# State your religion, please. Here's your ticket. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818 "2006-04-30T06:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/21 "2006-04-30T17:04:48Z")
> [@The Flying Dutchman](#): > > I’ve read various threads on this issue, including comparisons to the non acceptance of the Nation of Islam by other Muslims to the point where they are even banned form Saudi Arabia, and it puzzles me that the general consensus by most dopers is that the Nation of Islam is not entitled to call themselves Muslims while Mormans are entitled to be labelled as Christians. The NOI has no connection at all with Islamic theology or practice. They don’t follow the pillars, they have a different prophet, and they have a completely different set of creation and afterlife beliefs. They are not permitted into Mecca because they don’t fit any of the criteria which would define them as Muslim. LDS, on the other hand, fits _every_ criterion which would define them as Christian (salvation through Jesus Christ, the Son of God, etc.) LDS is not comparable to NOI. A better analogy would be something like the white supremacist “Christian Identity” movement which has its own bizarre race mythos entirely off the reservation from anything that could be considered core Christian theology, and in that way, entirely comparable to NOI. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/22 "2006-04-30T17:05:56Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] If they didn’t say anything about religion to people buying tickets, it wouldn’t have surprised me if they got complaints from some non-Mormon Christians that they didn’t expect to see what they consider heresy. “Why didn’t you warn us!” they would whine. They were probably trying to avoid that type of situation, and kinda fumbled at it. [/QUOTE] I’d bet this was the theater’s main motivation. That they felt they had to take it upon themselves to protect their customers from potentially being exposed to points of view they don’t already hold is pretty damn sad to me. I’d be curious to know if people would have in fact complained about not being warned if the theatre had simply sold tickets and said nothing (which doesn’t make it any less sad, although the target for my head-shaking might shift). ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/23 "2006-04-30T17:12:46Z")
[QUOTE=JustAnotherGeek] Ha! Never ceases to amaze me how rude people are. Why the religion of the ticket purchaser is relevant to the sale of ticket is beyond me. But, this gave me a great idea for a new response to these types of questions: **Busy-Body Ticket Salesman:** State your religion, please. **Pissed-Off Customer:** Noydban of Saint Foo. **BBTS:** 😕 **POC:** It’s an acronym. Why do you ask? **BBTS:** We want to make sure that blahblahblah. What is your religion? **POC:** None Of Your Damn Business, Asshole, Now Shut The Fuck Up. Please give me my tickets and have a nice day. [/QUOTE] Re: the Ticket Seller Perhaps the ticket seller beleiving that Mormons have a different view of Christ than many other Christian churches, wanted to let people know what they were buying a ticket for. I personally think that “The Passion of Christ” should have had warnings. I know people who took children thinking it would be a sunday school lesson type movie and then complained about the brutality of the movie. Re: Christian -vs- Mormon The LDS beliefs are fundamentally different as to who Jesus and God are. If you disagree on who and what God is, you cant agree on who and what the Son of God is. Re: Mormons are nice people I have known really nice people of the LDS faith, of the Baptist faith, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan and shoot I have even know some folks who claimed to be Satan worshippers who were basically nice folks who took care of their families. They thought Satan got a raw deal and was misunderstood by the writers of the Bible. Re: Mormons as Polygamist The reason the church discarded the doctrine is it was a condition for Utah to become a state. Not because the Mormons thought it over and decided polygamy was doctrinely a bad idea. [EMAIL=[http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah\_chapters/statehood\_and\_the\_progressive\_era/partypoliticsandutahstatehood.html](http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/statehood_and_the_progressive_era/partypoliticsandutahstatehood.html)]link ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/24 "2006-04-30T17:34:30Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Please be so kind as to explain this. I can see no Earthly reason whatsoever that a patron be asked his religion before entering a theater. [/QUOTE] I agree. I can only see this as a misguided attempt by the theater employees to protect the