# State your religion, please. Here's your ticket. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 30, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818 "2006-04-30T06:36:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/41 "2006-04-30T22:22:52Z")
**Long Time First Time** , when did that take place? Was that fairly recent? It’d be interesting if people who’ve lived in heavily Mormon areas for a long time could say whether that sort of antagonism existed before recently. [QUOTE=Kimstu] [hijack] So when did this whole “Mormons aren’t Christians” idea, and mutual resentment between Mormons and some non-Mormon Christian sects, hit the cultural big time? Seems to me that I don’t remember such nation-wide awareness of evangelical/fundamentalist anti-Mormonism (except for hostility towards Mormon polygamy) going on, say, twenty years ago. Has this been a constant phenomenon that just slipped under my radar till relatively recently, or is it part of the recent growth of conservative/fundamentalist Christian sects? [/hijack] [/QUOTE] My WAG would be that it’s a little of both. Mormons were never popular with other Christians - according to things I’ve read, that was a big part in their moving repeatedly westward (leading to the largest Mormon church establishing itself in Utah.) But I think the rise in very politically-oriented Fundamentalism has to be imagined as playing a role in this sort of thing - certainly, Fundamentalist Christians are being heavily pushed nowadays to assert themselves and it’s probably leading some simmering resentments to surface. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/42 "2006-04-30T22:25:44Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] [hijack] Has this been a constant phenomenon that just slipped under my radar till relatively recently, or is it part of the recent growth of conservative/fundamentalist Christian sects? [/hijack] [/QUOTE] In my experience, I’d have to say it slipped under your radar. When I was young, my family slipped through many protestant denominations, and while all of them grudgingly acknowledged that most of the others were generally “Christian”, although mistaken in some particulars, they uniformly delegated Mormonism to a cult-like status. That was about twenty years ago, and my experience ranges from fundamentalist Baptist churches to non-denominational pentecostal ones. I will make no defense in their behalf. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/43 "2006-04-30T22:50:27Z")
My experience is like that of **Kyrie Eleison** , except that all Christians I knew in church and youth groups–growing up in Reno, NV–unequivocally regarded Mormonism as a cult. I’m not going to make a defense on their behalf, either. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/44 "2006-04-30T23:13:42Z")
[QUOTE=Kyrie Eleison] … they uniformly delegated Mormonism … [/QUOTE] Bah, “delegated”=“relegated”. I’ll not correct my earlier typos and elisions, but this one nags for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/45 "2006-04-30T23:18:35Z")
wring: Thanks for the information regarding the key to whether or not it’s a civil rights violation. I’m aware that businesses cannot discriminate on the basis of religion and a few other things. So, it seemed to me that merely asking the customer’s religion was discriminatory. I now see that it’s not discriminatory; it’s merely irrelevant and ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/46 "2006-04-30T23:19:32Z")
Sounds like the theater handled things pretty poorly, but I guess I can understand why somebody would try that. It would suck to get complaints from people who don’t like Mormonism … but why would anybody go to a religious movie without checking to see _what_ religion it was about? I was raised LDS, and it just blew my mind that anybody could claim we weren’t Christian. Now, though, I think I’ve figured out that it’s essentially an issue of semantics. When Mormons say they are Christian, they’re using “Christian” to mean “believe Christ is the savior of mankind and the son of God, and in traditional Christian values.” When Catholics or Protestants or other folk who are usually designated “Christians” say Mormons are _not_ Christians, they’re using “Christian” to mean “believe Christ is the savior of mankind and the son of God, and in traditional Christian values, _in accordance with the doctrinal traditions that people known as Christians have had for the past couple thousand years_,” which includes things like the non-corporeality and infinitude of God, the lack of any other deities, etc. In the early years of Mormonism, the leaders actually seemed quite proud of the fact that they _weren’t_ exactly Christian in the traditional sense, because “Christianity” was really a counterfeit gospel that had totally perverted the true gospel of Jesus. In fact, they were the _only_ real Christians, and they would be victorious over the apostate Christians. Obviously, that didn’t happen, so I think now there’s a much greater emphasis on presenting Mormonism as … as something not incompatible with or a replacement for traditional Christianity, but simply a more complete version of Christianity. They used to emphasize the differences, and now they emphasize the similarities. I think the whole thing is just silly, but it clearly has real-world ramifications for the ability of Mormon missionaries to convert Christians, so I can see the point of both sides. Mormons feel that calling them non-Christian is insulting and ridiculous; they know they believe in and worship Jesus Christ just as much as other Christians do, and they share identical values now that mainstream Mormonism has been officially polygamy-free for ~116 years and actually polygamy-free for ~85 years. Why on earth would they be relegated to the status of a “cult of Christianity” just because of some doctrinal differences? On the other hand, Christians feel that the doctrinal differences are significant, and that the Jesus that Mormons believe in differs from their Jesus in too many ways to allow them to be considered “real” Christians. Anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/47 "2006-04-30T23:48:39Z")
