# State vs. Commonwealth **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061 "2022-01-19T15:51:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/1 "2022-01-19T15:51:49Z")
What is the difference and why are there 2 different things? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/2 "2022-01-19T15:59:17Z")
No difference functionally. > **[What's the difference between a commonwealth and a state?](https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/whats-the-difference-between-a-commonwealth-and-a-state)** > > Are Kentucky, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Virginia all that different from the rest? > So why are they called commonwealths? Well, their constitutions simply deem them such. According to [one commonwealth’s web site](http://www.mass.gov/anf/research-and-tech/legal-and-legislative-resources/why-is-massachusetts-a-commonwealth.html) (Massachusetts—the one in which Merriam-Webster is headquartered), the term _commonwealth_ was preferred by a number of political writers in the years leading up to 1780, when the Massachusetts constitution officially designated the state as such; the preference is believed to have existed perhaps because there was “some anti-monarchial sentiment in using the word _commonwealth_ .” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/3 "2022-01-19T17:23:39Z")
As the song goes, “People just liked it better that way”. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/4 "2022-01-19T17:23:57Z")
What about “county” and “parish”? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/5 "2022-01-19T17:26:39Z")
[Again, no difference](https://vermilion.org/did-you-know/why-louisiana-only-state-have-parishes-and-not-counties). > Louisiana was officially Roman Catholic under both France and Spain’s rule. The boundaries dividing the territories generally coincided with church parishes. In 1807, the territorial legislature officially adopted the ecclesiastical term. Through each change in her history, Louisiana never deviated and the primary civil divisions have been officially known as parishes ever since. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/6 "2022-01-19T17:31:55Z")
Interesting. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/7 "2022-01-19T17:36:33Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > What about “county” and “parish”? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Again, no difference](https://vermilion.org/did-you-know/why-louisiana-only-state-have-parishes-and-not-counties). Add in _boroughs_, the terminology that Alaska employs. All are names for the same basic governmental subdivision. ---
**Author:** ![Topologist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/topologist/32/3208_2.png) [@Topologist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Topologist)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/8 "2022-01-19T18:43:14Z")
Then there’s New York. The state is divided into counties, but New York City is divided into [five boroughs](https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02877), which coincide with five state counties. Two of them use the same borough name as county name, but the other three don’t. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/9 "2022-01-19T19:01:32Z")
There was an old episode of _Law & Order_ when Ben Stone offered a criminal full immunity for any crimes committed in “New York County.” The guy took the deal and spilled his guts, and then Stone busted him. Turns out New York County is Manhattan, but all his crimes happened in Brooklyn (which is Kings County). Gotcha, sucker! Always familiarize yourself with New York City political divisions before murdering someone. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/10 "2022-01-19T19:59:44Z")
As someone who lives within a state within the Commonwealth of Australia, itself part of the [former British Empire-based] Commonwealth of Nations, I can assure you that ‘commonwealth’ is a flexible term that means what you want it to mean. I also live in a parish and a county, which are specific and different things, created for different purposes. There are relatively few names for land and political divisions, and they evolved for specific purposes that often no longer exist. When your or my newly stolen land was occupied those terms were applied to a whole newly created structure of land management that only has the vaguest connection back to their original meaning or use. And yet, somehow, life goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/11 "2022-01-19T20:35:17Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > No difference functionally. As for the 4 commonwealth/states sure [Virginia, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Massachusetts]. But what about the Commonwealths of Puerto Rico and Northern Mariana Islands and (while we still owned it) the Commonwealth of the Philippines? I know the US government doesn’t hold any legal distinction to the use of “commonwealth” but those are certainly not states. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/12 "2022-01-19T22:25:27Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Louisiana was officially Roman Catholic under both France and Spain’s rule. The boundaries dividing the territories generally coincided with church parishes. You’d have to have an awfully sparse Catholic population to have only one church-parish per county, and some of those parishioners would be going a long way for Mass. There are probably a hundred or so church-parishes in my county. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/13 "2022-01-19T23:05:24Z")
