# Statistically, blacks score poorly on IQ and IQ-proxy exams than whites, is black genetics to blame? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488 "2011-08-29T12:43:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/101 "2011-09-01T01:09:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And it’s obvious to anyone who watches world track and field events or the NFL or the NBA that there is also a correlation with skin color and some skills that serve one well in certain sports. Really? That certainly explains why so many Fijians, Aboriginal Australians, Southern Indians, Andaman Islanders, and similar appearing groups dominate in so many sports. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/102 "2011-09-01T01:17:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Nah. How about this: I’ll stick to defending positions I actually hold. > > \*[I trust you’ll find this an invaluable aid in understanding my position.](http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Logic-Harry-Gensler/dp/0415226759) If you think that there is a logical flaw in his assertions, then post that. Playing this sort of insulting game is not conducive to a legitimate discussion and you are out of line. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/103 "2011-09-01T01:28:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So how do you separate the cultural factors and the alleged genetic ones? If two groups are both interested in a sport and have similar opportunities for maximizing their potential. Maybe there is a cultural factor against white basketball players nowadays. But there’s still a heck of a lot of them in college and I’m sure they wouldn’t mind a multi-million dollar NBA contract if they could swing it. There’s a lot of foreign white players from a lot of different countries (Argentina, Lithuania, Spain, Germany, Australia, Russia, etc.) without the same cultural biases yet the results are pretty similar. 60 years in and we’re still waiting for an explosive non-black perimeter player. BTW, the entire sports thing is always brought up to make people admit there are physical differences (because they’re more obvious and less un-PC to admit believing in) so it adds pressure to also allow that there must be mental ones as well. Even though I’m a basketball racist I don’t think there’s very good evidence of an innate mental difference like the OP or other board racists do. And as already pointed out if there is then the East Asians and the Jews are the master race, not white people. > [@](#): > > And if you think black guys are the best athletes, how do you account for increased presence of Asian ballplayers? Because being the best athlete isn’t always the main focus. Skills are skills. The best rebounder in the NBA last year was a [tubby white guy.](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1024&bih=609&q=Kevin%20Love&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi) I don’t think Steve Nash can jump over a piece of paper but he’s still one of the best point guards in the world. This seems like it would be more true in baseball. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/104 "2011-09-01T01:35:16Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > . . . like the OP or other board racists . . . . Do not accuse a poster of being a racist in Great Debates. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/105 "2011-09-01T01:42:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This is why we have science: because a lot of things that are “obvious to anyone” are turn out to be not obvious, and in fact, completely wrong. If everything that seemed obvious was exactly true, we wouldn’t need scientific inquiry. In terms of natural selection favouring different traits in different environments and cultures that doesn’t seem that controversial. Science is increasingly bearing that out as the cost of genome sequencing falls. > [@](#): > > While variation within populations accounts for the bulk of human genetic variation, around 5%–7% of genetic differences can be attributed to variation between populations [55]. Some of the significant genetic differences between human populations have arisen from recent selective events [56],[57]. Gene-culture coevolution may well turn out to be the characteristic pattern of evolutionary change in humans over recent time spans [22],[58] (see Box 2). **From this perspective, cultural practices are likely to have influenced selection pressures on the human brain, raising the possibility that genetic variation could lead to biases in the human cognitive processing between, as well as within, populations. In summary, there is no uniform human genetic program.** > **[PLOS Biology](https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/)** > [@](#): > > **Given these geographically differentiated polymorphisms, it is possible to group humans on the basis of their genetic make-up. Such grouping largely confirms historical separation of global populations by geography5. Indeed, a person’s major geographic group identity can be assigned with near certaintly on the basis of his or her DNA alone (now an accepted practice in forensics). There is growing evidence that some of the geographically differentiated polymorphisms are functional, meaning that they can lead to different biological outcomes (just how many is the subject of ongoing research). These polymorphisms can affect traits such as pigmentation, dietary adaptation and pathogen resistance (where evidence is rather convincing)10, 11, 12, and metabolism, physical development and brain biology (where evidence is more preliminary)6, 8, 13, 14.** > > For most biological traits, genetically based differentiation among groups is probably negligible compared with the variation within the group. For other traits, such as pigmentation and lactose intolerance, differences among groups are so substantial that the trait displays an inter-group difference that is non-trivial compared with the variance within groups, and the extreme end of a trait may be significantly over-represented in a group. > > Several studies have shown that many genes in the human genome may have undergone recent episodes of positive selection — that is, selection for advantageous biological traits6. This is contrary to the position advocated by some scholars that humans effectively stopped evolving 50,000–40,000 years ago15. In general, positive selection can increase the prevalence of functional polymorphisms and create geographic differentiation of allele frequencies. [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/box/461726a\_BX1.