# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1461 "2013-07-10T17:42:24Z")
The wftv analyst just explained that the sequestration issue regarding John Donley (Viet Nam vet that testified for the defense) has been cleared up. Sharp eyed viewers had screenshots of him in court a week or so before testifying. wftv reporters did some digging and Donley wasn’t served with his subpoena until afterward. The analyst (Bill Schaeffer) thinks there won’t be a sequestration issue. It seems likely the judge won’t make an issue of it. I’m relieved. It seemed very unlikely O’Mara would screw up something this basic. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1462 "2013-07-10T17:44:42Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > …Really, the damning element for me is the lack of defensive wounds on either participant. It is possible Zimmerman was dazed initially and and his response when clearing his head was to shoot. IDK, I’d just have expected some bruising on both combatants arms in a life or death struggle. :dubious: (shortened for clarity) Two expert witnesses indicated that GZ was not a fighter. GZ’s MMA instructor stated that GZ’s physical condition was a “point 5” on a scale of 1 to 10 and the “use of force” expert indicated that GZ had no fighting skills. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1463 "2013-07-10T17:47:01Z")
I know I’m biased, but Root is absolutely eviscerating what little case the State had. This has become a circus. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1464 "2013-07-10T17:48:08Z")
The prosecution is still suggesting that “something else” could have happened. That’s not the job of the prosecution. They are introducing “reasonable doubt” to the jury. \*We the prosecutors, don’t know what happened and can’t prove what happened but TM could have been trying to get away (from the man he was straddling) (from the man he had been beating) (from the man with the gun). \* It seems that the prosecution has introduced more “reasonable doubt” than the defense team has. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1465 "2013-07-10T17:53:15Z")
The judge just asked GZ if he has decided if he will testify or not, over the repeated objection of his attorney. Is this SOP? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1466 "2013-07-10T17:54:18Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The prosecution is still suggesting that “something else” could have happened. That’s not the job of the prosecution. They are introducing “reasonable doubt” to the jury. > > \*We the prosecutors, don’t know what happened and can’t prove what happened but TM could have been trying to get away (from the man he was straddling) (from the man he had been beating) (from the man with the gun). \* > > It seems that the prosecution has introduced more “reasonable doubt” than the defense team has. Now they’re basically admitting that Trayvon was on top, after earlier trying to refute that. Are they nuts? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1467 "2013-07-10T17:58:39Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Really, the damning element for me is the lack of defensive wounds on either participant. > [@doorhinge](#): > > Two expert witnesses indicated that GZ was not a fighter. GZ’s MMA instructor stated that GZ’s physical condition was a “point 5” on a scale of 1 to 10 and the “use of force” expert indicated that GZ had no fighting skills. How much training is required to raise one’s hands to protect one’s head from blows? Imho, it requires no specialized training whatsoever. I have small children do it. It may be instinctive for all I know. It also seems to me that since GZ was no making an effort to protect his head and face, if someone hit him a dozen or a couple dozen or however many times he would have ended up looking significantly more beat up. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1468 "2013-07-10T18:21:00Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > Now they’re basically admitting that Trayvon was on top, after earlier trying to refute that. Are they nuts? At this point in the trial, there’s convincing testimony that TM was on top. If the prosecution wants to convince the jury that TM was “trying to get away” at the time the shot was fired, the prosecution has go with the “TM was on top and leaning away” scenerio. Or they could just introduce some other scenerio that would produce even more reasonable doubt in the juries minds. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1469 "2013-07-10T18:23:57Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > How much training is required to raise one’s hands to protect one’s head from blows? > > Imho, it requires no specialized training whatsoever. I have small children do it. It may be instinctive for all I know. > > It also seems to me that since GZ was no making an effort to protect his head and face, if someone hit him a dozen or a couple dozen or however many times he would have ended up looking significantly more beat up. The “use of force” expert suggested that GZ would be making an effort to protect himself but that GZ simply wasn’t very good at it. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1470 "2013-07-10T18:44:42Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > The “use of force” expert suggested that GZ would be making an effort to protect himself but that GZ simply wasn’t very good at it. The expert said that GZ tried to raise his hands but wasn’t very good at it? And if GZ wasn’t able to raise his hands very well, it seems he would have been more beat up from the dozen or so blows that he says he suffered. all just imho and ime ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1471 "2013-07-10T18:46:27Z")