Here’s a little more information about [parish history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parishes_in_Louisiana). > Following the Louisiana Purchase in 1803, the territorial legislative council divided the Territory of Orleans (the predecessor of Louisiana state) into 12 counties. The borders of these counties were poorly defined, but they roughly coincided with the colonial parishes, and hence used the same names. > > On March 31, 1807, the territorial legislature created 19 parishes without abolishing the old counties (which term continued to exist until 1845). In 1811, a constitutional convention was held to prepare for Louisiana’s admission into the Union. This organized the state into seven judicial districts, each consisting of groups of parishes. In 1816, the first official map of the state used the term parish, as did the 1845 constitution. Since then, the official term for Louisiana’s primary civil divisions has been parishes. > > The 19 original parishes were joined by Catahoula Parish in 1808. In 1810 four additional parishes were created from the formerly Spanish West Florida territory- these are part of what is now referred to as the Florida Parishes. > > By April 1812, Attakapas Parish became St. Martin Parish and St. Mary Parish. On April 30, the state was admitted to the Union with 25 parishes. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/14 "2022-01-19T23:13:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You’d have to have an awfully sparse Catholic population to have only one church-parish per county, and some of those parishioners would be going a long way for Mass. They were sparsely populated. Much more so than the English colonies at the same time. It wasn’t until the Cajuns came in in the 1760s that Louisiana got decent European population, especially outside New Orleans. > [@](#): > > There are probably a hundred or so church-parishes in my county. Comparing 17th century population levels with 21st century ones is your basic apples and oranges thing. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/15 "2022-01-20T00:34:07Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > What about “county” and “parish”? > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > [Again, no difference](https://vermilion.org/did-you-know/why-louisiana-only-state-have-parishes-and-not-counties). > > > Louisiana was officially Roman Catholic under both France and Spain’s rule. The boundaries dividing the territories generally coincided with church parishes. In 1807, the territorial legislature officially adopted the ecclesiastical term. Through each change in her history, Louisiana never deviated and the primary civil divisions have been officially known as parishes ever since. [It can go the other way, too](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_(LDS_Church)#Historical_origin), with the Latter-day Saint congregations being called wards after the political ward. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/16 "2022-01-20T01:43:40Z")
According to Google: > There are just over 17,000 parishes in the U.S. The total U.S. population is about 327 million. So, the average Catholic parish has **between 4000–4500 members** , serving on average a community of a little over 19,000 people. There were 25 parishes when Louisiana became a state and an 1810 population of about 75,000, so 3,000 people per parish. That’s of course skewed by New Orleans, which had a population of 17,000, but the rest of the state still averaged about 2,500 per parish. Seems a reasonable number to me. Protestant churches could be established in any small town, since ministers were often self-taught and self-appointed in that era. But the Catholic Church was more strict about priests and had a hierarchical structure that limited the number of churches in an area. Louisiana today has 104 Catholic parishes and a population of 4.6 million, so about 46,000 per parish. ---
**Author:** ![RayMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e495f1/32.png) [@RayMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RayMan)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/17 "2022-01-20T04:36:32Z")
Check this out! > **[Why is Virginia (and MA and PA and KY) called a commonwealth?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341960/why-is-virginia-and-ma-and-pa-and-ky-called-a-commonwealth)** ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2022, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/18 "2022-01-20T06:28:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > As for the 4 commonwealth/states sure [Virginia, Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Massachusetts]. > But what about the Commonwealths of Puerto Rico and Northern Mariana Islands and (while we still owned it) the Commonwealth of the Philippines? I know the US government doesn’t hold any legal distinction to the use of “commonwealth” but those are certainly not states. It’s a totally meaningless decorative term there too. Puerto Rico and the Northern Mariana Islands are both organized unincorporated territories. There isn’t a special commonwealth status that sets them apart from the US Virgin Islands and Guam. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/19 "2022-01-23T02:03:18Z")
I wonder what that number is when one accounts for the Episcopalian and other denominations that used the term parish also. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061/20 "2022-01-23T03:16:12Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There were 25 parishes when Louisiana became a state and an 1810 population of about 75,000, so 3,000 people per parish. That’s of course skewed by New Orleans, which had a population of 17,000, but the rest of the state still averaged about 2,500 per parish. At the time each of those parishes were founded, which was years before Louisiana was acquired by the US, they were virtually certain to have had a much smaller population. Probably a few hundred at most and that concentrated along the river. The first counties in Louisiana had boundaries about the same as those of the parishes, so Louisianans kept refering to them informally as parishes. After a while, that became official. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-vs-commonwealth/958061.md?page=2)