# State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman Trial Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 20, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501 "2013-06-20T20:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 94
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1861 "2013-07-13T02:03:33Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I’m fine,…thanks for asking. I completely understand the difference between self defense and straight up murder. I can see it, loud and clear. That reply has nothing to do with the question I asked. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1862 "2013-07-13T02:05:47Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That reply has nothing to do with the question I asked. Frankenstein never scared me. /Christopher Walken ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1863 "2013-07-13T02:08:29Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That reply has nothing to do with the question I asked. I understand,…the fact that I do not agree with you does not mean I don’t understand. Justifiable homicide is not the act gz committed that day. It was murder. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1864 "2013-07-13T02:10:13Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I understand,…the fact that I do not agree with you does not mean I don’t understand. Justifiable homicide is not the act gz committed that day. It was murder. That’s not relevant to the question I asked, either. You said there were cases where justifiable homicide is murder. I asked which you didn’t understand, as that’s clearly a false statement, and (unlike some people in this lovely little chat) I don’t immediately assume people I dislike are lying. So, I assume you don’t understand one concept or the other. Which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1865 "2013-07-13T02:16:31Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > It’s curious that Zimmerman is a BIG FAT LYING LIAR, but, what, an ex-coworker and an ex-girlfriend are the bright, shining harbingers of truth? > > ." :p. Oops, you forgot about the police officer who arrested gz for battery…so, lets see, the fiancee, the coworker and the police officer that gz assaulted, they were all lying, and gz was innocent…gz sure does bump into alot of people over the years that results in him being accused of battery or murder…is it a conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1866 "2013-07-13T02:18:05Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > :p. > > Oops, you forgot about the police officer who arrested gz for battery…so, lets see, the fiancee, the coworker and the police officer that gz assaulted, they were all lying, and gz was innocent…gz sure does bump into alot of people over the years that results in him being accused of battery or murder…is it a conspiracy? Charges. Were. Dropped. Dropped, as in bye-bye, don’t exist no more, no trial, no plea, no conviction, no guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1867 "2013-07-13T02:20:22Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > That’s not relevant to the question I asked, either. You said there were cases where justifiable homicide is murder. I asked which you didn’t understand, as that’s clearly a false statement, and (unlike some people in this lovely little chat) I don’t immediately assume people I dislike are lying. So, I assume you don’t understand one concept or the other. > > Which is it? Either you misunderstood what I said, or I didnt express what I meant correctly. I was saying that yes, I know justifiable homicide is different from murder. Ok? But…what gz did that night was NOT a case of justifiable homicide, it was straight up murder. I hope that clear it up for you, I dont know how much more clear I can make it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1868 "2013-07-13T02:24:49Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Either you misunderstood what I said, or I didnt express what I meant correctly. I was saying that yes, I know justifiable homicide is different from murder. Ok? But…what gz did that night was NOT a case of justifiable homicide, it was straight up murder. > > I hope that clear it up for you, I dont know how much more clear I can make it. Ah, I see now. It’s Florida law and the nature of evidence and proof you don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1869 "2013-07-13T02:26:36Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Charges. Were. Dropped. > > Dropped, as in bye-bye, don’t exist no more, no trial, no plea, no conviction, no guilt. He was not found innocent or exonerated of the battery, they offered him the chance to enter an alcohol program in lieu of dropping the charge. Perhaps due to his age, or whatever, but hardly a case where the police said " oh, sorry, we screwed up, you didnt assault the officer." But I know, nothing gz does is his fault, its all a big conspiracy ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1870 "2013-07-13T02:28:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ah, I see now. It’s Florida law and the nature of evidence and proof you don’t understand. What don’t YOU understand? I stated that I KNOW the charge and nature of justifiable hom. is different than a murder charge. I KNOW THAT…DO YOU UNDERSTAND? ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1871 "2013-07-13T02:28:34Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > He was not found innocent or exonerated of the battery, they offered him the chance to enter an alcohol program in lieu of dropping the charge. Perhaps due to his age, or whatever, but hardly a case where the police said " oh, sorry, we screwed up, you didnt assault the officer." > > But I know, nothing gz does is his fault, its all a big conspiracy I see what you’re saying. Loudly. You claim murder. Now prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1872 "2013-07-13T02:32:55Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > He was not found innocent or exonerated of the battery, they offered him the chance to enter an alcohol program in lieu of dropping the charge. Perhaps due to his age, or whatever, but hardly a case where the police said " oh, sorry, we screwed up, you didnt assault the officer." > > But I know, nothing gz does is his fault, its all a big conspiracy Of course he wasn’t found innocent, he _is_ innocent until proven otherwise. He was, in fact, exonerated. The charges were dropped. The arrest was expunged. It was determined by those who actually get to make the decision that there was no reason to follow up on the allegation, and there is, legally speaking, no stain on his record. He was not proven guilty of assaulting the officer - so, legally (the sense that actually matters), he did not assault him. Again, you simply don’t understand what happened. It seems like you are confusing the dropping of the charges with a similar situation which sometimes happens where one _admits_ guilt in exchange for a lighter punishment, which could be an alcohol program. Whilst superficially similar, this would be the opposite of what actually happened. Much like in the Martin shooting. Whilst it may superficially look like murder, it is in fact the opposite - Zimmerman is the victim of a crime here, not Martin. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1873 "2013-07-13T02:35:02Z")
**Steophan** , don’t you know that if Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must convict!? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1874 "2013-07-13T02:35:43Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > What don’t YOU understand? I stated that I KNOW the charge and nature of justifiable hom. is different than a murder charge. I KNOW THAT…DO YOU UNDERSTAND? I understand that you still don’t get that killing someone in self defence is justifiable homicide, that _everyone_ is innocent until proven guilty, and that baseless speculation in defiance of the evidence is not sufficient proof to overcome that presumption. Also, justifiable homicide is not a charge. Seriously, figure out what you’re talking about before pressing keys. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1875 "2013-07-13T02:37:40Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > **Steophan** , don’t you know that if Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must convict!? That’s the most coherent argument in this thread tonight for his guilt. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1876 "2013-07-13T02:38:09Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Either you misunderstood what I said, or I didnt express what I meant correctly. Definitely the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1877 "2013-07-13T02:40:46Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > He was not found innocent or exonerated of the battery, they offered him the chance to enter an alcohol program in lieu of dropping the charge. That sentence doesn’t state what you think it states. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1878 "2013-07-13T02:54:14Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Doorhinge, I know, my penchant for truth can be a real pain in the arse…I forgot to go along with your fantasy version that the domestic violence and battery of a police officer were just misunderstandings,… poor georgie Hahaha. Your “penchant” for the truth could never be considered a pain in the arse. It kills time while waiting for the jury to reach a verdict. This is the “trial” thread and neither TM’s violent and criminal past or GZ swapping charges with his ex or the confrontation with the undercover officer was admitted in evidence. Did you happen to notice that Guy lied to the jury during the rebuttal when he told them that it was GZ who turned TM over (from face down to face up)? It was testified to in court that the 2nd officer on the scene rolled TM over TM’s left shoulder in order to begin CPR/attend the wound. How could Guy forget such an obvious fact. It’s obvious that Guy must be found guilty. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1879 "2013-07-13T02:59:50Z")
**Tollhouse** just wants Zimmerman on the stand so he can demand to know whether he did, in fact, order the Code Red. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501/1880 "2013-07-13T03:43:36Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > **Tollhouse** just wants Zimmerman on the stand so he can demand to know whether he did, in fact, order the Code Red. That’s a relief! I was afraid I wasn’t going to be able to use the ‘liar, liar, pants-on-fire’ defense. - Lt. Daniel Kaffee [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=93) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-florida-vs-george-zimmerman-trial-thread/661501.md?page=95)