The prosecutor is on his back on the ground showing how movement at the wrist could account for the angle of the shot. Certainly sounds like the prosecution has essentially conceded that Zimmerman was on the bottom. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1472 "2013-07-10T19:00:42Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > The expert said that GZ tried to raise his hands but wasn’t very good at it? > > And if GZ wasn’t able to raise his hands very well, it seems he would have been more beat up from the dozen or so blows that he says he suffered. > > all just imho and ime Just to pick a nit - “Trying to raise his hands” vs “attempting to defend himself” imply different actions. I couldn’t raise my hands to defend myself implies that my arms were immobilized (trapped, injured) and my opponent was free to punch me at will. That would result in devistating injuries. Not being able to defend myself implies that no matter what I did (wiggling, twisting, using my arms/hands to block, shrimping(?)), I wasn’t able to stop every strike, most of the strikes, or some of the strikes. That would result in fewer injuries. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1473 "2013-07-10T19:17:07Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Just to pick a nit - “Trying to raise his hands” vs “attempting to defend himself” imply different actions. That was my point. So just because someoone said that GZ couldn’t defend himself well, I don’t think it has any bearing on GZ’s refusal to shield his head with his arms. > [@doorhinge](#): > > I couldn’t raise my hands to defend myself implies that my arms were immobilized (trapped, injured) and my opponent was free to punch me at will. That would result in devistating injuries. Not being able to defend myself implies that no matter what I did (wiggling, twisting, using my arms/hands to block, shrimping(?)), I wasn’t able to stop every strike, most of the strikes, or some of the strikes. That would result in fewer injuries. If you raise your arms to protect your head, how does that work? Where do the blows land instead of your head? Defensive injuries are what result from blocking blows to the head with your arms. GZ lacked defensive injuries. GZ lacked a hamburger face. So, to me, GZ story that he was on the receiving end of a dozen blows doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1474 "2013-07-10T19:18:29Z")
Sounds like the defense will rest soon. Who might the prosecution call for rebuttal? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1475 "2013-07-10T19:19:58Z")
George’s dad seems to be the only witness that was formally asked by the state attorney to listen to the 911 call and id the cries for help. He testified that was the first time he heard it. The Martin family heard it as a group in city hall and with no cops present. Other witnesses heard it on tv for the first time. No cops or state attorney present. > [@](#): > > Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 4m > > Was screaming. That contrasts with how Martin’s family listened to the call. #Zimmermanon9 > Expand > Kathi Belich, WFTV Kathi Belich, WFTV ‏@KBelichWFTV 5m > > #Zimmermanon9 's father was under oath when he listened to the 911 call at the Seminole County State Attorney’s office. He said George 1/2 ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1476 "2013-07-10T19:22:17Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > … > Defensive injuries are what result from blocking blows to the head with your arms. > GZ lacked defensive injuries. … Did anyone examine GZ’s arms to verify if there were or were not any injuries? I am not aware of any such testimony. GZ was wearing a long sleeved jacket. I have no idea how thick it was and if it might have cushioned any blows. My guess is the jacket is not very thick as the weather in Florida wouldn’t demand much protection from the cold, but the jury should have access to the evidence to assess this. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1477 "2013-07-10T19:35:35Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Did anyone examine GZ’s arms to verify if there were or were not any injuries? I am not aware of any such testimony. I have not watched the whole trial nor kept with all of the testimony. There were at least photos taken at the PD which show GZ’s lower arms and hands. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1478 "2013-07-10T19:49:37Z")
George Zimmerman affirmed under oath that he’s decided not to testify. Defense Rests. Rebuttal starting. State has 2 witnesses planed today and possibly 1 tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1479 "2013-07-10T19:52:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > George Zimmerman affirmed under oath that he’s decided not to testify. > > Defense Rests. > > Rebuttal starting. State has 2 witnesses planed today and possibly 1 tomorrow. I would have been totally shocked if he testified. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1480 "2013-07-10T20:00:11Z")
Me too, as I thought that was pretty much the only shot the prosecution had … try to trip up Zimmie on the stand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=75)