# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 63
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1241 "2013-07-08T15:29:29Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > The prosecution did have the testimony of Rachel Jeantel and Trayvon Martin’s family members saying the screams were Martin’s but the state did not call others who claimed prior familiarity with Martin’s voice to make the same claim. Perhaps another missed opportunity by the prosecution side. Of course theres also the issue of methinks thou doth protest… That shriek is so completely outside normal human communication that the more people who say oh yeah, im sure thats george, the less credible it becomes. The hard sell can send the buyer out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1242 "2013-07-08T15:33:27Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Moving on to today’s testimony… > > The defense has called a series of witnesses today largely to testify that they believe the screams on the 9-1-1 call were from George Zimmerman. Friends and coworkers of Zimmerman have been called who claim to be familiar with his voice previously. > > We heard testimony from prosecution witnesses earlier but some of them (\*e.g.\*the neighbors) did not claim much familiarity with Zimmerman’s voice prior to the incident. > > The defense made the point, courtesy of the prosecution’s witness, that persons already familiar with a voice are better capable of identifying that voice. > > The prosecution did have the testimony of Rachel Jeantel and Trayvon Martin’s family members saying the screams were Martin’s but the state did not call others who claimed prior familiarity with Martin’s voice to make the same claim. Perhaps another missed opportunity by the prosecution side. The prosecution witness also testified that any voice recognition done in a non-controlled environment with the witnesses listening for the first time as a group could be tainted. Which is police 101. All witnesses must be interviewed separately. Any identification, visual or audible, must be done separately. I have no doubt that no one thought about future testimony when they played the tape in the mayor’s office for the family but that has tainted any identification by the family. And the expert witness could not identify the voice. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1243 "2013-07-08T15:35:59Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I’m not sure I’m following this. I just listened to Magiver’s link, and maybe that’s somehow out of context, but there’s the horrible, shrieking “help” shouts that each family is claiming as their own, immediately followed by the gunshot. What’s the speculation from the Martin camp? He was beating the shit out of Zimmerman, simultaneously shouting for help in terror, and Zimmerman put a stop to it by shooting him? > > I don’t get what plausible story is there, I must be missing how this isn’t very, very strongly supportive of Zimmerman’s story. Any Trayvon guys care to offer some counter-story consistent with that tape (or maybe someone can explain how I’m misunderstanding, which is entirely possible)? This is similar to a question I asked a few posts back. I wanted to know exactly what the prosecution’s theory of the case was on this point. According to the state, what exactly was happening and how were Zimmerman and Martin’s bodies positioned such that it resulted in Martin screaming for help but not Zimmerman screaming for help? Of course the obvious answer is that Zimmerman was on top of Martin beating up on him. But nobody has suggested such an answer, presumably because then they would have to explain why Zimmerman had injuries on the front and back of his head but Martin didn’t. So what we are left with is that, as far as I can tell, the state (and “Team Trayvon”) have no coherent theory of the case. They do not have a detailed story which is consistent with the evidence and consistent with Zimmerman being guilty. This is an inversion of the usual situation where the prosecution has a coherent theory of the case and the defense attorneys try to poke holes in it. Here it’s the prosecution which is just throwing all kinds of evidence against the wall to see what sticks. > [@](#): > > Worded differently, why isn’t the likeliest owner of the shrieks the guy who got his ass kicked, given how closely the gunshot follows the cries for help? Yes of course. It seems pretty clear from the testimony that shortly before the gun shot, one of the two was on top of the other, beating on him. Common sense says that in all probability, the one with injuries on the front and back of his head was the one getting beaten on and the one without injuries on the front and back of his head was the one doing the beating. In other word’s Zimmerman’s story makes sense. The prosecution’s story, if it had one, would not make sense. Which is why people on Team Trayvon need to gloss over this issue by vaguely talking about a “struggle.” Or by changing the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1244 "2013-07-08T15:36:36Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Of course theres also the issue of methinks thou doth protest… That shriek is so completely outside normal human communication that the more people who say oh yeah, im sure thats george, the less credible it becomes. The hard sell can send the buyer out the door. If all it does is nullify the testimony of Martin’s mother and uncle (which you said you didn’t see and can’t comment on) that’s enough. The defense is not looking for proof, they are looking for reasonable doubt. Its up to the prosecutor to prove anything. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1245 "2013-07-08T15:44:09Z")
