# State Superintendent orders students to listen to hate speech **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 15, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296 "2024-11-15T18:35:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/61 "2024-11-19T19:13:00Z")
He is currently claiming that his Freedom Of Religion allows him to dictate what students are forced to view. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/62 "2024-11-19T19:18:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You are so full of right-wing shit. my thoughts on this have nothing to do with right or left wing. It’s a pure freedom of speech issue. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/63 "2024-11-19T19:24:40Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > of course! There is more than a whiff of demonstrative “don’t bother with me, just a humble guy giving praise to my lord and savior” attitude here. There is absolutely no doubt he wanted to be seen and noted. But the question is did he coerce others to join him. And I’ll admit that this is very contextual, but from what I have read it seems to me the answer is no. The fact that it happens at all is inherently coercive, regardless of the coach’s intentions, or even actions. Sure, we’ll take it as given that he never said to anyone, “Join my prayer meeting, or there will be consequences.” But say you have a kid who’s trying to make the starting team - being a starter would be a big deal for his college applications, maybe even a couple scholarships. You know the assistant coach does a prayer meeting at half time. He’s never _said_ you’re required to attend, but you also know he’s got a lot of pull over who gets assigned to a starter position. And there’s a class mate, who’s every bit as good as you are at football, who shows up for every prayer meeting, and he’s competing for the same spot. How certain can that student be that his non-attendance won’t affect his chances at getting that starting position? Sure, he doesn’t say, “Bobby doesn’t show up for prayer meetings,” but maybe he does say, “Bobby doesn’t show as much hustle as [kid who shows up to prayer meetings].” You can’t measure “hustle,” after all. Of course, maybe the assistant coach doesn’t do anything like that, but how can you be certain? Is it worth risking the scholarship? Better go to the prayer meeting anyway, just in case. And, of course, even if the assistant coach is scrupulous about not letting the prayer meeting thing influence his actions as assistant coach, can he be sure that his other students are doing the same thing? If the whole team is going in for that big public prayer meeting, and one kid is standing back because his religious beliefs aren’t compatible with a big public prayer session, are those kids guaranteed to not let that affect how they treat their team mate? It’s an absolutely terrible decisions, that should be revolting to anyone who believes in the importance of freedom of conscience. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/64 "2024-11-19T19:25:26Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > but from what I have read it seems to me the answer is no That’s because you have the crappiest information sources. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/65 "2024-11-19T19:30:23Z")
Like maybe the accused defense team and right-wing supporters? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/66 "2024-11-19T19:34:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s an absolutely terrible decisions, that should be revolting to anyone who believes in the importance of freedom of conscience. Agreed, although I think you may be giving them credit for more thought than is due~with them it’s: “it is alright when _my_ side does it”. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/67 "2024-11-19T19:45:42Z")
This is exactly correct. If a coach went to the 50 yard line after a game to do a satanic prayer or some witchcraft ritual with the team, I think the reaction from that side would be a bit … different. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/68 "2024-11-19T19:47:39Z")
One might say he’s trying to……inoculate them? ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/69 "2024-11-19T20:12:07Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > That’s because you have the crappiest information sources. Maybe! What sources did you use to inform your opinion on this matter? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/70 "2024-11-19T20:14:33Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Now watch the Superintendent say “yeah but I respond to a Higher Authority”. If Hindu gods can be blue a MAGA god can be orange. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/71 "2024-11-19T20:32:38Z")
I’m thinking he did it solely to show up on Trump’s radar as the choice for Sec’y of Education. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/72 "2024-11-19T20:43:32Z")
