# State of the Nation: WE'RE SERIOUSLY FUCKED \[long\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2002, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717 "2002-10-03T18:10:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/81 "2002-10-04T15:46:29Z")
I note that **Divemaster** failed to post his line-by-line refutation this morning. Suprising, really. I note that those who wish respect for their political views call me a “fucking idiot,” for having different, heartfelt political views. How is that consistent? Unless it was meant to prove how childish they are. I have not personally called anyone anything. A generalization is a generalization. I’ve stated that enough that I do not see need to state it further. However, if you think attacking me personally for my views will help _your_ cause, your sadly mistaken. Let the record show I spent last night, till 1 in the morning, leafleting for the upcoming protest. Let the record also show that I personally am bringing 30 people to that protest, including my family. Certain people say I do more harm than good. Have 30 people stopped going to the protest because of my post? Have leaflets not been handed out? I don’t think so. The point of the original post was not to raise more protest, it was to let the conservatives, in general, know this: \*\*I will not be stopped until the Republicans have been. \*\* It’s due to my heartfelt, reasoned, experienced opinion that they are a force of evil on the body politic. Feel free to disagree with me, but the childish insults? The Childish insults is what I’ve come to expect from the conservatives, so you might try a different tack, unless you want to make my desire stronger, and make yourself look foolish. -Ace ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/82 "2002-10-04T15:48:11Z")
Another liberal chiming in to tell you to shut your everloving yapper, **Ace**. Had that OP been from anyone else but you, I would’ve assumed it was meant ironically. 'Cause that’s, y’know, how incredibly paranoid and unbalanced its o’erlong rantings are. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/83 "2002-10-04T15:50:34Z")
😃 That’s rich! Just imagine, childish insults from those God forsaken evil forces! ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/84 "2002-10-04T15:52:24Z")
Ace, are you missing the part where people on YOUR SIDE are also disagreeing with you and calling you an idiot? Or do you just choose to blame the backlash entirely on opposing viewpoints? ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/85 "2002-10-04T16:01:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jarbabyj \* > \*\*Ace, are you missing the part where people on YOUR SIDE are also disagreeing with you and calling you an idiot? Or do you just choose to blame the backlash entirely on opposing viewpoints? \*\* No, no, no, **jarbabyj.** In **Ace’s** worldview, Democrats and other liberals who disagree with him aren’t really Democrats. They are closet conservatives or fifth columnists. **AceoSpades,** the Pat Robertson of the Democratic Party. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/86 "2002-10-04T16:01:16Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s due to my heartfelt, reasoned, experienced opinion that they are a force of evil on the body politic. For some reason, this sentence really reminded me of this site in its scattershot invocation of eeevil. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/87 "2002-10-04T16:42:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > **I note that Divemaster failed to post his line-by-line refutation this morning. Suprising, really.** I prefer to watch you sink on your own. More fun that way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/88 "2002-10-04T17:48:19Z")
What a blowhard you are, **Divemaster**. I hope some day you see the benefits of honesty and integrity. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/89 "2002-10-04T18:02:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*What a blowhard you are, **Divemaster**. I hope some day you see the benefits of honesty and integrity. \*\* FTR, that is far and away the funniest thing I have ever read. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/90 "2002-10-04T18:09:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The point of the original post was not to raise more protest, it was to let the conservatives, in general, know this: > > I will not be stopped until the Republicans have been. Well, given both the level of the OP, and subsequent follow up, I’m sure you will understand if my undershorts remain dry at the prospect. Gee whiz, a hysterical liberal blow-hard ranting that Apocalypse is upon us because his party is about to lose an election. The horror. Enjoy your protest, **AceofSpades**. In fact, I hope that you, your family, and the other guy who cares, have a wonderful time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/91 "2002-10-04T18:33:48Z")
Thanks for the semi-good wishes Shodan. I’ve got to take what I can get around here. FTR, I called up the organizer to get an update on the headcount; 10,000 last I heard. Her mailbox was full. Here’s a list of the participating groups: **Organizations (partial list):** Action for Justice Committee of Community Church of New York Afghan Communicator Another World Is Possible, NYC A.N.S.W.E.R. Arab Women’s Solidarity Association Aronowitz for Governor 2002 Boston Mobilization Bronx Action for Justice and Peace Brooklyn Society for Ethical Culture, Ethical Action Committee Center for Constitutional Rights College Voice, College of Staten Island, CUNY Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, NYC Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), NY Chapter > **[The Aggressive Progressives - democrats.com](https://democrats.com/)** > > Democrats.com is the original online community of progressive activists, with over 3 million supporters. We fight for jobs, justice, healthcare, education, the environment, and peace. Dick Gregory Health Foundation DRUM (Desis Rising Up and Moving) Fellowship of Reconciliation Flushing (Queens) Green Party Forum of Concerned Religious Leaders, NYC Freedom Socialist Party GABRIELA Network, NY/NJ Chapter Global Coalition for Peace Global Justice and Peace Ministries, Riverside Church Global Policy Forum Ground Zero for Peace G. Village Democratic District Leader Haitian Coalition for Justice Harlem Anti-War Coalition Harlem Tenants Council Intercommunity Center for Justice and Peace International Action Center International Socialist Organization Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) Justice for Detainees Kent State Anti-War Committee Long Island Alliance for Peaceful Alternatives Lower Manhattan Alliance for Progressive Political Action Manhattan Libertarian Party Mirabai Films Mosque of Islamic Brotherhood, Harlem, Imam Talib Abdul-Rashid National Lawyers Guild National Youth and Student Peace Coalition Network in Solidarity with