# Statehood for D.C.? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442 "2020-09-24T21:15:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/141 "2020-10-16T17:02:07Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > You can suspect or even dismiss the motivations all you like and it doesn’t change the basic fact that Democratic interests coincide with better representation and Republicans’ interests don’t. Then I would like to see Democrats make the argument: “We think DC should be a state because that would add two Democratic senators, and, coincidentally, it would also provide for better representation.” Then it would be an honest argument. But that’s not the argument they’re making. They’re emphasising the coincidental objective, present it as the primary one, and omit the real primary objective from their rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/142 "2020-10-16T17:16:59Z")
Consider it made. What is the counter argument? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/143 "2020-10-16T18:20:00Z")
No particular counter-argument. It’s not that I’m opposed to DC statehood; but I like it when decision-makers and voters get to see the real reason why a particular agenda is being pushed for, rather than some noble pretext. Then they can decide whether that reason is good enough to go along or not. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/144 "2020-10-16T18:51:12Z")
So you don’t have an argument, you just don’t like the way proponents are arguing? Jesus Christ, we’ve laid out plenty of reasons why statehood is good for the residents and good for the country and good for the concept of basic _fairness._ And some of you just want to ignore all that because “partisanship.” I’ve conceded the point. But I’m not debating this issue anymore until an opponent actually steps up with a fucking argument. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/145 "2020-10-16T20:07:28Z")
@Schnitte, how about addressing my argument about the sheer racist aspect of the Republican position while you’re trying to push for morality? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/146 "2020-10-16T20:11:02Z")
I believe the residents of the District should have full representation in Congress proportionate to their population. However, I’m not certain that they should be a State, on equal footing with all the other States. The founders’ original vision for the District involved not allowing any one State to have undue influence over the seat of the Federal government. A polity with full state sovereignty has the potential for major shenanigans that could interfere with the operation of the federal government, and just like today we’re imagining scenarios in which some state legislatures might muck up the upcoming election because they don’t like the result, I can imagine a situation in which a DC state legislature or DC governor with full state executive powers might take actions against any or all of the three federal branches, or merely threatening said action, to prevent the federal government from acting against their interests. – That’s my post; hope you liked it! ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/147 "2020-10-16T23:48:56Z")
I appreciate the argument and the logic behind it. I guess I value the fair representation of the citizens of DC more than I fear the possibility of one of our states taking hostile action against the machinery of federal democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/148 "2020-10-17T02:18:51Z")
Every proposal for DC statehood I’ve seen retains a Federal District containing the White House, Congress, and the Supreme Court along with some other federal buildings. That would prevent your scenario. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/149 "2020-10-17T05:00:51Z")
The Pentagon is in Arlington County, Virginia (which interestingly enough puts it in the area that was part of the District of Columbia until it was retroceded to Virginia before the Civil War). CIA headquarters is in Langley, Virginia (in an area which has never been part of the District of Columbia). This has not given the state of Virginia any undue influence over the Department of Defense or the CIA. I think carving out a mini-district should be fine for preserving any need for the federal government to have its own special “turf”. Such a mini-district would presumably include the White House, the Ellipse and the National Mall, the Capitol, the Supreme Court building, and the Congressional office buildings, and perhaps at least some or all of the federal buildings in the “Federal Triangle” between Pennsylvania Avenue and Constitution Avenue. (You basically want to make sure you don’t include any houses or condos or apartment buildings–so that the only residents of the territory are the POTUS and family–and ideally I suppose you don’t want to include any private property at all, only areas that are already property of, as well as under the nominal jurisdiction of, the government of the United States.) Such a mini-district could be formed in the case of either the option of D.C. statehood or the (IMO inferior) option of retrocession to Maryland; and again, in either of those cases you’d have to do something about the 23rd Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/150 "2020-10-17T08:16:35Z")
