# State run TV and Big Brother **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 23, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649 "2003-12-23T14:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Herge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Herge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Herge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/1 "2003-12-23T14:45:15Z")
I get letters constantly threatening me with prosecution. I don’t have a TV licence because I don’t think the output from the BBC is worth paying for. I’m even more determined not to pay because of the constant stream of threatening letters they send me. I read this interesting article: [http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-12-13&id=3812&searchText=](http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-12-13&id=3812&searchText=) I was talking about this to someone, and they told me that people have been _jailed_ for not paying! Not just for a few days, but for a few months! Is this true? If I was in the same situation as the guy who wrote the article then I would do the same thing as he did. This kind of thing really pisses me off. If the G-men want to get into my house then they’ll have to go to a magistrate and get a search warrant. Bastards! ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/2 "2003-12-23T14:58:33Z")
Sorry for the hijack but how is it that they _know_ that you have a TV? do they perform surveilence on your house? Bubba ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/3 "2003-12-23T15:09:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BubbaDog \* > \*\*Sorry for the hijack but how is it that they _know_ that you have a TV? do they perform surveilence on your house? > \*\* Yeah, it seems that they do. It is hard for North Americans to understand, but Brits need a licence for their TV’s. I guess that it is really just another tax, but IIRC (and there have been threads about this in the past) there are vans that go around and can detect if there is a TV being used and then they check the address against a DB of people who have paid the licence fee. ---
**Author:** ![Herge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Herge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Herge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/4 "2003-12-23T15:14:26Z")
They claim that they have detection vans that can detect if you have a TV operating in your home, but this is widely regarded as mostly scaremongering. In reality, it is far more likely that they target people who simply don’t have a TV licence registered at an address. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/5 "2003-12-23T15:17:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > \*\*Yeah, it seems that they do. It is hard for North Americans to understand, but Brits need a licence for their TV’s. I guess that it is really just another tax, but IIRC (and there have been threads about this in the past) there are vans that go around and can detect if there is a TV being used and then they check the address against a DB of people who have paid the licence fee. \*\* AMAZING! There just _has_ to be a way to mask that. I see an underground market for shielding devices just waiting to explode. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/6 "2003-12-23T15:20:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BubbaDog \* > \*\*AMAZING! There just _has_ to be a way to mask that. I see an underground market for shielding devices just waiting to explode. \*\* Unlikely. It’s just as easy to visit any house that hasn’t registered a license on the chance that they are TV-watchers trying to dodge the fee. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/7 "2003-12-23T15:22:12Z")
**Herge** , I’d have more sympathy for your position if you didn’t watch BBC at all (or listen to the radio stations, use the news services, the website, etc.), but I’m guessing you probably do - correct me if I’m wrong. If a service is (in your opinion) substandard, but you continue to use it, does not exempt you from paying for it. Also, I believe people are jailed for contempt of court or non-payment of court-raised fines, not directly for non-payment of the license fee. I also agree, however, that the payment tactics are very heavy-handed; worse so than they are over here (where the state broadcaster really is worthless; the BBC is superb in comparison). ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/8 "2003-12-23T15:26:32Z")
Okay, the vans may be a story, but [this site](http://www.centreforcitizenship.org/tv.html) provides some eye opening details, and they say there is electronic monitoring. > [@](#): > > In the United Kingdom watching television, using a VCR capable of receiving TV signals or receiving an Internet broadcast is against the law unless you have a licence. The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) has search warrants issued and homes searched to see if there is a TV or video recorder in the house. > > Extraordinary as it may sound, the BBC’s licence enforcement agency monitors every home and workplace in Britain, stores selling TVs are required to file reports on purchasers and its private invesigators patrol the streets using electronic devices to locate those who are watching TV without a licence. If you do not have a TV or VCR an investigator visits to verify the fact. (Here’s a public admission of that from the head licence enforcer David Legge). The Royal Mail makes a report to the licensing agency when people move home. That does have rather an Orwellian feel to it. It does bring in about £2.6 billion a year. Governments generally don’t like to give up that kind of revenue, that is why Canada still has the GST. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/9 "2003-12-23T15:28:47Z")
Oh, great. Now our **TV’s** need tinfoil hats. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/10 "2003-12-23T15:35:25Z")
