# State of the Union: Obama seals his fate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014 "2011-01-26T03:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/141 "2011-01-27T17:37:52Z")
I think I will vote for Palpatine when he runs in 2012. I don’t even know what party he’s with, but everything he says just… sounds good… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/142 "2011-01-27T17:38:13Z")
Nobody gives a shit what Harry Reid thinks. The notion that this is going to be the thing that sinks Obama is just desperate, wishful thinking on your part. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/143 "2011-01-27T17:38:35Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Presidents don’t even get a “honeymoon” any more. I’m not sure about that, and he’s been in office for two years now - that would be absurdly long. It’s true that the press rushed to say “the honeymoon is over!” every 10 minutes from before he took office. He took office in the middle of two wars and a bad economy. It’s not a surprise if people weren’t _that_ patient. Obama himself has said he and his advisers knew he’d have a couple of months before people started assigning him more blame for the economy his poll numbers started falling. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Apparently even the Dems are not pleased with Obama’s veto promise: It’s not a surprise that Congressional Democrats would complain about this. A bunch of Congressional Republicans didn’t like it either, but they felt they had to go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/144 "2011-01-27T17:52:45Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > You would benefit from looking at the posts here from an objective viewpoint. Just to cite a very small example, look at how many people put some bastardization of the words Barack Obama in their location field during the election ( **Raven** still has it, I see). > > People worship the guy, that’s pretty obvious. And that’s fine, despite the fact he’s run us off the cliff financially, after all it’s a free country. But I’m going to call a spade a spade (so to speak). DJIA: Jan 20, 2009 = 7,948 DJIA: Jan 20, 2011 = 11,822 +49% NASDAQ: Jan 20, 2009 = 1,441 NASDAQ: Jan 20, 2011 = 2,740 +91% Median Housing Prices: Dec, 2008 = $229,600 Median Housing Price: Dec, 2010 = $241,500 +5% ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/145 "2011-01-27T17:59:07Z")
Before anyone says, “no fair, you used January 2009 for the other metrics and December 2008 for housing prices”, the [January 2009 median was _even lower_](http://www.census.gov/const/uspricemon.pdf): $208,600. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/146 "2011-01-27T18:17:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Personally, I don’t think a somewhat-libertarian, mostly-incoherent political philosophy makes one a moderate. Well, let’s just say it makes me more moderate than you, mr Barackington DC ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/147 "2011-01-27T18:19:29Z")
One last thought - while many on this board may be so far left as to call Obama conservative, or moderate, or at least not liberal, whatever. It may or may not interest you to know that the guy who knows him probably better than anyone in the world, even his wife, calls him a liber… um, I mean [progressive](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/david_axelrod_no_grand_reposit.html?hpid=opinionsbox1). ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/148 "2011-01-27T18:25:59Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Well, let’s just say it makes me more moderate than you, mr Barackington DC If you want to pit me, please go ahead. I think most posters around here recognize that I identify as a liberal, yet have no problem whatsoever criticizing “my” side. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/149 "2011-01-27T18:28:41Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > One last thought - > > while many on this board may be so far left as to call Obama conservative, or moderate, or at least not liberal, whatever. It may or may not interest you to know that the guy who knows him probably better than anyone in the world, even his wife, calls him a liber… um, I mean [progressive](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2011/01/david_axelrod_no_grand_reposit.html?hpid=opinionsbox1). So what? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/150 "2011-01-27T18:30:41Z")
How does his wife calling him a progressive make his actual policies any less center-right? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/151 "2011-01-27T18:31:15Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > DJIA: Jan 20, 2009 = 7,948 > DJIA: Jan 20, 2011 = 11,822 > +49% > > NASDAQ: Jan 20, 2009 = 1,441 > NASDAQ: Jan 20, 2011 = 2,740 > +91% > > Median Housing Prices: Dec, 2008 = $229,600 > Median Housing Price: Dec, 2010 = $241,500 > +5% OK, really last thought… **Gangster** , while your numbers are interesting, I _really_ hope you don’t judge the health of fiscal America on a few market numbers. You do understand that I’m mainly referring to the federal budget, the [the crushing deficit](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41276533/ns/politics-capitol_hill/), and the even more depressing national [debt](http://www.usdebtclock.org/). Sure, you get that. You’re a smart cookie. Now, the economic indicators you’ve cited do bear _some_ relevance, because they theoretically could portend of future GDP growth (especially equities, as they are forward looking and pre-baked), providing _some_ help in growing out of the hole. But way way WAAAAYYYYYY more relevant is the future federal budget picture, primarily the entitlements growing out of control. Now, does Obama get all the blame? No, the Democratically controlled congress from Jan 2007 until this month gets a lot. The GOP who lost their way during the W years and went on a spending spree (and a tax cut jag) also kicked into the problem. They were both trying to give the American public their proverbial free lunch, so they could get re-elected. But saying that Obama isn’t to blame pretty much denies a lot of reality. Not a new thing for many of the posters here, but there you have it. And not just because it has happened on his watch, although his administration’s contributions are [real troubling](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt), especially the fiscal nightmare of Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/152 "2011-01-27T18:35:13Z")
