# State run TV and Big Brother **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 23, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649 "2003-12-23T14:45:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/21 "2003-12-23T16:49:23Z")
I’m clueless on this issue. Are there commercials on the BBC? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/22 "2003-12-23T16:54:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > \*\*Have we practiced these same arguments 20, 30 or 40 times before . . . ? > > And yep, all you have to do is hit search and ‘BBC’. > Lousy rant of an OP, trite subject. Merry Christams all! \*\* I hit search and type in BBC and this is what I got: > [@](#): > > The search term you specified (bbc) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer. > If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific. ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/23 "2003-12-23T16:59:19Z")
> [@](#): > > In the United Kingdom watching television, using a VCR capable of receiving TV signals or receiving an Internet broadcast is against the law unless you have a licence. The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) has search warrants issued and homes searched to see if there is a TV or video recorder in the house. I don’t get it. Does this mean you have to pay a tax no matter what if you own a TV? What happens if I just want to own a TV to watch movies and not TV? Would I still get charged for it? That would piss me off, but not paying because you don’t like it sounds like you’re an ass. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/24 "2003-12-23T16:59:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by London\_Calling \* > Have we practiced these same arguments 20, 30 or 40 times before . . . ? > > And yep, all you have to do is hit search and ‘BBC’. I couldn’t agree more, but you can’t search on three letter keywords. They could try “television AND licence” though. **adam yax** : It doesn’t matter what role the government plays in raising the money, it isn’t theirs to spend as they choose, so it’s stupid to refer to it as government revenue or to argue that they would be reluctant to give it up. It’s the BBC that would be reluctant to give it up. It wouldn’t cost the government a penny if the BBC was funded a different way. ---
**Author:** ![Herge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Herge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Herge)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/25 "2003-12-23T17:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*I’m having problems parsing this. The reason the UK and US governments are wealthy is down to taxation. Without taxation, they’d be shit-poor. If you want services that are free at the point of delivery, you can’t just pull their funding out of your ass - the money has to come from somewhere. > > **Herge** , just out of curiosity, is there a model for broadcasters that you might prefer? E.g. all broadcasters to be privately funded, a la the US. \*\* Of course we need taxation, I agree tax is vital to the economy. I don’t always think that tax is spent wisely. I pay road tax, congestion charge tax, tax on fuel. If you buy a new car, you pay VAT. The police have installed speed cameras purely as a revenue raising exercise. God knows how many billions the goverment pulls in from these taxes, but I’m hard pushed to see any drastic improvments to our roads. Similarly, the licence fee is a tax, however it is not a tax on a vital service. The BBC have decided that their output is of a good enough quality that they can levy a tax on everybody who can receive its channels. I wouldn’t mind paying the licence fee if the output was higher quality. Also, I would be less reluctant to pay the fee if they did not employ heavy handed tactics in an attempt to scare people into paying. I would be happy for the BBC include commercials in their programmes, and do away with the licence fee altogether. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/26 "2003-12-23T17:12:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by presidebt \* > ]I’m clueless on this issue. Are there commercials on the BBC? A regular contributor to threads on this subject claims that they do have commercials (for their own products, programmes etc.), but they don’t have commercials for beer and detergent and stuff like other TV channels. The programmes are shown without interruptions. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/27 "2003-12-23T17:16:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Herge \* > I would be happy for the BBC include commercials in their programmes, and do away with the licence fee altogether. But since they don’t show commercials you’re getting the service for nothing. The people who _do_ pay the TV tax are paying your share for you. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/28 "2003-12-23T17:21:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Herge \* > I would be happy for the BBC include commercials in their programmes, and do away with the licence fee altogether. I don’t have a teevee and I’m sick and tired of paying for the commercial channels everytime I go to the supermarket. I don’t want to pay for somethinmg else I don’t want. The BBC License Fee comes from people who have teevee’s, that’s about right as far as I’m concerned - just like people who go to Uni paying some of their tuition fees in certain conditions. And not out of general taxation. But thanks, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/29 "2003-12-23T17:41:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\ ***adam yax** : It doesn’t matter what role the government plays in raising the money, it isn’t theirs to spend as they choose, so it’s stupid to refer to it as government revenue or to argue that they would be reluctant to give it up. It’s the BBC that would be reluctant to give it up. It wouldn’t cost the government a penny if the BBC was funded a different way. \*\* Of course it matters. Of course the BBC doesn’t want to lose the revenue, but if they don’t sell ads what other revenue do they have? Did the BBC write a law that says everyone with a TV needs to pay a licence fee? If they didn’t write the law, who did? I doubt it existed _a priori_. Could the government, if they choose, decide to repeal the licence fee? You still didn’t answer some of my questions. Is the BBC mandated by the government or not? Without the licence money, where would the BBC get its funding, keeping in mind that there is no ad revenue. Or are you telling me that the BBC isn’t run by the government and that it can survive without the licence fee and no other income streams? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/30 "2003-12-23T18:13:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by adam yax \* > Of course the BBC doesn’t want to lose the revenue, but if they don’t sell ads what other revenue do they have? Did the BBC write a law that says everyone with a TV needs to pay a licence fee? If they didn’t write the law, who did? I doubt it existed _a priori_. Could the government, if they choose, decide to repeal the licence fee? > > You still didn’t answer some of my questions. Is the BBC mandated by the government or not? Without the licence money, where would the BBC get its funding, keeping in mind that there is no ad revenue. > > Or are you telling me that the BBC isn’t run by the government and that it can survive without the licence fee and no other income streams? [This site](http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/) will tell you all you need to know about the relationship between the BBC and government, and how the Corporation is funded. Of course the government could repeal the licence fee, and it debates doing just that from time to time. Equally obviously, if that happened the BBC would have to be financed some other way, but to imply as you did earlier that the only possible method of funding is through some form of tax is incorrect (it could take advertising instead, or it could be funded by viewer subscription etc.). The BBC isn’t _run_ by the government, but it has always been _financed_ through the licence fee. Your own cite claimed that it currently _costs_ £146 million per year of tax to raise the licence fee, so if the fee was abolished that would be a saving to government, not a cost. How the BBC would be financed if not through the licence fee is a matter for debate, but it’s not like it would involve the abolition of gravity or something. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/31 "2003-12-23T18:53:41Z")
What’s “the Agincourt salute”? ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/32 "2003-12-23T19:09:56Z")