sensibilities of theatergoing members of non-LDS sects, whom, they may have feared, might become offended upon discovering that the Christian movie that they went to view wasn’t about their own particular brand of Christianity. I further see it as an over-reaction to the “family values” and “culture wars” memes. They were essentially informing patrons, “This movie portrays Mormonism is a positive light. If you’re going to be offended by that, leave now. Don’t later claim that you were misled into seeing this movie.” Unfortunately, they attempted to direct this message only to those who were, I suppose, the target of their concern. Perhaps it would have been better if they had passed this message to all patrons, regardless of their religious beliefs. Personally, I’d still it offensive that they perceive that such a message is necessary. But that, I suppose, goes to the heart of the whole culture wars thing – I don’t think it ought to be necessary to warn people that their beliefs may be challenged by what they are about to see. Others may, and do, disagree, and from that disagreement stems the motivation for what you see here. Or so I speculate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/25 "2006-04-30T17:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=adhemar] Re: the Ticket Seller Perhaps the ticket seller beleiving that Mormons have a different view of Christ than many other Christian churches, wanted to let people know what they were buying a ticket for. [/quote] It’s not the ticket seller’s job to worry about the ticket buyers belief system. The ticket seller’s job is to sell me a ticket. If I have any questions, I’ll ask. Other than that, they can shut the fuck up. I don’t need to hear their ignorant commentaries. > [@](#): > > The LDS beliefs are fundamentally different as to who Jesus and God are. If you disagree on who and what God is, you cant agree on who and what the Son of God is. This is patently untrue. LDS beliefs regarding Jesus are exactly the same as other Christian denominations. > [@](#): > > Re: Mormons are nice people > I have known really nice people of the LDS faith, of the Baptist faith, Catholics, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan and shoot I have even know some folks who claimed to be Satan worshippers who were basically nice folks who took care of their families. They thought Satan got a raw deal and was misunderstood by the writers of the Bible. The relevance of this paragraph is what? Some satanists are nice people, therefore it’s ok to ask inapprpropriate questions out of a cinema box office and offer unsolicited (and inaccurate) warnings about the religious content of the move? > [@](#): > > Re: Mormons as Polygamist > The reason the church discarded the doctrine is it was a condition for Utah to become a state. Not because the Mormons thought it over and decided polygamy was doctrinely a bad idea. [EMAIL=[http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah\_chapters/statehood\_and\_the\_progressive\_era/partypoliticsandutahstatehood.html](http://historytogo.utah.gov/utah_chapters/statehood_and_the_progressive_era/partypoliticsandutahstatehood.html)]link Again – relevance? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/26 "2006-04-30T18:10:47Z")
I read the article, and it seemed to have a back-story that it assumed people already knew about. What is this movie about, and why woudl the ticket-sellers ask about the customer’s religion? I just am not understanding what went on? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/27 "2006-04-30T18:55:41Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > What is this movie about, and why woudl the ticket-sellers ask about the customer’s religion? The [movie _States of Grace_ is about](http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808756279/info) Mormon missionaries in Los Angeles. As **Giraffe** and **Kyrie** and others have suggested, the non-Mormon ticket-sellers were probably assuming that some non-Mormon moviegoers were assuming that the film would be about non-Mormon Christians. Personally, if I were one of those non-Mormon moviegoers, I’d be a bit offended by the ticket clerk’s implication that I was dumb enough to shell out 9–12 bucks for movie theater admission **without even knowing what the fucking movie was about**. But I guess some moviegoers actually are that dumb, and the ticket clerks were probably picturing an exodus of indignant customers ten minutes into the movie, all demanding their money back. Either that, or they were trying to “protect” their fellow non-Mormon Christians from being exposed to any potential Mormon influences even in a fictional portrayal. Which, IMHO, would make them self-righteous, interfering assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/28 "2006-04-30T19:04:18Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] No, I think that there are different levels of bull. Scientology is at the top, and Mormonism is a close second. [/QUOTE] Really? Pray tell how is Catholism, for example, any less bullshit than Mormonism? Do Catholic bulls eat mint leaves so their bull have a minty-fresh smell? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/29 "2006-04-30T19:04:41Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] What I also find interesting from the perspective of my Christian upbringing is a major similarity between Muslims and Mormans. Both groups were spawned from Christianity by revered prophets and subsequent texts. Both groups accept Jesus though perhaps not exactly the same way. For most Christians who elevate Jesus Christ and the New Testament above all others, the divine neccessity of a subsequent prophet for mankind is contradicted by the core belief in the completion of Christ’s earthly mandate and the canon. I can understand why many Christians have difficulty in accepting Mormanism as a Christian faith any more than accepting Islam as a Christian faith. [/QUOTE] No offense, but you’re indicating some major ignorance about the topic. For one, the idea that Islam was spawned from Christianity is ridiculous; prior to Islam, Arabs were certainly not Christian - they were polytheist. And while Christianity and Judaism were both present in the region, the Qur’an was a separate revelation entirely. And while Muslims hold the Torah (and perhaps the other Hebrew scriptures - I’m not certain) to be somewhat sacred, they don’t consider Christian scripture to be sacred at all. But Islam was not directly spawned from either Judaism or Christianity in the way that, say, Mormonism developed from Christianity, or that Christianity developed from Judaism. Mormons still consider the Christian scriptures sacred; most of the new Mormons had been Christians previously; Mormons consider themselves Christian. None of those things are true of Islam. It’s a terrible analogy. [QUOTE=Revtim] They were probably trying to avoid that type of situation, and kinda fumbled at it. Maybe they should have put up a sign indicating it was a Mormon-themed movie. Yeah, it’s still pretty dumb, but nowhere near as dumb as what they did. [/QUOTE] If they were trying to make sure people knew what the movie was about, they were already _way_ overstepping. You seem to be trying to explain away some of their actions but the idea of a movie theater taking it upon itself to warn the audience about a movie is already ridiculous. I suppose next a theater will try to make sure people know _Brokeback Mountain_ is a gay movie before they see it. > [@adhemar](#): > > Re: Christian -vs- Mormon > The LDS beliefs are fundamentally different as to who Jesus and God are. If you disagree on who and what God is, you cant agree on who and what the Son of God is. :rolleyes: Please. [QUOTE=Contrapuntal] It seems to me that teaching that God is (or was) a flesh and blood creature would be enough to make most Christians consider Mormonism to be out of the fold altogether. Is not Christianity essentially based on the concept of God as the immortal, all powerful creator? How can one reconcile this with the concept of God as once human? [/QUOTE] It’s certainly an unusual belief - that’s why I mentioned it. It’s one of the particularly odd beliefs that Mormons hold, when compared with other Christian beliefs. But your question is a definitional one - how do you define “Christianity”? The nature of God is important, but I would argue that it’s not central the way Jesus, His sacrifice, and His resurrection are. The concept of salvation through the Christ is the central tenet of Christianity, not what God was doing back before the creation. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/30 "2006-04-30T19:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] And while Muslims hold the Torah (and perhaps the other Hebrew scriptures - I’m not certain) to be somewhat sacred, they don’t consider Christian scripture to be sacred at all. [/QUOTE] I had thought that Islam considers Jesus to be a minor prophet, and also that it considers both Jews and Christians to be “People of the Book”. Am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/31 "2006-04-30T19:19:18Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I had thought that Islam considers Jesus to be a minor prophet, and also that it considers both Jews and Christians to be “People of the Book”. Am I wrong? [/QUOTE] Yes, except I’d delete “minor” from that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/32 "2006-04-30T19:20:21Z")
