# Statehood for Puerto Rico? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465 "2020-09-25T02:48:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/82 "2020-12-01T00:16:45Z")
Yup. Can’t help but wonder how Zakalwe feels about the Hawaiian independence movement and their chances. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/83 "2020-12-01T04:38:42Z")
I have no thought about the Hawaiian Independence Movement. Should I? Is there one that’s organized and can make a reasonable claim to majority support from Hawaii’s residents? Is Hawaii already a state that has representation in Congress and a vote for President? Please explain how this Hawaiian Independence Movement is comparable to Puerto Rico’s situation, because I seem to recall that Hawaii was offered above as a shining example of an overwhelming vote _in favor of statehood_. Was that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/84 "2020-12-01T05:05:57Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > I have no thought about the Hawaiian Independence Movement. Should I? You might enjoy a read. An interesting story of the democratic march toward statehood, Hawaii is. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/85 "2020-12-01T12:07:59Z")
No answer to the other questions I posed about its relevance to this thread? You could start a thread on the topic and lay out your position vis a vis the HIM. I might then educate myself and decide if I agree with you. Or I might not. I’m not, as far as I know, required to have strong opinions about every topic. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/86 "2020-12-01T14:01:25Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Okay, I can see that. I assume you’re in favor of the filibuster in the US Senate? Why doesn’t the House have one? The logical road you’re headed down is that no change should be implemented without some super-majority, but we allow that all the time. To answer your questions (without derailing this thread too much), yes I’m in favor of the filibuster in the Senate, when it is used sparingly based on deeply held convictions. Generally, I think the “status quo” should win by default, unless there is broad consensus that change is needed. The more collegial environment of the Senate is probably the best place to achieve those ends, and the best place to give filibuster power to. But even without a Senate filibuster, requiring all bills to get through the House, the Senate, and the President _individually_ with 50% +1 majorities does a reasonable job of weeding out un-needed garbage from becoming law. The House is, by it’s very design, full of hot-heads that closely reflect the will of the mob. I think giving hot-heads minority filibuster power as well would probably gum up the works _too much_ for things that should be routine. Adding a new state to the Union is anything _but_ routine. Pretty much every other major political change mentioned upthread (the ACA, Brexit, votes for President) created with 50%+1 majorities can be reversed with those same 50%+1 majorities, at least in a few years time. States are permanent. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/87 "2020-12-01T14:27:08Z")
Brexit can’t be reversed with 50%+1. Now that the UK has left the EU, to rejoin requires the agreement of every member state of the EU. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/88 "2020-12-01T14:52:34Z")
There is a whole other option. Politicians in Puerto Rico could run on a statehood platform and let republicanism rule. If PR has a governor and Legislative Assembly that support statehood then let them petition Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/89 "2022-04-21T15:25:44Z")
Bumped. This might make them even more interested in statehood: > **[Supreme Court rules Puerto Ricans don't have constitutional right to some...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/21/politics/puerto-rico-supreme-court-federal-disability-benefits/index.html)** > > Congress can exclude residents of Puerto Rico from some federal disability benefits available to those who live in the 50 states, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/90 "2022-04-21T16:10:48Z")
If they won’t vote a clear majority for statehood we should set them free. We can keep throwing money down that hole for several years while for their new government steals and wastes it and when we stop supporting them they can turn to their relatively rich neighbors like Haiti for help. The recent ruling has fairly minimal impact on the island’s residents, non-controversial at all, it was an 8-1 decision with only Puerto Rican born Sotomayor dissenting. It’s not enough to get the people there to make a decision which would result in cutting off the gravy train. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/91 "2022-06-20T09:37:08Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If they won’t vote a clear majority for statehood we should set them free. Perhaps we could recast your proposal as, “If they do not vote the way I want we should punish them.” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/92 "2022-06-20T10:06:42Z")
What nonsense. Freedom is not punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/93 "2022-06-20T10:14:33Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What nonsense I agree it is nonsense to insist that for some reason Puerto Ricans may not choose to live under the government of their grandfathers. It is nonsense to think outsiders may impose a binary choice on people in order to something, something, something. The form of Puerto Rico’s relationship to the Union seems to have withstood the test of time. It seems nonsense to change it without important reasons. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/94 "2022-06-20T13:29:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What nonsense. Freedom is not punishment. Having your rights taken away is punishment. Simply heaving Puerto Rico out of the USA is to remove, from its residents, their American citizenship and all the rights that come with that. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/95 "2022-06-20T13:38:55Z")