I own a car and live in Washington, DC. I hate having my car registered. The roads are shit here, and the city makes me go through these stupid safety inspections that are designed to point out things that I don’t really think have anything to do with safety – for example, my car would fail the safety inspection if my windshield wipers happened to be in poor condition. I already pay tons of taxes – DC has something like the second highest state income tax rates in the country, not to mention all the sales taxes and overzealous meter maids that hand out tickets like candy. Plus, there’s just the whole anti-freedom aspect of being compelled to have numbers displayed on one’s car, upon penalty of law. My grandfather fought the Nazis so that people wouldn’t have to be labeled like this. That guy in the Spectator column is clearly a hero. He was completely justified in taking out his anger with government policies on the stormtroopers at the local Dixons. The US and the UK are both countries of astounding wealth, and it is completely fascist to believe that citizens should pay for basic government services. How can we enjoy “freedom” if things are not “free?” ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/11 "2003-12-23T15:46:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > It does bring in about £2.6 billion a year. Governments generally don’t like to give up that kind of revenue, that is why Canada still has the GST. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the BBC’s funding, the government doesn’t see a penny of that money. The BBC and the government are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/12 "2003-12-23T15:50:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ravenman \* > The US and the UK are both countries of astounding wealth, and it is completely fascist to believe that citizens should pay for basic government services. Such as television? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/13 "2003-12-23T15:58:06Z")
Not being a European, I have some concern about this. Lemme get this straight: you are expected to pay a tax of some sort if you have a device in your home capable of receiving broadcast radio waves in some form or fashion? I can see a CABLE tax, but… a broadcast tax? That’s nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/14 "2003-12-23T16:03:19Z")
It’s not a pan-European thing. I don’t need a license for my TV: I _do_ need to pay for my cable package. Which gets more expensive per month. In their defense, they do scrap one channel per month as well, so it all evens out, or something. But no, the TV I can own without any repercusions, and should I hook it up to a satellite, I don’t pay any taxes on it at all (other than the VAT at purchase, of course). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/15 "2003-12-23T16:09:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ravenman \* > \*\*The US and the UK are both countries of astounding wealth, and it is completely fascist to believe that citizens should pay for basic government services. > > How can we enjoy “freedom” if things are not “free?” \*\* I’m having problems parsing this. The reason the UK and US governments are wealthy is down to taxation. Without taxation, they’d be shit-poor. If you want services that are free at the point of delivery, you can’t just pull their funding out of your ass - the money has to come from somewhere. **Herge** , just out of curiosity, is there a model for broadcasters that you might prefer? E.g. all broadcasters to be privately funded, a la the US. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/16 "2003-12-23T16:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*Whatever the rights or wrongs of the BBC’s funding, the government doesn’t see a penny of that money. The BBC and the government are not the same thing. \*\* Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t the BBC mandated by the British government? Didn’t the government have to make the licence fee a law? Doesn’t the fee support the BBC? Put another way, since we already know the BBC is a crown corporation (at least that would be the Canadian term) they would be funded by the government one way or another. The licence fee is the method that the government is using to pay for operating costs. Also, look at the cite that I provided: > [@](#): > > The licence, a form of poll tax, costs £116 a year in 2003 (an above inflation increase on 2002). The cost of collecting this tax on free speech was £146.4M a year, according to the Corporations’s 2003 annual report. That is to say that the first 1,262,207 licence fees collected paid not for the BBC’s TV channels or radio stations, but for income collection! £146M of taxpayers’ money wasted. The government might not get their hands on the cash, but the cash isn’t there without the government. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/17 "2003-12-23T16:29:31Z")
Have we practiced these same arguments 20, 30 or 40 times before . . . ? And yep, all you have to do is hit search and ‘BBC’. Lousy rant of an OP, trite subject. Merry Christams all! ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/18 "2003-12-23T16:32:40Z")
Is it per household or per television? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/19 "2003-12-23T16:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*Have we practiced these same arguments 20, 30 or 40 times before . . . ? > > And yep, all you have to do is hit search and ‘BBC’. > Lousy rant of an OP, trite subject. Merry Christams all! \*\* I hit search and type in BBC and this is what I got: > [@](#): > > The search term you specified (bbc) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer. > If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/20 "2003-12-23T16:47:17Z")
**Ravenman** : > [@](#): > > My grandfather fought the Nazis so that people wouldn’t have to be labeled like this. Did he fight them so that **cars** (and televisions) wouldn’t have to be labelled? Crucial difference, I believe. Re: TV license fees - in Canada we don’t pay the fee, instead we get commercials. Given the option, I think I’d rather pay the fee. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649.md?page=2)