It’s a V sign made with two fingers, with the back of the hand facing forward. This side of the water it’s equivalent to giving someone the finger. I haven’t often heard it described by that phrase, but it supposedly derives from the [Battle of Agincourt](http://www.aginc.net/battle/) in 1415. The French had threatened to capture the English longbow men and cut off their bow fingers, but the English won the battle and the archers raised their fingers at the French in defiance. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/33 "2003-12-23T19:21:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Herge \* > \*\*They claim that they have detection vans that can detect if you have a TV operating in your home, but this is widely regarded as mostly scaremongering. In reality, it is far more likely that they target people who simply don’t have a TV licence registered at an address. \*\* Scaremongering? The equipment is a high-gain antenna similar to what is used for tracking “tagged” animals as far as I understand it? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/34 "2003-12-23T19:27:28Z")
**everton** , I think I understand where you are coming from, but let me ask you three more questions. 1. Why doesn’t the BBC start airing ads? That revenue added to the money from the licence fee, they would be making money hand-over fist, or I would assume they could make enough to offset the £146 million cost of raising the licence fee. 2. Is the BBC ‘allowed’ to make a profit, or are they accountable to somebody for any loses they incure? 3. Where do any profits go, or who foots the bill if there are loses? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/35 "2003-12-23T19:38:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Herge \* > \*\*Similarly, the licence fee is a tax, however it is not a tax on a vital service. The BBC have decided that their output is of a good enough quality that they can levy a tax on everybody who can receive its channels. I wouldn’t mind paying the licence fee if the output was higher quality. Also, I would be less reluctant to pay the fee if they did not employ heavy handed tactics in an attempt to scare people into paying. I would be happy for the BBC include commercials in their programmes, and do away with the licence fee altogether. \*\* All very well, but you still haven’t addressed **jjim** ’s point. Do you make a point of _never_ using any BBC services, which might somehow justify your refusal to pay your TV licence fee? Or you you watch and listen to the BBC, and just complain about it? If the former, then you at least have a moral, although not a legal, justification. But, given your apparent awareness of the quality of the BBC’s output, i suspect that the latter applies. If that’s the case, you need to stop whingeing. Personally, i think the licence fee is worth it just to get BBC news, even if you don’t watch anything else. I know people here in the US who have cable TV just so they can get BBC World Service. I know that people in the UK often complain about the Beeb, but try living with US commercial TV for a while and you’ll realise what a treasure your national broadcaster is. I’m originally from Australia, and the same applies to the ABC down there. As Joni Mitchell said, “You don’t know what you got 'til it’s gone.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/36 "2003-12-23T19:38:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BubbaDog \* > **Sorry for the hijack but how is it that they _know_ that you have a TV? do they perform surveilence on your house?** “We know you got one, we detected it!” –Mr. Bastard, the TV detector, on _The Young Ones_ (You could do like Vyvyan and **eat the telly**.) ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/37 "2003-12-23T19:58:26Z")
1. Policy. There are various reasons why, but to summarise, they’ve calculated that viewers appreciate not having programmes interrupted by ads. They are likely to feel that their reputation for independence would suffer if they were seen to be taking money from specific commercial sources. Ironically the BBC’s rivals don’t want it to take ads either, because overall TV ad revenues have been falling in real terms for a number of years. Spreading the jam even thinner would be in nobody’s interests. One suggestion for changes to television funding in the UK is that the commercial stations want some of the licence money instead of the BBC getting all of it. The BBC doesn’t spend that £146 million either, it’s the government that does that. 2 & 3. Yes, although there’s no surplus made from the licence itself. The BBC raises plenty of money through selling videos of its programmes and associated merchandising, and by selling its programmes abroad. It has a big publishing division too. All the money raised gets ploughed back into the business to offset the licence fee. It’s audited independently like any other big organisation, but as far as I know it’s never made a paper loss. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/38 "2003-12-23T22:16:10Z")
Dear OP of this mindless dull rant, I’m deeply sorry you feel “the output from the BBC is worth paying for”. Unfortunately that decision isn’t yours. Due to laws of the land, if you have a TV here, you pay your annual license. If you feel this is disagreeable, I suggest you start (or join) a campaign aimed at changing these laws. Unfortunately though the whole institution of the BBC is rather popular, and apparently most TV owners here are fairly happy with the situation. For example, we get to watch tv without adverts every 6 minutes. We get the Today program. We get nice things. So, I suspect you’re screwed. I respect and admire your principle of non-payment, and if you could advise us how the inevitable prosecution goes I’ll even send a cake when you get jailed. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/39 "2003-12-23T22:29:00Z")
It is a little like taking shoplifted goods to the Returns counter at M&S isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649/40 "2003-12-23T23:06:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gary Kumquat \* > We get nice things. Yep. Apart from the two terrestrial TV channels, we also get the digital channels, the local radio stations, the national radio stations and that huge fucking website they run. As you say, nice things. > [@](#): > > I’ll even send a cake when you get jailed. Just make sure you check [www.bbc.co.uk/food](http://www.bbc.co.uk/food) for the recipe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-run-tv-and-big-brother/220649.md?page=3)