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/box/461726a_BX1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/106 "2011-09-01T01:55:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Really? That certainly explains why so many Fijians, Aboriginal Australians, Southern Indians, Andaman Islanders, and similar appearing groups dominate in so many sports. I’d recommend some of Jon Entine’s work summarizing which racial groups/populations tend to be overrepresented in some sports due to human biodiversity. [http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/express.htm](http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/express.htm) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/107 "2011-09-01T02:01:45Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Why is baseball being neglected in this discussion? > Ah, how interesting- this almost sounds like an acknowledgement that there are cultural factors involved in who plays sports (even if it’s still stereotyped). Can you point to anyone who denies that cultural factors are at play in sports? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/108 "2011-09-01T02:08:14Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I’d recommend some of Jon Entine’s work summarizing which racial groups/populations tend to be overrepresented in some sports due to human biodiversity. Does Entine limit his claims to a correlation of skin color–the point to which I was responding. (I don’t doubt that some populations are statistically better or worse than others in some endeavors; I simply reject the silly claim that there are super-populations of “races” for which those claims are valid. And if one makes a claim for a correlation of “skin color,” one should be able to support that claim, not move the goal posts.) ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/109 "2011-09-01T02:19:44Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Does Entine limit his claims to a correlation of skin color–the point to which I was responding. > > (I don’t doubt that some populations are statistically better or worse than others in some endeavors; I simply reject the silly claim that there are super-populations of “races” for which those claims are valid. And if one makes a claim for a correlation of “skin color,” one should be able to support that claim, not move the goal posts.) He’s referring to racial groups, or what Lahn & Ebenstein refer to in the Nature article as “major geographic groups”. Here is Entine’s longer article on the subject of groups and over/underrepresentation in sporting achievements. [http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/straw\_man\_of\_race.htm](http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/straw_man_of_race.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/110 "2011-09-01T02:23:05Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > No. I’m just pointing out you’re doing a bad job of arguing against the sports stereotype. Uh no, I was merely pointing out that people who argue that blacks dominate certain sports because of genetics(as you do) are being massively illogical. You, to take an obvious example simply take it for granted that genetics is the reason that blacks dominate the NFL and the NBA but seem to not recognize that using such logic, white domination of the UFC, amateur wrestling as well as the hurling Olympic events(discus, javelin, shot put) must be due to genetics. Most people on this thread seem to recognize that it’s ridiculous to think that genetics gives whites superior ability to throw a discus but without a second thought assume that genetics give blacks superior ability to shoot a basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/111 "2011-09-01T02:25:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can you point to anyone who denies that cultural factors are at play in sports? Fair enough, then please explain why you think genetics explain black domination of the NBA but doesn’t explain why Lithuanians dominated basketball in the Soviet Union? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/112 "2011-09-01T02:26:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Uh no, I was merely pointing out that people who argue that blacks dominate certain sports because of genetics(as you do) are being massively illogical. > . No they are not. It’s quite logical to expect different environments and cultures might favour certain traits. Therefore some populations will be overrepresented in some sports that require those traits. Again, read Entine’s [article](http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/straw_man_of_race.htm). Also, here in Slate: > [@](#): > > Few genes are known to be decisive in determining life outcomes. Nutrition, training, and other genes matter. But the evidence that this gene significantly influences athletic ability is strong. > > Now look at the frequency of the R and X variants in different populations. According to data published seven years ago in Human Molecular Genetics, the relative frequency of the X allele is 0.52 in Asians, 0.42 in whites, 0.27 in African-Americans, and 0.16 in Africans. If you break out the data further, the frequency of the XX genotype is 0.25 in Asians, 0.20 in European whites, 0.13 in African-Americans, and 0.01 in African Bantu. Conversely, the frequency of RR (the genotype for speed and power) is 0.25 in Asians, 0.36 in European whites, 0.60 in African-Americans, and 0.81 in African Bantu. Among Asians, you can expect to find one RR for every XX. Among whites, you can expect nearly two RRs for every XX. Among African-Americans, you can expect more than four RRs for every XX. > **[Race, genes, and sports.](https://slate.com/technology/2008/12/race-genes-and-sports.html)** > > A few days ago, I wrote about a test, now being marketed in the United States, that predicts whether your toddler has more potential as a power athlete... ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/113 "2011-09-01T02:29:39Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > He’s referring to racial groups, What “he” are you referring to? > [@Chen019](#): > > . . . or what Lahn & Ebenstein refer to in the Nature article as “major geographic groups”. We have been over this dozens of times. The “major geographic groups” do not actually share sufficient common characteristics to justify slapping the label “race” on them, although I suspect that you will continue to believe the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/114 "2011-09-01T02:33:12Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If two groups are both interested in a sport and have similar opportunities for maximizing their potential. Maybe there is a cultural factor against white basketball players nowadays. But there’s still a heck of a lot of them in college and I’m sure they wouldn’t mind a multi-million dollar NBA contract if they could swing it. There’s a lot of foreign white players from a lot of different countries (Argentina, Lithuania, Spain, Germany, Australia, Russia, etc.) without the same cultural biases yet the results are pretty similar. 60 years in and we’re still waiting for an explosive non-black perimeter player. A few points here. First: you state the groups must have " similar opportunities for maximizing their potential". But how is that even vaguely true in the real world? What are the chances of a Black basketball scholarship player being successful outside of basketball? And what are the chances for a White player? If, as I would assume, Black player has a much lower chance of succeeding as anything but a basketball player, doesn’t that invalidate one of your core assumptions? Second: Are there really equal numbers of Black and White college level players? Third are there equal numbers of Black and White High school players? Because if there are statistically more Blacks at the lower levels then you get what is known as a sampling multiplier effect at higher levels. Because the higher levels are not independent of the lower levels, a relatively small bias at the high school team level can translate into a huge bias at the NBA level. To help you visualise this, imagine that you have 100 genetically first string Black kids playing basketball in elementary school, and 99 While. By the time we get to the Junior High team tryouts we lose 10 kids in each pool to essentially random events: injuries, diversion to other activities, apathy and so forth. So now we have 90 Black and 80 white. Then we get to the first game of the season, and lose another 10 kids. And similarly for each other game, and for selection next year, and for High School team selection, for the game where the college selectors were watching, for College scholarship acceptance, for pro acceptance and so forth. Very rapidly that tiny initial discrepancy means that in any given year, the chance of a White kid being found in any given position is perishingly small. And this assumes that both groups have the same drop-out rates, which we know is not true. White kids are far more likely to sacrifice sports for academic studies than Black. > [@](#): > > Even though I’m a basketball racist I don’t think there’s very good evidence of an innate mental difference like the OP or other board racists do. And as already pointed out if there is then the East Asians and the Jews are the master race, not white people. So how do you explain the fact that Jews dominated basketball and boxing for the better part of a century before Blacks were allowed to play? Does that mean that Jews are physically superior to Gentiles? Or are you prepared to accept a cultural explanation for the success of Jews in those sports? > [@](#): > > Because being the best athlete isn’t always the main focus. Skills are skills. So skills are not part of being an athlete? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/115 "2011-09-01T02:33:46Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > What “he” are you referring to? > > We have been over this dozens of times. The “major geographic groups” do not actually share sufficient common characteristics to justify slapping the label “race” on them, although I suspect that you will continue to believe the opposite. 1. I’m referring to Entine. 2. I disagree, unless you want to do away with sub species and races in various other species? Also, what group identities are Lahn & Ebenstein referring to if there aren’t sufficient common characteristics? 3. Whether you call them races, or the more politically acceptable, “major geographic groups” or “major geographic populations” doesn’t change the reality. There are significant group differences due to diverse evolutionary cultures and environments, hence the different prevalence of certain heritable traits. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/116 "2011-09-01T03:54:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Fair enough, then please explain why you think genetics explain black domination of the NBA but doesn’t explain why Lithuanians dominated basketball in the Soviet Union? Lithuanian dominance may be due to genetics or it may be due to cultural factors, such as the sport being more popular with Lithuanians. I know very little of the culture to have an opinion one way or another. You seemed to have finally realized that I do not discount culture. Good. We need to only look at how basketball in the forties and fifties was seen to be the realm of Jews in New York. An even better sport to look at is boxing in the U.S. In it’s earliest days it was dominated by Irish, then Italians, then Blacks, and now they seem to be giving way to Hispanics. Occam suggests that this dominance is largely cultural, in that those in the inner cities tend to look to boxing as a way up and out. As we discuss this, there are larger