible about someone who’s job involves dealing with investigating details of people in unusual, stressful situations being more likely to recognise a particular detail in an unusual, stressful situation. Okay. But picking out of that recording in the background while he’s doing something else and has no idea what he’s listening to. Bullshit. Massive, steaming bullshit. > [@](#): > > But, maybe he’s wrong, and he didn’t recognise the voice - why do you immediately jump to “liar” rather than “mistaken” or “overconfident in his abilities”? I don’t see how mistaken would be possible within the context of the story. In order for him to be “mistaken” vs. deliberately lying, he would have had to have heard someone else on some other audio in the background and identified it as his nephew. But his story was that he was otherwise occupied, wasn’t watching, had no idea what was on TV and George’s screams, so powerfully and instantly identifiable as his nephew, penetrated his consciousness to draw him to the TV to ask his wife what she was watching. Where is “mistake” possible in that fantastical tale? Lying. To help save his sister’s son. Which in its own way is a nice thing. But still lying. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1115 "2013-07-07T02:19:28Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > [http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-released-7-12-2012/dsc0068.jpg](http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/wp-content/gallery/aerial-photos-released-7-12-2012/dsc0068.jpg) > > This the photo that Omara put into evidence. It’s Palm Place in Sanford, about 7 miles from where Trayvon was staying. Apparently the significance of this is that Trayvon’s ping logs show him about 7 miles away, which would indicate he was traveling in a motor vehicle, and not on foot. (Omara stated earlier that Trayvon was out of cell tower range)Next week should be interesting, if this is accurate. I don’t get it. Can you explain with more detail? ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1116 "2013-07-07T02:29:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t get it. Can you explain with more detail? I’m with you on this one, **Stoid**. I found that the photo is, in fact, part of what was released to the media by the defense a year ago, but this is the first I’ve heard about what it pertains to, or TM’s cell log pings (though the data was given to the defense in discovery–unreadable, at first.) Vis-a-vis the families on the screaming voice, can we just call it a draw? Both sets of witnesses have a vested interest in the screamer being their relative, so to me all of their testimony is a wash. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1117 "2013-07-07T02:41:50Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I find it hard to understand why anyone would be gloating over any aspect of the case. I guess it’s the Team ### concept that I find so foreign. This. I could care less if a video shows up convicting Zimmerman of trying to pistol whip Martin while calling him everything in the book. The same thing for Martin. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1118 "2013-07-07T03:41:43Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > I haven’t watched anything but the things I’ve commented about, so I don’t know who Sybrina Fulton is and I can’t comment on her testimony that I haven’t seen. > > Projecting again I see. > > Exactly. Although I don’t think that’s so much profiling as using an insulting term for a white person while describing his assessment of Zimmerman as creepy personally. But either way \. Like I said, I’m not that het up about any racial angle, I don’t think Zimmerman is some racist asshole, at least no more so than the vast majority of Americans. I think he’s just an asshole, subtype pathetic. > > Do you think it’s really cricket to isolate sentences to respond to that clearly have a meaning other than the meaning I’ve stated for the whole? tsk. > > Okay. But picking out of that recording in the background while he’s doing something else and has no idea what he’s listening to. Bullshit. Massive, steaming bullshit. > > I don’t see how mistaken would be possible within the context of the story. In order for him to be “mistaken” vs. deliberately lying, he would have had to have heard someone else on some other audio in the background and identified it as his nephew. But his story was that he was otherwise occupied, wasn’t watching, had no idea what was on TV and George’s screams, so powerfully and instantly identifiable as his nephew, penetrated his consciousness to draw him to the TV to ask his wife what she was watching. Where is “mistake” possible in that fantastical tale? > > Lying. To help save his sister’s son. Which in its own way is a nice thing. But still lying. Sybrina Fulton is Trayon Martin’s mother. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1119 "2013-07-07T03:55:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Sybrina Fulton is Trayon Martin’s mother. Ah. As i said, i didn’t see her testimony so I can’t comment about it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1120 "2013-07-07T03:55:09Z")
I’m very disappointed with CNN. The bias against Zimmerman is obvious even after hearing the prosecution’s case. How can Zimmerman ever return to a private life with the National news fanning the flames against him? > **[In Zimmerman trial, it’s a jury of millions | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2013/07/05/justice/zimmerman-jury-millions/index.html?hpt=hp_t3)** > > How people react to the Zimmerman trial verdict when it finally comes may tell us more about our expectations than the evidence. This is just one quote. The entire article is like this. Even after seeing how weak the prosecutor’s case. It’s like the trial doesn’t matter. CNN has already convicted him. > [@](#): > > On a People magazine cover, an image of Martin looking like a seventh- or eighth-grader, incapable of any menace, appeared next to the words “An American Tragedy.” And the die was cast: The killing evolved into an unstoppable narrative that spurred a national outcry for justice, and 45 days after the deadly encounter, Zimmerman was charged with murder. > > That is as it should be, says George Ciccariello-Maher, a researcher at Drexel University in Philadelphia, who has written extensively about race. > > He defends Martin’s reaction to Zimmerman with a simple precept: The teenager intuitively knew he was being hunted because black citizens have suffered injustice time and again at the hands of police, security guards and neighborhood watches. Really? They dare compare a self defense shooting to a cold blooded murder? The Emmett Till case is notorious for its injustice. > [@](#): > > “Travyon Martin is a reminder of Emmett Till and the possibility that a black teenager isn’t safe just doing ordinary teenager things.” Till, a 14-year-old black youth, was killed in Mississippi in 1955 for allegedly whistling at a white woman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=57)