actually I thought Leeann Benjamin’s testimony was pretty poor for the defense. She only heard ths call twice, both times from the TV, while doing other things (‘cooking’), yet was convinced it was George because it sounded like what he sounded like at a local political rally for dog catcher or something? Really? More importantly - and I’m not sure why the State didn’t push this more - there had been a period of some years up until the shooting when she said George and her didn’t meet in person - so she remembers what George’s voice sounds like at a political rally from some years prior after hearing a news story on the TV while cooking? And she says she purposely stopped listening to the news of the shooting right after it happened because ‘she was familiar with jury dury’. Riiiighhht… ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1246 "2013-07-08T15:56:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Leeann Benjamin testimony has been really good for George. She let the jury know he’s worked on a political campaign and mentored teen kids. She also identified his voice on the 911 call. > > She also mentioned the delayed arrest by the special prosecutor. I disagree, her husband is testifying right now, and he’s admitted that his family has supported Zimmerman by purchasing his clothes (\>$1500) for the trial as well as contributing his own money to his Defense Fund (\>$3000). I hope it’s something that the prosecution highlights for the jury in case they didn’t catch the slip-up the first time. He’s has indirectly and directly monetarily invested himself (and, by extension, his family) in this case and has every incentive to ensure that this investment doesn’t sour. What the defense is doing is essentially going for “quantity over quality” by having every witness say that it was George. [QUOTE=DragonAsh] And she says she purposely stopped listening to the news of the shooting right after it happened because ‘she was familiar with jury dury’. Riiiighhht… [/Quote] Interestingly, if memory serves, Zimmerman’s uncle said something similar how he didn’t read any newspapers or watch any videos. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1247 "2013-07-08T16:04:55Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Interestingly, if memory serves, Zimmerman’s uncle said something similar how he didn’t read any newspapers or watch any videos. Not sure I believe that either…but I guess I could believe it more coming from a family member vs someone that hadn’t met with George in several years. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1248 "2013-07-08T16:11:03Z")
The husband’s memories of combat as a Medic in Viet Nam tore me up. My dad was there at a similar time. Later the witness described the chaotic battlefield with bullets, mortars, commands yelled, and the injured’s screams. He knew the screams were his friends. ☹ > [@](#): > > @KBelichWFTV > > Looks like the state lost. The witness is continuing to talk about soldiers screaming for help. > @KBelichWFTV > > He says you develop an ability to tell which screams are for help and when you know someone well you recognize the voice. > @KBelichWFTV > > His voice cracked as he said he’s avoided listening to the 911 screams because it’s distressing. > > @KBelichWFTV > > He says there’s no doubt in his mind that it’s #Zimmermanon9 screaming for help. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1249 "2013-07-08T16:35:51Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > So what we are left with is that, as far as I can tell, the state (and “Team Trayvon”) have no coherent theory of the case. They do not have a detailed story which is consistent with the evidence and consistent with Zimmerman being guilty. So far, everything is perfectly consistent with the theory that Zimmerman is being tried because it’s politically expedient to do so, or so the DA thinks. I’m betting the DA & Assistant DA end up before a disciplinary hearing of the Florida state Bar Association before all is done. It really is that egregious. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1250 "2013-07-08T16:36:53Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > In other word’s Zimmerman’s story makes sense. The prosecution’s story, if it had one, would not make sense. Which is why people on Team Trayvon need to gloss over this issue by vaguely talking about a “struggle.” Or by changing the subject. :rolleyes:Would you preferred that people make up a detailed scenario that maps every passing second of activity? The fact that there is not such a detailed scenario does not mean that Zimmerman is telling the truth or that his story makes sense. The issue is not Zimmerman story makes sense in the prosecutions does not, the problem is the lack of specific evidence that can only point to one answer. That is a very much a problem. It doesn’t make Zimmermans story the truth, nor does it mean Zimmerman’s story makes sense… (Starting with the fact that Zimmerman does not have only one story.) Means this is a tough case to prove. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1251 "2013-07-08T16:37:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The husband’s memories of combat as a Medic in Viet Nam tore me up. My dad was there at a similar time. Later the witness described the chaotic battlefield with bullets, mortars, commands yelled, and the injured’s screams. He knew the screams were his friends. ☹ Really? _This_ is the part of the trial where you get emotional? This? And, on of top that, you didn’t even serve in Vietnam? You poor thing. I promise you that we’re going to get through this month’s screening of _Full Metal Jacket_ together, **aceplace57** , because wherever you stand, I am there beside you, waving my star-spangled flag in solidarity. Love, Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1252 "2013-07-08T16:39:18Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If all it does is nullify the testimony of Martin’s mother and uncle (which you said you didn’t see and can’t comment on) that’s enough. The defense is not looking for proof, they are looking for reasonable doubt. Its up to the prosecutor to prove anything. It only nullifies it if the jury believes it. It’s not a matter of quantity outweighing quality. As I’ve said many times if I were a juror I would be voting to convict. You can parade all the liars you want to in front of me, it doesn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1253 "2013-07-08T16:46:16Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Of course theres also the issue of methinks thou doth protest… That shriek is so completely outside normal human communication that the more people who say oh yeah, im sure thats george, the less credible it becomes. The hard sell can send the buyer out the door. A medic with combat experience would be well aware of how the human voice changes under extremely stressfull conditions. Hearing someone yelling and screaming at a political rally might be close. It’s reasonable to believe that the human voice would noticably change during excited cheering. It’s clear that the “technical experts” can not confirm, especially beyond a reasonable doubt, who was crying out for help. The prosecution asked 3 witnesses (DD, mom, step-brother (did I miss any?)) who they thought the voice belonged to. Even though he wasn’t called to testify, the jury may still wonder why TM’s father wasn’t called (or maybe they’ve already heard his “no, it isn’t/yes it is” theory?) to testify about who was crying out. How many more than 3 witnesses do you believe would reach your “methinks thou doth protest…” limit? 