numbers of Blacks and Hispanics working out in boxing gyms than Italians and Irish, so it is not surprising to see that they dominate the sport. That dominance may be due to genetics; it may be due to culture, or some combination of the two. We can’t say, because what we don’t know is what the belt holders would look like if boxers of all colors were equally represented in the gyms and equally motivated. Here in the U.S., sports like basketball and football are super popular. Pretty much any kid that is remotely athletic will play these sports as a kid. If you look at high school teams, you’ll see plenty of white kids playing, trying to get scholarships to college. Due In raw numbers, probably more than Black kids. One reason they are so well represented in high school is because many schools are predominantly white. But when you get to college, the percentage of white kids at the speed positions drops. Why? Because colleges have a broader, more select pool to pick from. I played football in high school—started at cornerback and flanker—and I could have maybe played (non-scholarship) at a small college, but that’s it. Yet, even though we have more whites than blacks at the high school level, that reverses in college and the pros. To the point that finding a white player in a speed position is pretty tough. Given the racial distribution in the U. S., and on high school football fields—kids that have dreams of college scholarships and the NFL, and given the dominance of Blacks at the speed positions, it suggests that there is something genetic at work. Why you are so intent in not considering that is baffling. Actually, it’s not baffling, as it seems to simply be due to a preconceived ideological position you are intent on clinging to. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/117 "2011-09-01T04:50:06Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Given the racial distribution in the U. S., and on high school football fields—kids that have dreams of college scholarships and the NFL, and given the dominance of Blacks at the speed positions, it suggests that there is something genetic at work. Why you are so intent in not considering that is baffling. Actually, it’s not baffling, as it seems to simply be due to a preconceived ideological position you are intent on clinging to. What is baffling is your insistence that it must be racial without a shred of evidence to support such a claim. You accept that up to the 1950s, basketball was a popular sport amongst White Gentile kids. Right? You accept that up to the 1950s, there were far more Gentiles in the US than Jews. Right? You accept that up to the 1950s, more Gentiles than Jews wanted to get college scholarships. Right? And you accept that up to the 1950s, Jews were grossly overrepresented in professional basketball. Right? And you accept that the dominance of Jews in basketball up to the 1950s was not due to Jews being physically superior. Right? And yet then you want us to believe that because there are far more Whites in the US than Gentiles, and thus more Whites than Blacks want to get college scholarships, there can only be one explanation for why Blacks are grossly overrepresented in professional basketball. It must be genetic. :smack: Okkams’’ Razor, man, Okkam’s Razor. It’s ignorant and illogical to needlessly multiply entities. We all accept that culture can lead to the grossest over-representations of minorities in sports. We know that Black culture is different to White culture. So we can explain the over-representation of Blacks in some sports solely through culture. There is no need to invoke a genetic mechanism. The cultural mechanism explains all the observations perfectly well. The reason that we are refusing to consider a genetic explanation is that you have failed to give us any \*need \*to consider it. All you’ve done is construct an argument from ignorance. Why should we consider such an argument? Simple question\*\* magellan01\*\*: What observations do you have that can’t be explained just as well \*without \*invoking genetic differences? If you can’t answer that question then you have nothing that is \*worth \*considering. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/118 "2011-09-01T05:10:49Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > The reason that we are refusing to consider a genetic explanation is that you have failed to give us any \*need \*to consider it. Do you actually read what other people [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14206761&postcount=112), or just read what suits you? ---
**Author:** ![annadaniello14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@annadaniello14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annadaniello14)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/119 "2011-09-01T05:11:35Z")
Whoa, ‘most interesting group of individuals in the world’? Just… whoa. Anyway, I don’t know a lot about heredity OR the history of the world, but I seriously doubt it’s genetics. I know a lot of smart black people, and even if they don’t have high IQs, they’re smart. Clever. And a lot of the time if someone is smart but doesn’t do well on an IQ test it’s because of the environment they grew up in/live in. A lot of black kids grow up in ‘ghetto’ families, and a lot of ‘ghetto’ families aren’t the smartest to say the least, not that there’s something wrong with that. Remember that America’s blacks are mostly descended from slaves, most of which were not the most _educated_ (remember that educated is not the same thing as naturally smart). ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/120 "2011-09-01T11:40:23Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Do you actually read what other people [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14206761&postcount=112), or just read what suits you? I say again: The reason that we are refusing to consider a genetic explanation is that you have failed to give us any \*need \*to consider it. Nothing in the post you linked to is an observation that requires a genetic cause. Care to try again? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488.md?page=7)