the People of the Philippines (NISPOP) New Abolitionist Movement New Jersey Solidarity New York City Labor Against the War (NYCLAW) New Yorkers Say No To War New York University Peace Coalition Northern Manhattan Neighbors for Peace & Justice Oct. 22 Coalition to Stop Police Brutality, Repression & the Criminalization of a Generation Provincial Council, Sisters of the Good Shepherd Peace Action of New York State Peace Action, Cleveland Performers and Artists for Nuclear Disarmament (PAND) Radical Art Collective, New York University Radical Women Refuse & Resist! Riverdale-Yonkers Society for Ethical Culture SALAAM - South Asian League of Artists in America Sakhi for South Asian Women Arthur Z. Schwartz, General Counsel Transport Workers Union, Professional Staff Congress- CUNY, Local 169 UNITE\* South Asian League of Artists in America (SALAAM) South Asians Against Police Brutality and Racism Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Martin L. King, III, President Southern Christian Leadership Foundation, Rev. E. Randel T. Osburn, Exec. Dir. Southern Peace Research and Education Center Stand Up New York Coalition United for Justice with Peace, Boston Ursuline Sisters of Tildonk, Leadership Team, US Province Veterans for Peace, NYC Chapter Vieques Support Campaign Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Anti-Imperialist West Side Peace Action WESPAC Foundation Women for Afghan Women Women in Islam Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom, U.S. Section Working Indigenous Nations Defense and Support (WINDS) I’ll be sure to tell the few people who turn up that you said hi, and see if I can start a collection for you. Are you boxers or briefs? Hugs, Ace ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/92 "2002-10-04T18:50:08Z")
Are you that crazy guy with shopping bags on his feet that wanders around with a megaphone all the time? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/93 "2002-10-04T20:01:54Z")
1. They’re not shopping bags, they’re plastic bags. No shopping involved, really. 2. It’s not a megaphone, it’s Mr. Microphone; a distinction with a difference. 3. No, I’m not that guy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/94 "2002-10-04T21:16:57Z")
Ace, I might have caught myself in agreement with what I _read into_ your post: that things can get a bit scary when all three branches of a government are controlled by a single party. I would be uncomfortable in that situation if it were Repubs, Dems, Libs, or even greenies. But I am unwilling to allow my fiscally conservative socially liberal candidates wither on the vine just to prevent this. The dems and the repubs have allowed the fringes on either side to take too much power. My only way of protesting such a state of affairs is to humbly seek out the middle, and hope and pray that the rest of the nation sees that such a notion IS NOT folly. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/95 "2002-10-04T21:31:38Z")
Ace: It’s easy to make grand pronouncements about how many people will show up to a rally; it’s quite another to _actually get them to show up_. Now maybe this will be the largest crowd ever to protest in New York; I really dunno. But I’m gonna want to see bodies as proof, and I suspect most of the SDMB would agree. So, I was wondering: do you have a digital camera? You should snap a few pics and put them up on the Internet (there are any number of free online photo album sites you could use) so the SDMB can make its own evaluation come Monday morning. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/96 "2002-10-04T22:12:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **And what of Ace’s blatant plagiarism of Joyce’s style, as in Molly Bloom’s soliliquy at the end of Ulysses** Don’t give Ace that much credit there, **gobear**. Perhaps he just heard [http://www.musiclinks.nl/songteksten/Amber/10378.html](http://www.musiclinks.nl/f_master.html?%5Burl)]Amber’s song “Yes!” _grin_ That’s all… I really have little to say when it comes to the apples vs. apples comparison of the Big Two. One’s more crisp, the other more sweet, but they both have worms inside. ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/97 "2002-10-04T22:14:12Z")
Crap, sorry about the bad link… here’s the [http://www.musiclinks.nl/songteksten/Amber/10378.html](http://www.musiclinks.nl/f_master.html?%5Burl)]right one. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/98 "2002-10-04T22:26:53Z")
Oh, I’ll have pictures, and yes, from the digital camera. How on earth you think that anything short of a satellite picture would prove anything, I haven’t the foggiest, but I’ll be happy to pass on my experiences over at MPSIMS. But as for you, you live in NY – why not just show up? I’ll make sure you’re safe from all us vicious hippies. For size comparison (ahem), if you’ve been to various functions in NY, know that 10,000 would be a small turnout for the Opera in the Park, decent for the 5-borough, and tiny for some of the mega-events in the last 5 years. (Garth Brooks comes to mind.) I don’t know the protest numbers, but I think 10,000 would be on the small end, and 100,000 would be a great showing. I’ll keep y’all posted. **Nurse Carmen** : I agree, that the government should be split. Naturally, I perceive a few differences between Democrats and Republicans. For my money, Democrats are well-meaning corruptible backbiters, whereas Republicans run a tight ship of pure evil. As for those still unperturbed: Anyone for Arsenic? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@The\_Ace\_of\_Swords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ace_of_Swords)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/99 "2002-10-04T22:32:13Z")
**Avalonian** : Talk about me in the third person, if you must, but do try to make your links not suck, old bean. And Gobear, alas, is no more for the thread. I can only hypothesize that he tired of entertaining me. More’s the pity. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2002, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717/100 "2002-10-04T23:54:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ace0Spades \* > \*\*How on earth you think that anything short of a satellite picture would prove anything, I haven’t the foggiest, but I’ll be happy to pass on my experiences over at MPSIMS. \*\* When the estimate crowds on the Washington Mall, they just use photos taken from a nearby building. Anything that can get you looking “down” towards the crowd is useful. That may be hard to pull off in the park, but hey, you’re a resourceful guy, right?\*\* > [@](#): > > But as for you, you live in NY – why not just show up? I’ll make sure you’re safe from all us vicious hippies.\*\* Dude, I moved to the suburbs _precisely_ because I was sick of spending my weekends in the city. Besides, my presence would falsely inflate your numbers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-nation-were-seriously-fucked-long/130717.md?page=6)