[QUOTE=SCSimmons] OK, now I know what I’m going to answer in the future when someone asks me that. I won’t even deign to explain it … [/QUOTE] Glad I could help. 'Swot I’m here for. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/48 "2006-05-01T00:08:30Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] [Unbelievable!](http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203232,00.html) From the link above: [/QUOTE] Just out of curiosity, do you have a link to the story that is not from the Deseret News? With no offense meant to Utahns or LDS\*, my impression is that I would not rely on that paper for an entirely unbiased story related to LDS. It seems odd to me that no one else complained. I would think some vocal atheist would also be ticked off about being questioned about their religion. - My acquaintances generally seem to use this term for themselves rather than Mormon; apologies if I’m using it incorrectly. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/49 "2006-05-01T00:09:52Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] Sounds like the theater handled things pretty poorly, but I guess I can understand why somebody would try that. It would suck to get complaints from people who don’t like Mormonism … but why would anybody go to a religious movie without checking to see _what_ religion it was about? [/QUOTE] I did a Google search for “States of Grace”, and got the official web site: [http://www.statesofgrace.com/](http://www.statesofgrace.com/) The review on the front page says “A quantum leap forward for Christian cinema…”. The synopsis calls it “Christian-themed”. Maybe it’s clarified as Mormon-type Christianity somewhere on the site, but my cursory look did not find any reference. It doesn’t seem too improbable that the theater might get non-Mormon Christians who won’t realize it’s a “flavor” of Christianity they disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/50 "2006-05-01T00:11:47Z")
[QUOTE=LilyoftheValley] I would think some vocal atheist would also be ticked off about being questioned about their religion. [/QUOTE] I doubt there’s a lot of atheists going to see that movie. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/51 "2006-05-01T00:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] I doubt there’s a lot of atheists going to see that movie. [/QUOTE] Since it was playing in a regular 14-screen theater, I assumed it was much more mainstream than it was. I just poked around the website and it seems to be on extremely limited release. I do know atheists who are interested in seeing how religion is portrayed in popular media (though, as I said, after reading the website, I change my vote on this being popular media). I still do wonder if this got any coverage in San Diego newspapers. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/52 "2006-05-01T01:26:16Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The relevance of this paragraph is what? Some satanists are nice people, therefore it’s ok to ask inapprpropriate questions out of a cinema box office and offer unsolicited (and inaccurate) warnings about the religious content of the move? Again – relevance? [/QUOTE] Because they were mentioned in previous posts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/53 "2006-05-01T01:40:35Z")
Perhaps I need to reword the complaint. How can it possibly be considered acceptable to ask the patron’s religion when selling a cinema ticket? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/54 "2006-05-01T02:11:10Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Perhaps I need to reword the complaint. How can it possibly be considered acceptable to ask the patron’s religion when selling a cinema ticket? [/QUOTE] It’s not. I’ve hypothesised a motive for them asking, but it’s still not acceptable IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![liberty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/958977/32.png) [@liberty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/55 "2006-05-01T02:21:07Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] [Unbelievable!](http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203232,00.html) From the link above: Excuse me? You’re selling tickets to a movie that your employer has decided to show and you not only take it upon yourself to ask the patron’s religin, but to “warn” the patron? At least, get it right. On the positive side, also from the link above: Wow, and this happened in San Diego. [/QUOTE] The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a Christian religion. m Than you. Oh, and the term “Mormon” is a slur, ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/56 "2006-05-01T02:33:50Z")
[QUOTE=liberty] Oh, and the term “Mormon” is a slur, [/QUOTE] Are you sure about that? I never heard that before. [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) doesn’t deem it offensive. And it seems odd they’d call their choir the “Mormon Tabernacle Choir” if it was a slur. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/57 "2006-05-01T02:36:24Z")
[QUOTE=liberty] The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a Christian religion. m Than you. Oh, and the term “Mormon” is a slur, [/QUOTE] Uh, you are aware that **Monty** himself is LDS, right? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![liberty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/958977/32.png) [@liberty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/58 "2006-05-01T02:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Uh, you are aware that **Monty** himself is LDS, right? :dubious: [/QUOTE] no. Didn’t even know post went through. Mormon was given to lds members by an ex-communicated member I believe, ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/59 "2006-05-01T02:50:39Z")
Well, evidently that particular church itself doesn’t consider it a slur. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818/60 "2006-05-01T03:08:51Z")
[QUOTE=liberty] no. Didn’t even know post went through. Mormon was given to lds members by an ex-communicated member I believe, [/QUOTE] Huh. I always thought that it came from the fact that when the angel Moroni led Joseph Smith to the hill Cumhorra and gave him the seerstones Urim and Thumim so that he could read the golden plates, Smith called the translated text The Book Of Mormon. It seems natural that outsiders would call believers Mormons. I’ve been told that Mormon is not the preferred term, but never that it was a slur. I’m more concerned with the fact that people keep calling my religion Judaism. We do NOT worship Judah! Sure, during Hannukah mom includes this Judah Maccabee doll in the decorations and he’s really cute, like a Hebraic Cabbage Patch Kid, but we do NOT worship him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/state-your-religion-please-heres-your-ticket/354818.md?page=4)