4? 5? 6? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1254 "2013-07-08T16:48:01Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > The issue is not Zimmerman story makes sense in the prosecutions does not, the problem is the lack of specific evidence that can only point to one answer. That is a very much a problem. It doesn’t make Zimmermans story the truth, nor does it mean Zimmerman’s story makes sense… (Starting with the fact that Zimmerman does not have only one story.) Means this is a tough case to prove. That’s all. > [@Stoid](#): > > As I’ve said many times if I were a juror I would be voting to convict. You admit that there’s no evidence that proves Zimmerman’s guilt and excludes other scenarios in which he’s innocent, but you’d convict him anyway. Some seeker of truth you are. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1255 "2013-07-08T16:49:44Z")
I was five and had my father ripped out of my life for a year. Even at that age I knew how upset and worried my mom was. I don’t watch news stories about combat or the modern realistic war movies. It dredges up too much stuff for me. If people want to call a combat Vet a liar then so be it. I sure as heck wouldn’t. The guy seemed haunted by the memories even 45 years later. > [@Honesty](#): > > Really? _This_ is the part of the trial where you get emotional? This? And, on of top that, you didn’t even serve in Vietnam? You poor thing. I promise you that we’re going to get through this month’s screening of _Full Metal Jacket_ together, **aceplace57** , because wherever you stand, I am there beside you, waving my star-spangled flag in solidarity. > > Love, > > Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1256 "2013-07-08T16:55:37Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > It only nullifies it if the jury believes it. It’s not a matter of quantity outweighing quality. As I’ve said many times if I were a juror I would be voting to convict. You can parade all the liars you want to in front of me, it doesn’t help. Yes we are well aware that your mind was made up before any testimony. Hopefully you will get excluded from any jury you are ever called for. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1257 "2013-07-08T16:56:24Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > … the jury may still wonder why TM’s father wasn’t called (or maybe they’ve already heard his “no, it isn’t/yes it is” theory?) to testify about who was crying out. … Anyone think the defense might call Trayvon Martin’s father as a witness on this point? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1258 "2013-07-08T16:58:34Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I disagree, her husband is testifying right now, and he’s admitted that his family has supported Zimmerman by purchasing his clothes (\>$1500) for the trial as well as contributing his own money to his Defense Fund (\>$3000). I hope it’s something that the prosecution highlights for the jury in case they didn’t catch the slip-up the first time. He’s has indirectly and directly monetarily invested himself (and, by extension, his family) in this case and has every incentive to ensure that this investment doesn’t sour. It isn’t a very good investment - he isn’t going to get his $3K back even if Zimmerman is acquitted, so he doesn’t have much incentive in either case. But if you want to play the game that way, Martin’s parents can’t be believed either - they have an incentive to get Zimmerman convicted, so they can sue. > [@](#): > > What the defense is doing is essentially going for “quantity over quality” by having every witness say that it was George. I am not sure what you are trying to get at here - the defense witnesses are testifying for the defense. And unlike the prosecution witnesses, they appear to be backing up the side that called them. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1259 "2013-07-08T17:06:30Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Really? _This_ is the part of the trial where you get emotional? This? And, on of top that, you didn’t even serve in Vietnam? You poor thing. I promise you that we’re going to get through this month’s screening of _Full Metal Jacket_ together, **aceplace57** , because wherever you stand, I am there beside you, waving my star-spangled flag in solidarity. > > Love, > > Honesty Yes, it was an emotional moment. That doesn’t imply that there weren’t other emotional moments. His experience came during the Tet offensive. It was a bloody and emotional time for soldiers and it was an emotional time for their families, friends, and civilians. Something like that can stick with a person for a very, long, long, time. It’s a personal reaction. Your response appears to be bizarre and condensending. Did you expect the prosecution to “boohoo” a combat medic’s experience in order to bolster your non-case against GZ? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1260 "2013-07-08T17:10:17Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Anyone think the defense might call Trayvon Martin’s father as a witness on this point? I think it’s highly unlikely. TM’s father would have nothing other than that to add to this case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=62) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=64)