You mean responding to the argument that Republicans are opposed to DC statehood because of the high percentage of African Americans in the population of DC? I don’t think this is true. I agree that Republicans are primarily opposed to DC statehood for partisan reasons, just as much as Democrats are in favour of it for primarily partisan reasons. I think, however, that the positions of the two parties on DC statehood would be much the same as they are if DC were populated by an overwhelmingly white population with a consistently pro-Democrat voting pattern. So I believe that race has very little to do with it in the thinking of either party. Of course I’m speculating here; I can’t prove the counterfactual of what the positions of the two parties would be if the demographics of DC were different. But you are just as much speculating when you claim that race is the primary reason for the Republicans in opposing it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/151 "2020-10-17T16:57:17Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > But you are just as much speculating when you claim that race is the primary reason for the Republicans in opposing it. That is true. It is also true that I am basing that speculation on thousands of examples of racism by the party over the last 50 years. Your speculation that the Republicans would act the same if whites were involved is based on what, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/152 "2020-10-17T17:18:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Your speculation that the Republicans would act the same if whites were involved is based on what, exactly? It’s based on a belief that racism is much less widespread, both within the Republican Party and elsewhere, than the constant accusations which have made the term “racist” a cheap go-to rhetoric would tend to make you think. And as for your observations of thousands of examples of racism: As ever so often, it depends on the mindset with which you approach a particular observation. If you observe something and interpret it with the prejudiced belief in your mind that racism must be behind it, then you will often find that prejudice confirmed, in the sense that the assumption that it is racist provides a consistent explanation for what you’ve observed. But there might be other explanations that are just as consistent with the observation, but which you are ignoring because you have already made up your mind beforehand that racism must be what’s behind it. In this case, as I pointed out before, the hypothesis that the motivation for the Republicans in opposing DC statehood is partisan tactics is a perfectly plausible alternative to the claim that it must be racially motivated. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/153 "2020-10-18T01:25:46Z")
Wow. Just wow. ---
**Author:** ![JustSaying3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@JustSaying3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustSaying3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/154 "2020-10-18T16:41:13Z")
Are you saying that Republicans would support DC statehood if it had the demographics/voting history of Rhode Island? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/155 "2020-10-18T17:05:03Z")
Where does this notion come from that DC has no representation, anyway? DC has more representation right now than anywhere else in the country. Residents of DC don’t have any say in how the country is run? The country is run almost entirely by residents of DC! Which is, of course, why it wasn’t made a state to begin with. It’s already overrepresented, and the Founders didn’t want to make it even more overrepresented than it was already guaranteed to be. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/156 "2020-10-18T17:07:01Z")
Residents in DC don’t have much say in how DC is run. Residents in DC have no voting representation in the House or the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/157 "2020-10-18T17:10:06Z")
Thing is, looking at the original size of the district (100 square miles) ISTM a basic reason for that would be that those who came up with the idea wanted (a) for the seat of the federal government to be a ward of Congress, completely under its suzerainty AND (b) that it be of such a size and population to have the necessary _internal_ tax base under Congress’ control to run the city. There is the matter of whether the Congress IS willing to let go of being under total controol of the city where they sit. Under normal circumstances it would not be outside the pale to propose an amendment that said DC is and will remain at all times be a special jurisdiction organized and administered as provided by Act of Congress and its offices, officers and actions responsible and accountable to Congress BUT entitled to representation as if it were a state. But the states themselves would resist diluting their own power that way. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/158 "2020-10-18T17:29:47Z")
I honestly can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic. ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/159 "2020-10-18T20:03:18Z")
To **JRDelirious** That’s a potentially good compromise. Since it’s a specific Amendment, there’d be room to negotiate about how exactly DC’s representation would work. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442/160 "2020-10-18T20:14:13Z")
Nope, completely serious. It’s a fairly normal thing, worldwide, for a nation’s capital to be in a special sort of district that doesn’t work like that nation’s other subdivisions. The contrast is a bit sharper in the US, because our sub-national divisions are more significant than some nations’, but the principle remains. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-d-c/921442.md?page=9)