# State of the Union **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095 "2005-02-03T02:04:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/21 "2005-02-03T06:52:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Of course, once again I was disappointed that the President chose to ignore the growing threat of Cognitive Dissonance… Ignore it? He’s the biggest _cause_ of it… > [@Sam Stone](#): > > The Democratic response was inane beyond belief. Yes, how _dare_ they not roll overlike a bunch of milquetoasts! :mad: :rolleyes: > [@Sam Stone](#): > > From the boos, it sounds like the Democrats have decided to make Social Security reform the battleground. They’re going to concede the war on terror and some social issues, and dig in their heels on Social Security. That’s going to be an interesting fight to watch, because the stakes are really high on this one. It remains to be seen which way the population will ultimately come down on the issue, but one side’s gonna win, and it’ll be a big win. Considering that a fair number of Republicans are also reportedly balking at Bush’s “reform,” it ought to be an interesting match. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/22 "2005-02-03T07:04:47Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > …That should scare Democrats, because his proposals are ambitious and contentious. Social Security Reform, threatening Syria, putting the screws to Iran, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia… Ought to scare anybody with the good sense God gave a goose. With _what_ are we going to threaten Syria? Call up the Girl Scouts? Bluffing only works when the other guy can’t see your cards. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/23 "2005-02-03T08:48:17Z")
Anybody else catch this one? “Homeownership is at an all time high”. If that’s true, it’s only because the population is at an all time high. Where I live, the percentage of wage-earners who can afford a house was somewhere aound 18% last time I heard. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/24 "2005-02-03T12:59:52Z")
Using the parents of a slain soldier as political pawns was shameful even for Bush. One can never overestimate the depths to which he will stoop. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/25 "2005-02-03T13:51:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > And say what you will about showmanship, but the picture of that Iraqi woman hugging the mother of the slain US soldier was powerful beyond description. Hold that up against the Deomcrats booing the Social Security message, and that’s all Bush needs to take away from this event. This is a sad comment: be moved towards the Republicans because the librated Iraqi hugged the mother of a slain soldier; move away from the Democrats because they strenuously objected to a contentious change to social and fiscal policy. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/26 "2005-02-03T14:06:09Z")
I didn’t watch the speech. Did he mention Osama bin Laden? ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/27 "2005-02-03T14:11:59Z")
With the Democrats, most of the membership of AARP, and rogue Republicans against him on the Social Security “reform” issue, come November 2006 the President is going to find himself swinging slowly in the wind as the rest of the pols jump ship. What’s going to be more important to them - supporting their lame duck president’s unpopular plan to “reform” a time-honored, bed-rock system like Social Security, or getting re-elected and retaining control of Congress? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/28 "2005-02-03T16:02:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Anybody else catch this one? “Homeownership is at an all time high”. If that’s true, it’s only because the population is at an all time high. No, home ownership is at an all time high percentage-wise too. [http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/18/pf/willis\_tips/index.htm](http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/18/pf/willis_tips/index.htm) “The Census Bureau says home ownership is at record high with nearly 69 percent of all Americans owning their own home.” Although I suspect we may be seeing a all-time high in foreclosures in the next few years too, as the banks have greatly loosened their lending criteria and the recent spate of interest-only and ARM loans will come home to roost on people who overextended themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/29 "2005-02-03T16:19:53Z")
It was decent political theater, nothing more. He spoke about what we figured he’d speak about, and avoided discussing what we figured he’d avoid. I thought he might surprise us maybe once, but aside from being a tad more polished, it was about what could be expected: A shitload of outright lies, half-truths, distortions, all glossed with platitudinous nonsense that suggests a complete disconection with external reality. Par for the course. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/30 "2005-02-03T16:36:39Z")
I was watching Cheney during certain key parts of the speech. Did anyone else notice that while Bush was saying something like “I will reach out to the other side of the aisle on the issue of how best to reform Social Security…” that Cheney got this huge grin on his face and starting shaking his head? It might have been coincidental, but it sure looked like he just couldn’t contain his mirth. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/31 "2005-02-03T16:41:08Z")
