# State of the Union: Obama seals his fate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014 "2011-01-26T03:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/101 "2011-01-26T20:12:47Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > And as for moderate, yes, I’m one of the few on this board, unfortunately. But that’s OK - much like Cecil, my mission in life is to stamp out ignorance, one thread at a time… Name some public figures whose politics more or less represent yours, then we can discuss whether you/they are “moderates.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/102 "2011-01-26T20:39:26Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Paul Ryan’s speech was given rather well. I like how he said it, but he also made no mention of the things that Obama omitted as well. I think that Ryan’s message plays into Obama’s hands, at least a little bit. I was surprised that Ryan did not go into a bit more detail about his specific plans for how to deal with budget issues. Plans that he has publicly released like: - cut taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population in half. - Raise taxes for 95 percent of the population. -Institute sharp cuts in Medicare, achieved by giving seniors vouchers and telling them to buy their own insurance. Money would be saved by making the vouchers small enough that those with the funds would have to supplement to get good insurance, while those with no funds would get poor coverage. - 25 percent cut in domestic discretionary spending over a decade, which would include energy policy, education and the court system. Oh wait. I think I figured out why he did not mention his priorities in a nationally televised address… ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/103 "2011-01-26T20:50:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Name some public figures whose politics more or less represent yours, then we can discuss whether you/they are “moderates.” What kind of bullshit test is that? All of your political opponents must neatly pigeon hole themselves for you? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/104 "2011-01-26T20:51:40Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > What kind of bullshit test is that? All of your political opponents must neatly pigeon hole themselves for you? I think not. What kind of bullshit nonsequitur is that?! ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/105 "2011-01-26T20:51:51Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > What kind of bullshit test is that? All of your political opponents must neatly pigeon hole themselves for you? I think not. It’s not necessarily a bullshit test. After all, it seems to be a pretty convenient barometer. “I believe in A, B, and C.” “Oh, do you know who else believed in A, B, and C? Hitler.” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/106 "2011-01-26T21:01:11Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Can you name 3 GOP ones? Obama can, and did: Medical liability tort reform, corporate tax cuts and simplification, earmark ban. Is Obama a moderate? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/107 "2011-01-26T21:06:05Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I was surprised that Ryan did not go into a bit more detail about his specific plans for how to deal with budget issues. Plans that he has publicly released like: > > - cut taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population in half. > - Raise taxes for 95 percent of the population. > -Institute sharp cuts in Medicare, achieved by giving seniors vouchers and telling them to buy their own insurance. Money would be saved by making the vouchers small enough that those with the funds would have to supplement to get good insurance, while those with no funds would get poor coverage. > - 25 percent cut in domestic discretionary spending over a decade, which would include energy policy, education and the court system. I’m sure you accurately summarized his proposals, but can we have a cite? I mean, just for completeness. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/108 "2011-01-26T21:24:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m sure you accurately summarized his proposals, but can we have a cite? I mean, just for completeness. Well, here is the Medicare proposal: [QUOTE=[http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=8520](http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/Issues/Issue/?IssueID=8520)] It preserves the existing Medicare program for those currently enrolled or becoming eligible in the next 10 years (those 55 and older today) - So Americans can receive the benefits they planned for throughout their working lives. For those currently under 55 – as they become Medicare-eligible – it creates a Medicare payment, initially averaging $11,000, to be used to purchase a Medicare certified plan. The payment is adjusted to reflect medical inflation, and pegged to income, with low-income individuals receiving greater support. The plan also provides risk adjustment, so those with greater medical needs receive a higher payment. [/QUOTE] And, of course, there is this part: [QUOTE=[http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/plan/#Healthsecurity](http://www.roadmap.republicans.budget.house.gov/plan/#Healthsecurity)] Fail-Safe Mechanism. The proposal would establish a mechanism that would be activated in the Medicare trustees determined that the percentage of funding from general revenues exceeded 45 percent in the prior fiscal year. If activated, on 1 July or 2 months after the Medicare trustees’ report is released, whichever comes later, the mechanism would apply an automatic 1-percent reduction in payments for services provided in Medicare’s fee-for-service sector. [/QUOTE] I can only imagine that was added to make the plan financially feasible. One might note that in 2010 the Fail-Safe Mechanism would have been tripped, as Medicare funding was 49% of general revenue ([http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?cb=58&sctn=170&ch=1813](http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?cb=58&sctn=170&ch=1813)). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/109 "2011-01-26T21:40:08Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Name some public figures whose politics more or less represent yours, then we can discuss whether you/they are “moderates.” How about Bob McDonnell, a pretty moderate Republican? Or Mark Warner, a guy (and a Dem) I voted for last two times (gov and Senator)? Or Jim Webb, my other senator, another Democrat? I also like both Susan Collins and Joe Lieberman (both run the Homeland Security committee in the Senate - and I’m an executive with a large Government contractor that focuses on DHS so I know their work probably better than almost anyone on this board). They are both moderates (although I fully expect to hear some whining from this board about Lieberman being conservative, and if it were a righty board, I’m sure I’d hear similar whining about Collins being liberal). The liberal I like most is probably Juan Williams. I also like blog-libs like Saletan and some of the other Slaters. Speaking of Sunday talking heads, I also like George Will. I even like some of the things Obama has done, although frankly his (and Reid’s) fiscal recklessness has pretty much sentenced this country to eternal indebtedness to China. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/110 "2011-01-26T21:44:31Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > What kind of bullshit test is that? All of your political opponents must neatly pigeon hole themselves for you? I think not. No, it’s OK. I don’t mind the education of those here. If I can save one soul, my work is done. Now, I hope the level of discourse is above the lines of, “You said you like this guy! He had [insert obscure position here]! You disagree! You lie!” Only time will tell. From where I sit, it’s nice to provide a counterbalance to the blatant idolatry for The Messiah that is regularly on display on the SDMB. I’d like to think most here are reasonable (besides the obvious ones, people like **Dio** … then again, I’m pretty sure that based on that poster’s positions, they are probably a Rovian plant trying to make the left look stupid). ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/111 "2011-01-26T21:48:17Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > And as for moderate, yes, I’m one of the few on this board, unfortunately. Coincidentally, anyone who disagrees with any of the regulars on the Hannity forums is invariably called a “Liberal”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/112 "2011-01-26T21:49:55Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > the blatant idolatry for The Messiah that is regularly on display on the SDMB. :rolleyes: The Left has regularly criticized the Obama administration for their positions and actions. If anything, it’s the centrist Democrats who have that hero-worship thing going. Obama is hardly a liberal… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/113 "2011-01-26T21:52:45Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Obama can, and did: Medical liability tort reform, corporate tax cuts and simplification, earmark ban. > > Is Obama a moderate? yeah, you didn’t take the time to dive into the specifics. That’s OK, let me help you. You are welcome, don’t thank me, just pay it forward. As for tort reform, I rely upon the AP’s analysis and factchecking: > [@](#): > > OBAMA: “I’m willing to look at other ideas to bring down costs, including one that Republicans suggested last year: medical malpractice reform to rein in frivolous lawsuits.” > > THE FACTS: Republicans may be forgiven if this offer makes them feel like Charlie Brown running up to kick the football, only to have it pulled away, again. > > Obama has expressed openness before to this prominent Republican proposal, but it has not come to much. It was one of several GOP ideas that were dropped or diminished in the health care law after Obama endorsed them in a televised bipartisan meeting at the height of the debate. > > Republicans want federal action to limit jury awards in medical malpractice cases; what Obama appears to be offering, by supporting state efforts, falls short of that. The president has said he agrees that fear of being sued leads to unnecessary tests and procedures that drive up health care costs. So far the administration has provided grants to test ideas aimed at reducing medical mistakes and resolving malpractice cases by negotiation, but has recommended no change in federal law. > > Trial lawyers, major political donors to Democratic candidates, are strongly opposed to caps on jury awards. But the administration has been reluctant to support other approaches, such as the creation of specialized courts where expert judges, not juries, would decide malpractice cases. In October 2009 the Congressional Budget Office estimated that government health care programs could save $41 billion over 10 years if nationwide limits on jury awards for pain and suffering and other similar curbs were enacted. We’ve already addressed the earmark ban upthread. But let me repost it here, for your own edification. I’m happy to