# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 92
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1821 "2013-07-12T23:57:15Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The legal age of criminal responsibility in all of the US is, at most, 12 years old. At that age, you are expected to understand what is legal and what is not. > > Martin knew what he did was illegal, or at least should have done. He wasn’t required to judge whether it was right or wrong, the reason we have laws is so we don’t have to trust that strangers are mature, moral people. > > The argument about his maturity might be relevant if we were expecting him to judge whether something was moral. We aren’t. He was expected to obey the law, and instead he attacked Zimmerman. He was expected to know better. > > It’s tragic that he’s dead, but it’s no-one’s responsibility but his own. That is totally disgusting and vile. I’m not sure of your motives…I have my hunches but for the purpose of this discussion, you are full of baloney as my grandma used to say. The only criminal here is gz, …its a fact that as it turned out, tm was just walking home minding his own business when fatty hunted him down. The only mugshots belong to gz, and he is the murder defendant, not anybody else. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1822 "2013-07-13T00:00:50Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > No one disputes that a 17 year old should be able to differentiate right from wrong, it’s the fact the onerous was on Zimmerman was to diffuse the situation; because Zimmerman - not Trayvon - was the one who was both biologically and legally “mature”. Zimmerman’s biggest mistake wasn’t getting out of his car, it was the fact he didn’t even introduce himself to the person he was following. Why wouldn’t you tell the person “Hey, there’s been robberies in the area” and “I’m from the Neighborhood Watch”. That would undoubtedly diffuse most situations that could arise, though it’s possible it may not had made a difference here (but I suspect it would’ve). The _onus_ was on Martin not to return to Zimmerman and punch him in the face, after having gone home. Yes, it was stupid of Zimmerman to get out of his car - he put himself at risk, and one look at the pictures of his face show that. He did nothing that put Martin at risk, Martin did that himself. Why was it Zimmerman’s responsibility to introduce himself to someone he had no intention of encountering, and indeed who went out of his way to approach him? Martin is the one who initiated everything, and (regardless of age) was the one who should have explained himself. > [@](#): > > I also encourage to ask any 27 year old: have you been in a fist-fight with a minor? I imagine there will be \>95-99% negative. As I stated before, I just can’t see adults - real, emotionally mature adults - getting into scuffles with teenagers. Have you? Has anyone else here been in a fight with a minor? Do you have family members that have? This was not a fist fight, this was an unprovoked beating. I never found out the age of the person who randomly attacked me 18 months ago, I suspect he was in his twenties, but if he were 17 that wouldn’t make me any less of a victim. Just as it doesn’t make Zimmerman any less of a victim. Were I attacked by a 17 year old I would be just as likely to defend myself that if attacked by someone of any other age. I can’t imagine who wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1823 "2013-07-13T00:00:57Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Did Zimmerman know that Martin was 17? Yes. > [@](#): > > **Zimmerman:** Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band. > And he’s a black male. > > **NEN dispatcher:** How old would you say he is? > > **Zimmerman:** He’s got something on his shirt. About like _ **his late teens** _. > [@Magiver](#): > > At no point was Zimmerman ever directly chasing Martin. So that whole ‘shit, he’s running’ \*opens car door, gets out, starts running ‘in the same direction’ :rolleyes: as Martin…all of that was 'not chasing after Martin? Ok, got it. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1824 "2013-07-13T00:02:28Z")
**Tollhouse** , you’ve inspired me. I just donated $50 to Zimmerman’s defense fund in your name. Zimmerman was the one bleeding from the face and head. Unless you expect me to believe that he beat himself up, then he was assaulted by Trayvon Martin. If you fuck up and hit someone, and have them on the ground while you use “downward motions” against them, then yes–you have to own the consequences when the person fights back with force or deadly force. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1825 "2013-07-13T00:03:51Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > That is totally disgusting and vile. > I’m not sure of your motives…I have my hunches but for the purpose of this discussion, you are full of baloney as my grandma used to say. The only criminal here is gz, …its a fact that as it turned out, tm was just walking home minding his own business when fatty hunted him down. The only mugshots belong to gz, and he is the murder defendant, not anybody else. Martin was not walking home minding his own business. Martin reached his home, then instead of entering, turned around, walked away from his home to Zimmerman, and attacked him. My sole motive is to make it as clear as possible that it is absolutely fucking wrong to arrest, charge, and try someone for defending themselves against an unprovoked attack. Zimmerman hunted nobody down. The _prosecution_ witnesses made that clear, as if it wasn’t already. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1826 "2013-07-13T00:05:04Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Yes. Except “late teens” is not the same thing as “17.” It could go to “19.” 17, 18, 19, 20 are all old enough to know not to put your hands on someone. Especially if there’s the potential that the someone in question could be legally carrying a handgun for self defense. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1827 "2013-07-13T00:06:00Z")
I’ll repeat, it’s tragic that Martin is dead. It’s also tragic if a 17 year old steals a car, crashes it, and dies. In each case, they are solely responsible for their deaths, and it was their criminal acts that caused them. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1828 "2013-07-13T00:12:13Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Were I attacked by a 17 year old I would be just as likely to defend myself that if attacked by someone of any other age. I can’t imagine who wouldn’t. I don’t mean to cherry pick your post (but a lot of the stuff you posted we’ve re-hashed before) and I’d rather focus on new stuff: Can you imagine a scenario that you were beat up by a non-athletic, untrained 17 year old that was **40 lbs lighter** than you? [QUOTE=BlakeTyner] Was he the 6’3" that the family originally said, or the 5’11" that good old Dr. Bao measured–we’ll not know. [/QUOTE] Obviously, you take the quantitative measurement, so Dr. Boa’s data should be used. It’s likely the family overstated his height which is not unusual. