# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/121 "2013-06-26T00:50:17Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Dude, you’re so paranoid. I listened to the tapes from the recorded stream which you can listen to[here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMHuEOV6z-o). I never said nor implied that the jury listened to the tapes, was simply expressing excitement that the evidence was presented. Jesus Christ, there’s no man behind the curtain. I would beg that you pay more attention to the message rather than the messenger. Or, if it helps you, use the ignore feature to ignore my posts altogether. > > Thank you. > > - Honesty No, you were wrong that the evidence was presented. The judge has not yet ruled on whether it can be. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/122 "2013-06-26T00:53:39Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Consider the possibility that he turned down “citizen on patrol” because he would have been subjected to a background check. What’s your evidence for that? > [@](#): > > He committed the act of patrolling when followed Martin in his truck and then on foot, so if anything, this testimony damages Zimmerman. No, patrolling is travelling about to see if anything is happening. Zimmerman committed the act of grocery shopping. He was quite specifically not patrolling when he encountered Martin, even though as a neighbourhood watchman he would have been within his rights to patrol. As would any resident of the community, for that matter. Again, if Martin or anyone else felt that Zimmerman’s behaviour was suspicious, they could, and should, have called the police. It looks like no-one did. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/123 "2013-06-26T01:05:07Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What’s your evidence for that? [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321\_1\_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321_1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch) > [@](#): > > Again, if Martin or anyone else felt that Zimmerman’s behaviour was suspicious, they could, and should, have called the police. It looks like no-one did. Lol. Yes, [they did](http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/neighbors-complained-about-george-zimmerman-and-his-aggressive-nature-before-he-killed-trayvon-marti/question-2516947/). ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/124 "2013-06-26T01:18:01Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > [http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321\_1\_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-24/news/os-trayvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-20120321_1_zimmerman-community-ties-neighborhood-watch) What does that have to do with his reasons for turning down the police post? And, more to the point, why would you expect him to follow neighbourhood watch rules when grocery shopping? > [@](#): > > Lol. Yes, [they did](http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/neighbors-complained-about-george-zimmerman-and-his-aggressive-nature-before-he-killed-trayvon-marti/question-2516947/). Lol. That’s not about Zimmerman acting suspiciously whilst “following” Martin, it’s an unsourced claim in a blog that “several” people had complained about him in the past. Once again, though, what do complaints about his actions as a neighbourhood watchman have to do with this case? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/125 "2013-06-26T01:29:31Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > What does that have to do with his reasons for turning down the police post? And, more to the point, why would you expect him to follow neighbourhood watch rules when grocery shopping? Okay dude. Not engaging the crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/126 "2013-06-26T01:31:46Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Okay dude. Not engaging the crazy. Yeah, you provide two irrelevant cites and, when called on it, say _I’m_ crazy. That’s good debating, there… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/127 "2013-06-26T02:45:54Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Lol. Yes, [they did](http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/neighbors-complained-about-george-zimmerman-and-his-aggressive-nature-before-he-killed-trayvon-marti/question-2516947/). I don’t see any cite regarding what was asked for. The claim was made by Martin’s girlfriend that he was frightened. She did not call the police when she thought a fight started. We know why because she told us why. It was just a fight to her. It doesn’t sound like she’s too concerned over it. But still, a guy following someone she cares for and she doesn’t make the call. Why? What would happen if she made the call? If she believed him in danger she would be bringing the police to his rescue. If she thought it was just a fight then she would be bringing the police down on her friend for fighting. If Martin thought Zimmerman was a threat then he had a phone in his hand. He had one at the house he was living at. Not only did he choose NOT to call the police he chose to go back and confront Zimmerman. He then went on to assault him. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/128 "2013-06-26T03:02:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Any detail on what percentage of those people actually were up to no good?.. With no specific knowledge of those reports, I’ll offer a comment about Suspicious Person/Suspicious Activity reports that I field in a 9-1-1 center in a totally different jurisdiction. In my humble experience these sorts of reports lend themselves to four general categories of findings by the responding officer. In order of frequency, from most likely to least likely outcome those would be (including my educated estimate of percentage for each) : [ol] [li]Suspect not located, (75%)[/li][li]Suspect located and has a reasonable and legal rationale for his presence/actions, (15%)[/li][li]Suspect located and does not have a reasonable and/or legal rationale for his presence/actions but is not observed doing anything that warrants arrest (8%) or [/li][li]Suspect located and is observed committing an arrestable offence. (2%)[/ol][/li] Opinions differ on which of these constitute being “up to no good.” Personally I put that at categories 3 & 4. And just because the reported suspicious person was not located does not mean that nothing was amiss. (_e.g_ A responding officer may find a burglarized premise but not locate a suspect.) But that means of the reports where a suspicious person is located, I would estimate about 40% of those are “up to no good” even though only maybe 5% of those can be arrested based upon what the officer observes. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/129 "2013-06-26T03:30:01Z")
Can’t wait for “DeeDee” (Rachel Jeantel) to testify. I just pity the poor stenographers trying to make sense of her. [Her tweets](http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/twitter/rachel-jeantel-758403): When her lies (under oath, no less) were exposed: “Jus got home n hear wat was going and I’m angry” "remember who cause the funeral to happen keep it 100% Mr. ass hoe. damn they p\*ssed me off… and I’m sick too “HELL NAW” some other gems: “they black ass laugh bout last year…they ass goin to hell for laugh bout that shit” "Lol we going to hell for smoke on Sunday I need some more drink” “I hope I dnt hit no one tonight lord plz watch my driving” and of course tweeting the pic of her “court nails” 🙂 I guess she’s ready now. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/130 "2013-06-26T03:36:26Z")
It’s tragic that a situation easily resolved ended in death. Either Zimmerman stayed in the truck or Trayvon simply went home. Either way nothing bad would have happened. Heck, even just telling Z that he was returning to his dad’s townhouse would have resolved the situation. I’m still looking forward to seeing the timeline exhibit. They know to the second when Z’s 411 call ended and they know to the second when the gunshot was heard on the 911 recording. That critical gap is the time that the fight happened. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t more than a minute or two gap. But the exhibit will tell us for sure. I get the impression that Trayvon jumped Z right after he hung up from the 411 call. But if the time gap is longer than we realize then maybe there was time for Z to search out and find Trayvon? There’s still a lot to learn from the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/131 "2013-06-26T04:32:06Z")
I wasn’t watching the court proceedings today, so I looked at stuff people wrote about it. Another gem from state witness today: Ms. Dorival, the police Neighborhood Watch coordinator. Some exchanges with the defense on cross examination: She is asked if the Neighborhood Watch Program (NWP) gave lessons in the law to participants. Ms. Dorival says no, they mostly tell people not to confront anyone or follow anyone. West: “when you say the shouldn’t follow someone, you’re not saying that if you see someone suspicious that you can’t follow at a distance to gather information, are you? You don’t tell people that they can’t follow someone from a distance, do you?” Dorival agrees - she was not saying that, but rather that it was not a good idea to engage someone. … West: Do you talk with them about firearms specifically? Dorival: No, it’s not my place to tell participants not to carry a gun, that’s their right. … West goes into hypothetical situation: would you recommend a NW volunteer to call the police if you see someone walking in the rain with no apparent purpose, looking into buildings, walking outside of normal paths in areas one would not normally expect a person to walk. Dorival answer: Oh, definitely, that’s exactly the kind of behavior we encourage NWP participants to report to the police. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/132 "2013-06-26T04:50:43Z")
The police representative that met with the HOA and helped setup the neighborhood watch really damaged the prosecution’s case. She’s sitting their calmly explaining that she had looked up the crime stats for the housing area. Then she describes a home invasion that involved a terrified woman with a baby that occurred shortly before the neighborhood watch was formed. That’s going to resonate strongly with that female jury. Especially the story of the home invasion. It hits home exactly why Zimmerman made that call about Trayvon. Any suspicious appearing stranger wandering around in the rain at night would be a cause for concern. Doesn’t matter if they are young or old. White, Hispanic, Black any stranger in an odd circumstance would be a cause for concern and a 411 call. It only takes a minute for a cop to talk with someone and determine if they are there for legitimate reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/133 "2013-06-26T05:40:36Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Besides for being in poor taste, it would seem to be at high risk of insulting the jury. The implication is that these people were chosen based solely on the fact that they were the only people ignorant enough for the job. Yeah, that’s my take on it, too. Really poor choice by the defense in my view. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/134 "2013-06-26T05:55:18Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Yeah, that’s my take on it, too. Really poor choice by the defense in my view. It was definitely a dud. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/135 "2013-06-26T08:06:56Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > At the beginning of the altercation, George Zimmerman had hit the pound and star button, and it was recorded on his cellphone. Since he claimed he was reaching for his cellphone before the punch, this is significant. I’d be quite eager to see a cite please, because I agree it would be extremely significant: it would point to another lie by Zimmerman; he was very clear in saying he didn’t touch his phone before getting punched in the nose. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/136 "2013-06-26T13:25:45Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The police representative that met with the HOA and helped setup the neighborhood watch really damaged the prosecution’s case. She’s sitting their calmly explaining that she had looked up the crime stats for the housing area. Then she describes a home invasion that involved a terrified woman with a baby that occurred shortly before the neighborhood watch was formed. > > That’s going to resonate strongly with that female jury. Especially the story of the home invasion. It hits home exactly why Zimmerman made that call about Trayvon. Any suspicious appearing stranger wandering around in the rain at night would be a cause for concern. Doesn’t matter if they are young or old. White, Hispanic, Black any stranger in an odd circumstance would be a cause for concern and a 411 call. It only takes a minute for a cop to talk with someone and determine if they are there for legitimate reasons. Wendy Dorival established there was a documented problem with burgleries at Twin Oaks and that is why the residents created/joined their own neighborhood watch group. The criminals were bold enough to operate during daylight hours and had entered occupied homes. The Retreat at Twin Oaks was a dangerous neighborhood. Dorival also told the jury that she thought GZ was a good candidate for the Sanford PD citizens patrol program. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/137 "2013-06-26T14:30:42Z")
Surdyka is a horrible witness for the prosecution. Is adamant that there were three shots when it is indisputable that there was only one. Is adamant that Martin was face down when he was shot when it is indisputable that he was shot from the front. Is adamant now that the window was open when in the 911 call she says it was closed. etc. etc. On edit: is sure that the first officer she talked to was a woman named Serina. (It was a male officer, last name Serino). ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/138 "2013-06-26T14:33:21Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s tragic that a situation easily resolved ended in death. Either Zimmerman stayed in the truck or Trayvon simply went home. Either way nothing bad would have happened. Heck, even just telling Z that he was returning to his dad’s townhouse would have resolved the situation. > > I’m still looking forward to seeing the timeline exhibit. They know to the second when Z’s 411 call ended and they know to the second when the gunshot was heard on the 911 recording. That critical gap is the time that the fight happened. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t more than a minute or two gap. But the exhibit will tell us for sure. > > I get the impression that Trayvon jumped Z right after he hung up from the 411 call. But if the time gap is longer than we realize then maybe there was time for Z to search out and find Trayvon? There’s still a lot to learn from the trial. The reason the testimony was important yesterday, was that the timelime doesn’t make any sense. In the time allotted, they should have been nowhere near where the body was found. By having George and Trayvon moving back and forth stretch out the amount of time needed. But the witness, with motions, showed someone throwing punches, instead of flailing, and finally admitted that it could have been just one person standing. Despite what some might think, it was a bad day for the prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/139 "2013-06-26T14:50:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Is adamant that there were three shots when it is indisputable that there was only one. No, she said she heard three ‘pops’, not shots. Could easily just be the acoustics of the area (echoes etc). **hmarvin** , you going to post a cite for your ‘Zimmerman hit the pound and star button at the beginning of the altercation’ quote (which, btw, contradicts George’s earlier statements)? ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/140 "2013-06-26T15:50:57Z")
It’s [official](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57591091-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-jury-can-hear-zimmermans-previous-non-emergency-calls-to-dispatchers-judge-rules/): Jury can hear Zimmerman’s previous non-emergency calls to dispatchers. Great boost for the prosecution. \ This is like a football game: Rah! Rah! Go Team! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=8)