Obama inherited this shit from the Republicans. All he’s done is stop the slide and start the turnaround. When you say stuff like “the fiscal nightmare of Obamacare” you can’t be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/153 "2011-01-27T18:36:50Z")
Gosh, **Smashy** , why not start your own msgboard? Then all the Dopers who are sick of the radical/liberal bias here could shelter under your protection! You’ll need a server, of course, to deal with the massive response. Have you got one of those GameBoy gadgets, it could probably be converted. Then you could moderate like a motherfuck! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/154 "2011-01-27T18:38:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > But saying that Obama isn’t to blame pretty much denies a lot of reality. You assigned Obama primary responsibility by saying he “drove us off the cliff.” It’s undeniable that the deficit has gone up significantly under Obama’s administration. People differ on the effects, but that doesn’t equate to _Obama_ driving the car off the cliff. Nor does **Gangster Octopus** ’ post deny that Obama deserves any blame. I agree that the turnaround in the stock market doesn’t say much about the state of the economy at this point but if you’re going to imply it was Obama’s fault (and then back up to say he had help) it’s fair to point out the economy is not worse now than it was two years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/155 "2011-01-27T19:20:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you want to pit me, please go ahead. I think most posters around here recognize that I identify as a liberal, yet have no problem whatsoever criticizing “my” side. Life is too short to pit anyone. I leave that to **Lobo** and the other children here. As I’ve said many times in this thread, it’s a free country, and I respect all points of view. Except when people deny reality because it aligns with their point they are trying to make or their agenda… then I call them out on their intellectual dishonesty. But you called me out as having some whackjob political orientation (or in your words, a mostly-incoherent political philosophy… despite the fact that I’m [far more](http://washingtonindependent.com/88453/a-plurality-of-americans-self-identify-as-conservative-whats-new) in line with America’s political positioning that you, given that more than 2x as many people call themselves conservative as they do liberal). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/156 "2011-01-27T19:22:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You assigned Obama primary responsibility by saying he “drove us off the cliff.” It’s undeniable that the deficit has gone up significantly under Obama’s administration. People differ on the effects, but that doesn’t equate to _Obama_ driving the car off the cliff. Nor does **Gangster Octopus** ’ post deny that Obama deserves any blame. I agree that the turnaround in the stock market doesn’t say much about the state of the economy at this point but if you’re going to imply it was Obama’s fault (and then back up to say he had help) it’s fair to point out the economy is not worse now than it was two years ago. You really don’t think that **Gangster** , by posting those figures, was implying that the economic outlook of the Federal Government was improved under Obama? Really? As a direct response to my comment? :rolleyes: Maybe I read between the lines too much then. If so, my apologies to **Gangster**. Edit to add: I don’t think I was backing up at all. I still believe that the administration’s policies are the factor most responsible for our coming fiscal trainwreck. But he had help. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/157 "2011-01-27T19:25:06Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Life is too short to pit anyone. I leave that to **Lobo** and the other children here. Do I have to point out the irony here? You can’t insult other posters in this forum, so don’t do this again. Insults belong in the BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/158 "2011-01-27T19:25:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Obama inherited this shit from the Republicans. All he’s done is stop the slide and start the turnaround. > > When you say stuff like “the fiscal nightmare of Obamacare” you can’t be taken seriously. You are right, Mr Rove. Because you use fact and data to support your posts. All I ever do is change the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/159 "2011-01-27T19:26:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Do I have to point out the irony here? You can’t insult other posters in this forum, so don’t do this again. Insults belong in the BBQ Pit. Hey, I didn’t use his whole name 😉 OK though, point taken. In fact, I hope he starts another pit about me. The first one went so poorly, it ended up on failblog. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014/160 "2011-01-27T19:28:00Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > But you called me out as having some whackjob political orientation (or in your words, a mostly-incoherent political philosophy… despite the fact that I’m [far more](http://washingtonindependent.com/88453/a-plurality-of-americans-self-identify-as-conservative-whats-new) in line with America’s political positioning that you, given that more than 2x as many people call themselves conservative as they do liberal). So if only 20% of voters are liberal, how did a liberal like Obama manage to get elected president? Or is it more reasonable to conclude that he is, in fact, a moderate who appealed to moderates, and the liberals went along to prevent someone even more conservative than Obama from getting elected? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union-obama-seals-his-fate/569014.md?page=9)