**Frank** : That’s a “yes” to your first sentence. I should’ve added “no” as my answer to your second sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/33 "2006-04-30T19:31:22Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I had thought that Islam considers Jesus to be a minor prophet, and also that it considers both Jews and Christians to be “People of the Book”. Am I wrong? [/QUOTE] Jesus is quite an important figure in Islam, but that doesn’t mean they consider the New Testament to be sacred. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/34 "2006-04-30T19:45:18Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] Jesus is quite an important figure in Islam, but that doesn’t mean they consider the New Testament to be sacred. [/QUOTE] Not sacred exactly, no ( well kinda, sorta - holy without being sacred as it were, due to its supposed flaws ). But they do accept those parts of the New Testament not directly contradicted by the Qur’an. Some Muslims when speaking ecumenically will refer to the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Final Testament ( i.e. Qur’an ). - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/35 "2006-04-30T19:55:34Z")
FWIW - I spent a summer in Idaho Falls - a town which is 30% Mormon, 30% Evangenical Christian and 30% everything else. It was very much like what living in Northern Ireland must be like. The amount of resentment and ill will between the Mormons and Bible thumping Christians was huge. At the time I had a 0, 2, and 5 year old. So, when I went to the store, I looked like a good Mormon woman. Many of the folks would smile at me in a knowing way, the others scowl and look angry. I “won” a free manicure and the person who did my nails told me that she had 4 kids, “but not for the reason you think.” The reason I was supposed to think was because she was a Mormon. She wanted to make it VERY clear that she wasn’t one of those. About the first thing I’d be asked (either directly or obliquely) was whether or not I was Mormon. When I said I wasn’t folks that were not Mormon would go on about how they are a sect not really Christian, etc. etc. Many would read the home town of products they were planning to buy. If the address was in Utah, they’d assume it was a Mormon-owned company and buy another brand. I had several parents tell me that they home schooled because they were not Mormon. Their perception was that Mormon’s controlled all the schools. They were run as basically Mormon parachial schools, and non-Mormon kids were descriminated against. So - for something like the OP described to happen in a place like Idaho Falls would be fairly typical. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/36 "2006-04-30T19:59:14Z")
[QUOTE=Aeschines] Mormonism is total bullshit. I can understand why the ticket people were warning people. [/QUOTE] It’s no more bullshit than claiming to see fairies. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/37 "2006-04-30T20:11:25Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] **Frank** : That’s a “yes” to your first sentence. I should’ve added “no” as my answer to your second sentence. [/QUOTE] I was wondering about that. 🙂 Thank you, **Excalibre** , and **Tamerlane**. Looks like I was only partly wrong. Better than average. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/38 "2006-04-30T20:42:52Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] It’s no more bullshit than claiming to see fairies. [/QUOTE] I did see fairies! I did! They had diaphanous wings, and shiny wands, and silver tiaras. They gave me tiramisu and a little rainbow flag and told me that my necklace was fabulous. Then they left, saying that Xanadu started at 7 and they did not want to be late. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/39 "2006-04-30T21:50:46Z")
[QUOTE=JustAnotherGeek] **Busy-Body Ticket Salesman:** State your religion, please. **Pissed-Off Customer:** Noydban of Saint Foo. [/QUOTE] OK, now I know what I’m going to answer in the future when someone asks me that. I won’t even deign to explain it … ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/40 "2006-04-30T22:03:24Z")
> [@Long Time First Time](#): > > It was very much like what living in Northern Ireland must be like. The amount of resentment and ill will between the Mormons and Bible thumping Christians was huge. [hijack] So when did this whole “Mormons aren’t Christians” idea, and mutual resentment between Mormons and some non-Mormon Christian sects, hit the cultural big time? Seems to me that I don’t remember such nation-wide awareness of evangelical/fundamentalist anti-Mormonism (except for hostility towards Mormon polygamy) going on, say, twenty years ago. Has this been a constant phenomenon that just slipped under my radar till relatively recently, or is it part of the recent growth of conservative/fundamentalist Christian sects? [/hijack] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818.md?page=3)