# Statistically, blacks score poorly on IQ and IQ-proxy exams than whites, is black genetics to blame?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 29, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488 "2011-08-29T12:43:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/21 "2011-08-29T16:57:05Z")
My cock drinks heavily and is illiterate.
---
### Author:  [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/22 "2011-08-29T17:02:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> And I’m not sure how you’d even quantify “the most interesting individuals in the world.”
Perhaps if their minds are expanding faster than the known universe.
---
### Author:  [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/23 "2011-08-29T17:10:50Z")
> [@OscarGold](#):
>
> This seems to me a very plausible explanation of why the high achievers and most interesting individuals in the world are white.
Not in my neighborhood.
---
### Author:  [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/24 "2011-08-29T17:24:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> My cock drinks heavily and is illiterate.
You can sell it as semi-prepared coq au vin.
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/25 "2011-08-29T17:27:55Z")
Yes, racial IQ is the most plausible scientific explanation for fascinating high achievers like the cast of the Jersey Shore.
---
### Author:  [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/26 "2011-08-29T17:38:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> My cock drinks heavily and is illiterate.
You might want to get that checked out.
---
### Author:  [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/27 "2011-08-29T18:01:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Yes, racial IQ is the most plausible scientific explanation for fascinating high achievers like the cast of the Jersey Shore.
I always wondered how our White Power Ranger “friends” would explain how, given the supposed superiority of the white man, they tend to attract those who aren’t exactly the brightest and best.
---
### Author:  [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/28 "2011-08-29T18:12:05Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#):
>
> QFT. There is far more genetic diversity within african populations than the rest of humanity.
Not trying to add fuel to the flame (since I don’t agree with the OP’s hypothesis), but is there less genetic diversity in African-_Americans_? Do their descendants tend to concentrate around specific parts of the Sub-Saharan? Just idly curious if anyone knows!
---
### Author:  [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/29 "2011-08-29T18:22:23Z")
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> Not trying to add fuel to the flame (since I don’t agree with the OP’s hypothesis), but is there less genetic diversity in African-_Americans_? Do their descendants tend to concentrate around specific parts of the Sub-Saharan? Just idly curious if anyone knows!
No, there’s \* more\* diversity. African-Americans likely have \*at least \* 10-15% [admixture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation#Genetic_studies_of_racial_admixture) with whites and/or Native Americans.
---
### Author:  [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/30 "2011-08-29T19:00:56Z")
I have always read most blacks in the Americas come from West Africa, so isn’t logical that there is less?
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/31 "2011-08-29T19:09:52Z")
Well, OK, so the Most Interesting Man in the World is white, but the Old Spice Guy is black. That seems like a pretty close one, to me.
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/32 "2011-08-29T19:26:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#):
>
> Yes, racial IQ is the most plausible scientific explanation for fascinating high achievers like the cast of the Jersey Shore.
They’re not white. They’re orange.
---
### Author:  [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/33 "2011-08-29T19:35:32Z")
I think a lot of people are misinterpreting “consider” to mean “think of the possibility”, when it really means “treat as a possibility”.
Other possible explanations are treated as if they are most likely true despite a tremendous dearth of legitimate evidence (e.g. the notion that standardized tests discriminate against blacks in some extremely subtle way) based on having ruled out a possible genetic explanation a priori.
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Of course people consider it. In fact, logic suggests it should be the first candidate for an explanation – Occam’s Razor says that we ought to start with that assumption.
>
> But it fails on closer examination. And so we no longer consider it, because it doesn’t fit all the facts.
I don’t think this is true.
It’s difficult if not impossible to prove. But it’s also difficult if not impossible to disprove, and I don’t think it ever has been.
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/34 "2011-08-29T19:54:59Z")
I would be willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, except that he’s clearly already drawn his own conclusions and is just pissy that everyone else disagrees:
> [@](#):
>
> Black genetics do not produce as many high iq individuals as whites. This seems to me a very plausible explanation of why the high achievers and most interesting individuals in the world are white.
---
### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/35 "2011-08-29T20:26:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#):
>
> Other possible explanations are treated as if they are most likely true despite a tremendous dearth of legitimate evidence (e.g. the notion that standardized tests discriminate against blacks in some extremely subtle way) based on having ruled out a possible genetic explanation a priori.
It’s more like “ruled out after a century or two of such racial theories proving to be lies”. “Race” isn’t even a genetic reality in the first place.
---
### Author:  [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/36 "2011-08-29T20:31:46Z")
> [@Honesty](#):
>
> No, there’s \* more\* diversity. African-Americans likely have \*at least \* 10-15% [admixture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscegenation#Genetic_studies_of_racial_admixture) with whites and/or Native Americans.
Fair enough. But of the 85-90% African mixture, does it tend to concentrate around specific parts of Africa? Are they, for example, more Kenyan than they are Liberian\*, or South African?
\*Though I suppose Liberian has obvious problems, since it’s composed of diasporic blacks who came FROM the U.S. back to Africa.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/37 "2011-08-29T20:47:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Well, OK, so the Most Interesting Man in the World is white, but the Old Spice Guy is black. That seems like a pretty close one, to me.
And for bonus points, the former is Jewish!
---
### Author:  [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/38 "2011-08-29T20:56:45Z")
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> \*Though I suppose Liberian has obvious problems, since it’s composed of diasporic blacks who came FROM the U.S. back to Africa.
The composition of [Liberians of African-American descent](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americo-Liberians) is quite marginal.
---
### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/39 "2011-08-29T20:58:17Z")
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> But of the 85-90% African mixture, does it tend to concentrate around specific parts of Africa? Are they, for example, more Kenyan than they are Liberian\*, or South African?
Most Africans taken as slaves to supply the Atlantic slave trade came from [these regions](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Africa_slave_Regions.svg/635px-Africa_slave_Regions.svg.png), so _most_ of black Americans’ African genetic heritage comes from those parts. Of course there have been immigrants from all parts of Africa since the end of slavery. (And, to the point about overall genetic diversity in Africa, it might be added that there has been European and Asian migration “back” to Africa as well.)
---
### Author:  [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/40 "2011-08-29T22:16:11Z")
> [@antonio107](#):
>
> Not trying to add fuel to the flame (since I don’t agree with the OP’s hypothesis), but is there less genetic diversity in African-_Americans_? Do their descendants tend to concentrate around specific parts of the Sub-Saharan? Just idly curious if anyone knows!
IIRC, African-Americans are less genetically diverse than Africans, as their ancestors are mostly from western Africa. However, they are more genetically diverse than Europeans or Asians.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488.md?page=3)