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1829 "2013-07-13T00:17:16Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > Dr. Boa’s data should be used. This is truly not a slight against you, **Honesty**. We’ve had a couple of snide back-and-forths in these threads, I know. But this may just be the funniest line ever written on the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1830 "2013-07-13T00:19:54Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > **Tollhouse** , you’ve inspired me. I just donated $50 to Zimmerman’s defense fund in your name.\ Oh yeah? Well, I just donated _$100_ to Zimmerson’s\* prosecution\* fund in _your_ name! ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1831 "2013-07-13T00:21:02Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I don’t mean to cherry pick your post (but a lot of the stuff you posted we’ve re-hashed before) and I’d rather focus on new stuff: Can you imagine a scenario that you were beat up by a non-athletic, untrained 17 year old that was **40 lbs lighter** than you? Certainly, if that person with one punch broke my nose and knocked me to the ground. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1832 "2013-07-13T00:28:02Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Oh yeah? Well, I just donated _$100_ to Zimmerson’s\* prosecution\* fund in _your_ name! Sadly, George has done that himself, since he’s a taxpayer in the state which is prosecuting him. Still, at last report GZ’s fund had raised $77k (or, I guess now, $77,050). I’m sure it was all the people from that neo-nazi message board, tho! ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1833 "2013-07-13T00:31:42Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’ll repeat, it’s tragic that Martin is dead. > > It’s also tragic if a 17 year old steals a car, crashes it, and dies. > > In each case, they are solely responsible for their deaths, and it was their criminal acts that caused them. Except for those times when a fat man with a gun causes them. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1834 "2013-07-13T00:33:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Martin was not walking home minding his own business. Martin reached his home, then instead of entering, turned around, walked away from his home to Zimmerman, and attacked him. > > My sole motive is to make it as clear as possible that it is absolutely fucking wrong to arrest, charge, and try someone for defending themselves against an unprovoked attack. > > Zimmerman hunted nobody down. The _prosecution_ witnesses made that clear, as if it wasn’t already. …According to the murder defendant. The prosecution made clear he was doing what thousands of school kids do every day, he was walking home, after having went to 711 for juice and candy. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1835 "2013-07-13T00:36:19Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Except for those times when a fat man with a gun causes them. Yeah, yeah, we get it, he’s a BIG FAT lying liar. Let’s move on now. ETA: Um, you do realize that being arrested and charged does not make one guilty. You know that, right? Please tell me you know that. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1836 "2013-07-13T00:40:24Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Certainly, if that person with one punch broke my nose and knocked me to the ground. (…after you had followed and chased down and threatened them with a gun ?) ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1837 "2013-07-13T00:41:18Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Except for those times when a fat man with a gun causes them. Yes, obviously, but that’s not relevant to this case, for a couple of reasons. One of which is that, at the time the shooting happened, neither person was fat. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of your incoherent ramblings. > [@Tollhouse](#): > > …According to the murder defendant. The prosecution made clear he was doing what thousands of school kids do every day, he was walking home, after having went to 711 for juice and candy. No, again you are factually incorrect. The defendant didn’t testify, and the prosecution introduced the evidence that showed that Zimmerman stopped following Martin, and that Martin had reached the house where he was staying before returning (for reasons unknown) to Zimmerman. Again, facts. Inconvenient little buggers when you want to spew prejudiced bilious rants everywhere, but people here in the main aren’t stupid, and can see through your nonsense. As I’ve just said to **Stoid** , you may ignore my opinion all you want, but you may not ignore the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1838 "2013-07-13T00:43:32Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Yeah, yeah, we get it, he’s a BIG FAT lying liar. Let’s move on now. > > ETA: Um, you do realize that being arrested and charged does not make one guilty. You know that, right? Please tell me you know that. And what about a person who hasnt been charged with anything ? You do realize that NOT being found guilty of anything does not make one guilty? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1839 "2013-07-13T00:44:35Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > (…after you had followed and chased down and threatened them with a gun ?) Had I done that, they would still be capable of beating me, yes. What’s the relevance, though? I don’t own a gun, and would be physically incapable of chasing someone of Martin’s build if they wanted to get away. Zimmerman, interestingly enough, would have struggled to chase Martin even before he put weight on, and didn’t threaten anyone with a gun. I don’t see what your hypothetical adds to this discussion, but it has nothing to do with the facts (hey, those again) of this case. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1840 "2013-07-13T00:46:55Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > ETA: Um, you do realize that being arrested and charged does not make one guilty. You know that, right? Please tell me you know that. If he’s like a few other people we’ve “debated” in the other thread, no, he really doesn’t know this. It’s sadly, and scarily, a common view that people aren’t arrested unless they’ve done something wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=91) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=93)