help. > [@](#): > > OBAMA: Vowed to veto any bills sent to him that include “earmarks,” pet spending provisions pushed by individual lawmakers. “Both parties in Congress should know this: If a bill comes to my desk with earmarks inside, I will veto it.” > > THE FACTS: House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, has promised that no bill with earmarks will be sent to Obama in the first place. Republicans have taken the lead in battling earmarks while Obama signed plenty of earmark-laden spending bills when Democrats controlled both houses. As recently as last month, Obama was prepared to sign a catchall spending measure stuffed with earmarks, before it collapsed in the Senate after an outcry from conservatives over the bill’s $8 billion-plus in home-state pet projects. > > It’s a turnabout for the president; in early 2009, Obama sounded like an apologist for the practice: “Done right, earmarks have given legislators the opportunity to direct federal money to worthy projects that benefit people in their districts, and that’s why I’ve opposed their outright elimination,” he said then. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/114 "2011-01-26T22:00:39Z")
I can’t imagine why that conversion thing isn’t working out, **Mr Smashy**. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/115 "2011-01-26T22:04:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Now, I hope the level of discourse is above the lines of, “You said you like this guy! He had [insert obscure position here]! You disagree! You lie!” No, I expect it would go more like, “You said you like X and his politics are like yours and you call yourself a **moderate?!** X is a moderate like Boehner is a Communist!” (And the writer of the text-in-quotes probably would be right.) You see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/116 "2011-01-26T22:56:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I can’t imagine why that conversion thing isn’t working out, **Mr Smashy**. 😉 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MilTan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@MilTan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MilTan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/117 "2011-01-26T23:02:30Z")
Wow, I didn’t know the AP factcheck columns were written by Republicans: “Obama has expressed openness before to this prominent Republican proposal, but it has not come to much. It was one of several GOP ideas that were dropped or diminished in the health care law after Obama endorsed them in a televised bipartisan meeting at the height of the debate.” I’m sure med-mal reform would have been more likely to make it into the final bill had the Republicans been at all inclined to vote for it. And saying that it’s _Obama_ who kept promising to work with the GOP on HCR only to renege pretty much pegged my irony meter. “House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, has promised that no bill with earmarks will be sent to Obama in the first place. Republicans have taken the lead in battling earmarks while Obama signed plenty of earmark-laden spending bills when Democrats controlled both houses. As recently as last month, Obama was prepared to sign a catchall spending measure stuffed with earmarks, before it collapsed in the Senate after an outcry from conservatives over the bill’s $8 billion-plus in home-state pet projects.” Left unsaid is that many of those “$8 billion-plus in home-state pet projects” were inserted by Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/118 "2011-01-26T23:03:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, I expect it would go more like, “You said you like X and his politics are like yours and you call yourself a **moderate?!** X is a moderate like Boehner is a Communist!” (And the writer of the text-in-quotes probably would be right.) You see the difference? **Brain** , I don’t know many conservatives/tea party types who are pro- Gay marriage/civil unions, pro drug legalization, pro Obama’s approach to ending OIF and OEF asap, pro Defense cuts, and for raising many taxes once the economy has more green shoots (including the gas tax and higher marginal rates). I even thought most of ARRA was a good idea, although many of the specific programs were completely retarded, especially the high-speed rail and green energy claptrap. I’m also a fan of limiting filibusters for Supreme court nominations, something that the GOP used to do (didn’t they approve Ginsburg with something like 90+ votes? And Kennedy ‘borked’ Bork, even though the ABA approved him… IMHO, that’s what started the most recent bad blood between the parties, that and Gore v Bush in 2000) Maybe I’m cut more from the cloth of Tsongas, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/119 "2011-01-26T23:29:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Please. I can name half a dozen Democratic positions I agree with. > > Can you name 3 GOP ones? > > Now, maybe I’m not a moderate by the standards of _this board_, which swings uber lefty. Which is fine, it’s a free country. But by the standards of America (which has twice as many conservatives as liberals)? Um, yeah. Leaving aside the assumption that the GOP or Democrats are representative of the American political continuum, the problem with this is that I can’t name 3 GOP positions, period. The list goes: 1. Cut taxes. 2. Er… ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/120 "2011-01-26T23:48:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The list goes: > > 1. Cut taxes. > 2. Er… 1. Profit! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014.md?page=7)