Did anyone else think that Bush throwing down on Egypt and Saudi was significant, or am I over thinking this? I thought it was a decent speech as far as these things go. He didn’t stutter or make any major blunders in the delivery…never a sure thing with Bush. As for the content, it was pretty standard fare for SotU addresses I’ve seen before. I actually felt myself warming to some of his proposals that appeal to my own political thinking…but found myself saying more than once “I’ll believe it when/if I see it”. Its a wildly ambitious agenda…and I’ll be frankly stunned if he gets more than a token amount of it pushed through. As to the Iraqi woman and the mother and father of the slain sergeant, I have to say that, though it was obviously staged (EVERYTHING is staged at such things) it was still pretty powerful (and it DID make a stark contrast to the Dems booing…something that, afaik, doesn’t usually happen at SotU addresses, just from common curtisy). I don’t think any of the people envolved in that little drama felt particularly exploited either. It was obvious from the soldiers letters home and from his parents that he really believed in what he was doing…that it was a good thing. Now, you are free to dispute that, but HE thought it was worth his life…and his parents obviously did to. And the Iraqi woman was obviously moved too…she cried several times when Bush was talking about her slain father, the Iraqi’s voting despite threats of violence, and cried again when she was hugging the mother of the slain soldier (did the mother give the Iraqi woman her son’s dog tags?). And, baby that I am, and staged that I knew it was, I cried too. Perhaps some of you are cynical enough to only see the staging…I’m not quite there yet myself. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/32 "2005-02-03T16:42:00Z")
I missed that! I wish I hadn’t. A good laugh would have done me good while watching. Any links to video out there? (not direct, of course…) ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/33 "2005-02-03T16:43:07Z")
Oops…I was resp. to **JM**. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/34 "2005-02-03T16:44:30Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Perhaps some of you are cynical enough to only see the staging… > > -XT That would be me… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/35 "2005-02-03T16:59:18Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > (and it DID make a stark contrast to the Dems booing…something that, afaik, doesn’t usually happen at SotU addresses, just from common curtisy). Republicans booed Clinton’s SOTU in 1995, and some of them even left before the end of the speech. It’s not always a genteel event. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/36 "2005-02-03T17:36:25Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Ought to scare anybody with the good sense God gave a goose. With **what** are we going to threaten Syria? Call up the Girl Scouts? :eek: Anyone got room in Canada for two Brownie Girl Scouts? I’ll sweeten the deal with cookies of your choice. > [@John Mace](#): > > I was watching Cheney during certain key parts of the speech. Did anyone else notice that while Bush was saying something like “I will reach out to the other side of the aisle on the issue of how best to reform Social Security…” that Cheney got this huge grin on his face and starting shaking his head? It might have been coincidental, but it sure looked like he just couldn’t contain his mirth. I was watching Cheney as well. Hastert had the nice poker face, but Cheney kept slipping in and out of his sly smile. The part that I noted the most was when Bush was speaking of his energy policy. Cheney got this grin on his face that made it look like the was either mentally counting the cash and favors that would come in from his energy connections or remembering what a joke most of the “plan” actually is. I loved the Ethanol reference. I’m suprised Cheney kept as straight a face as he did during that part. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/37 "2005-02-04T06:38:30Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Who was the Repub who appeared to be doing a crossword puzzle? Sen. John Warner. Did you see [Bush kiss Lieberman](http://bushspeaks.com/img/bush-kisses-lieberman.jpg)? I guess he was thanking him in advance for his vote/speech on Gonzales… BTW, is everyone aware of who that Iraqi woman is? Connected to an “interesting” crowd. About as typical an “Iraqi voter” as Chalabi… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/38 "2005-02-04T07:17:52Z")
There was a time I might have welcomed a bi-partisan gesture from GeeDubya. But that just plain creeped me out. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095/39 "2005-02-04T08:56:56Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > It was obvious from the soldiers letters home and from his parents that he really believed in what he was doing…that it was a good thing. Now, you are free to dispute that, but HE thought it was worth his life…and his parents obviously did to.-XT To fool oneself is the better part of soldiering. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-of-the-union/288095.md?page=1)