What is all of this concern over one guy praying quietly by himself on a field, and kids deciding on their own to join him? Oh wait, that isn’t all that happened. > **[After Supreme Court backs praying coach, no sweeping changes](https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-court-sports-football-religion-5aabe9034cc4d98f85c6fddf9fb205c7)** > > When the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of a high school football coach’s right to pray on the field after games, there were predictions of dramatic consequences from across the ideological spectrum. > Kennedy [began coaching at Bremerton High](https://apnews.com/article/us-supreme-court-sports-business-religion-donald-trump-d5817d75d8b3ae436ee2b66eed5ca7dc) near Seattle in 2008. [He initially prayed alone on the 50-yard line](https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-coach-prayer-2981a8073ea82a1a688c367270c941aa) at the end of games. Students started joining him, and over time he began delivering short, inspirational talks with religious references. Kennedy did that for years and also led students in locker room prayers. When the school district learned what he was doing in 2015, it asked him to stop out of concerns of a possible lawsuit over students’ religious freedom rights. > > Kennedy stopped leading prayers in the locker room and on the field, but wanted to continue kneeling and praying on the field after games. The school asked him not to do so while still “on duty” as a coach. When he continued, it put him on paid leave. The head coach of the varsity team later recommended he not be rehired because, among other things, he failed to follow district policy. So if you look at the whole thing in context, while the issue that went before SCOTUS was solely about his desire to kneel on the field, that **isn’t** all that he did. He led kids in prayer and gave religious speeches. He did agree to stop doing those things when asked to stop, but the idea that people initially only joined with him because of his quiet example is not true. Any consideration of “coercion” has to factor in the idea of being on a team where a coach is verbally initiating religious speech onto students in a confined environment. While the initial students that joined him in prayer on the field may or may not have felt coerced, when he felt empowered to actually initiate proselytizing in the locker room, that seems to me when he stepped over the line. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/73 "2024-11-19T21:10:37Z")
Just read the NY Times or Washington Post, or listen to NPR. If you want business news, read the WSJ. Stay away from the op-ed pages if you don’t like their slant and you’ll get all the news that really matters. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/74 "2024-11-20T19:06:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I’m thinking he did it solely to show up on Trump’s radar as the choice for Sec’y of Education. Too late. Linda McMahon has already been nominated. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/75 "2024-11-20T19:38:23Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I did the pledge every day from K-12 and thought nothing of it because everyone did it and it was normal. > > It wasn’t until many years later it occurred to me how fucking _weird_ it is. Especially given the fact that a _pledge_ is something that can only be done _once_ (in the absence of an incident in which one renounces one’s pledge. Then the pledge can be legitimately readministered. Of course, it would be judicious for an observer to be skeptical of such behavior). > [@DaveUnknown](#): > > He’s been pushing this stuff for months if not years just to set up a constitutional/supreme court challenge, of which we know the likely outcome. We _used_ to know. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > _Have_ to? > Don’t you mean get to? Emperor Trump doesn’t want the involvement of anybody that doesn’t have the last name of Trump and the first name of Donald. And no Juniors! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/76 "2024-11-20T19:51:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The law has long recognized, and justly so, that there’s an inherent power imbalance between teachers (including coaches) and students. If a teacher tells a student “Well, I can’t strictly speaking require you to pray with me, but everyone is doing it”, students will hear that as “You’d better pray with me if you know what’s good for you”. What would I advise my kid to do? Especially since I see football as a cancer on society. > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Again, unless you’re being intentionally obtuse, it’s not hard to figure that a part-time assistant coach exerts considerably less authority over a team’s players than, e.g., the head coach. But not _zero_ [perceived] authority. > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > There is more than a whiff of demonstrative “don’t bother with me, just a humble guy giving praise to my **lord** and savior” attitude here. This is America. We don’t have lords. It’s in the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/77 "2024-11-20T21:35:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > This is America. We don’t have lords. It’s in the constitution. We have plenty of Jesters though. Professional fools. Though I question the professional part. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/78 "2024-11-20T21:49:11Z")
Has the Republican war on religion really gone so far that people have forgotten what prayer is? Prayer is talking to God. It’s done in one’s own thoughts. The only two people who can know that someone’s praying are the person themself and God. If people could tell what this coach was doing, what he was doing wasn’t prayer. And his one and only purpose for doing what he did was to get people to join him. And since some of the people he was getting to join him were under his authority, that was coercive. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/79 "2024-11-20T22:13:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If people could tell what this coach was doing, what he was doing wasn’t prayer. That’s absolutely not part of any standard definition of “prayer.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296/80 "2024-11-20T22:16:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s absolutely not part of any standard definition of “prayer.” “But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” -Matthew 6:6 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-superintendent-orders-students-to-listen-to-hate-speech/1010296.md?page=5)