Again, giving them rights should they so choose. It’s that simple. It’s their choice, not yours. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/96 "2022-06-20T13:48:37Z")
You are literally saying that it SHOULDN’T be their choice, that PR should be ejected from the USA if they do not specifically want to be a state. Paul was in Saudi summed it up best; you are saying Puerto Ricans must have their citizenship taken away if they don’t do what you demand. I’m not even sure that’s Constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/97 "2022-06-20T13:54:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You are literally saying that it SHOULDN’T be their choice, that PR should be ejected from the USA if they do not specifically want to be a state. No, you don’t want them to have a choice. If they want their freedom they should get it. If they want to be a state they should get that. You are the one who insists they have to do what you want and they shouldn’t have a say in the matter. Also, no one is talking about taking their citizenship away. That’s something you made up. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/98 "2022-06-20T13:59:58Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You are the one who insists they have to do what you want and they shouldn’t have a say in the matter. I don’t understand what you’re talking about. When did I suggest they shouldn’t get a say? Of course they should - if they choose statehood, they should be a state. If they choose independence, they should be independent. But they should also have the choice to maintain the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/99 "2022-06-20T14:01:41Z")
I’d be fine with Puerto Rico being forced to choose in or out, if they vote out all current Puerto Ricans remain U.S. citizens for life, but going forward the independent nation of Puerto Rico, its newly born residents would not enjoy any special treatment in terms of citizenship (they would still have some special conditions as both of their parents would likely be U.S. citizens.) You don’t have to take Puerto Ricans’ citizenship status away to cut the territory loose. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/100 "2022-06-20T14:45:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > But they should also have the choice to maintain the status quo. Why? The Puerto Rican people are not served well by the current policy. The current status is a hot mess of corruption and incompetence, I can’t imagine why a Puerto Rican wouldn’t want statehood but I want to give them the choice. The only way to get a majority for statehood or independence is to remove the status quo from the options. A friend of mine was born on the island but lived most of his life here on the mainland because his parents sent him here when he was a child as many other have done because there is no future for the youth of Puerto Rico. Recently the diaspora has increased largely for that reason. Puerto Ricans living on the mainland outnumber those living on the island. Maintaining the current situation leaves no hope for Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465/101 "2022-06-20T15:22:41Z")
BTW unlike some prior Puerto Rico status threads I have been quieter in this one post-election since let’s just say professional involvements are putting me a bit closer than ever before to the matter and the certain wee bit of unpleasant vibe in some parts of this led me to think I’d better mostly stay away. That said, this last comment reminded me… > [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’d be fine with Puerto Rico being forced to choose in or out, if they vote out all current Puerto Ricans remain U.S. citizens for life, but going forward the independent nation of Puerto Rico, its newly born residents would not enjoy any special treatment in terms of citizenship (they would still have some special conditions as both of their parents would likely be U.S. citizens.) … that this is precisely what is being discussed for such a case in [the current House draft of legislation](https://naturalresources.house.gov/puerto-rico-political-status) intended to bridge various existing proposals. In case of Independence (or true Compact of Free Association a-la Marshall Islands), the extant citizens can choose to keep or change their status, the land stops conveying birthright US citizenship, and immediate descendants of citizens would be affected by such Nationality Act provisions as are in effect at the given time, with the possibility for added special consideration for a transitional period depending on what’s finally settled. Though the major opposition party (currently leading a legislative coalition) islandside _ **is** _ vigorously lobbying for there to remain an option to “leave the statu quo, but with the understanding it’s with the intention of negotiating a better deal later”. USDOJ has in the past indicated that the second clause of that sentence would be inofficious since in effect it turns it into not really the statu quo . As to how come the US Congress needs to legislate, well, even in case of an actual revolution, at some point some Congress will have to pass _something_ to officially legalize a change in the relationship so why not set up an ordered process to begin with. And this then ties in to a partisan morass of in-island politics where an argument to delegitimize local initiatives in one direction of the other has always been _"oh, but the vote on that proposal is not Federally Sanctioned™ "_, and that unless Congress offers terms first and commits to follow through on them, then anything we do is mere theater and everyone might as well abstain or vote “none of the above” or vote “NO” to protest the price of gas or corruption or the governor’s taste in neckties, or whatever. (That _ **that** _ has never been the way things work, noone seems able to get through.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statehood-for-puerto-rico/921465.md?page=6)