# Statistically, blacks score poorly on IQ and IQ-proxy exams than whites, is black genetics to blame? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488 "2011-08-29T12:43:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/141 "2011-09-01T23:39:33Z")
@ **Belowjob2.0** , I’ve posted this up thread, but you presumably did not read it. > [@](#): > > This history of human demography, along with selection, has resulted in complex patterns of genetic diversity. The basic unit of this diversity is polymorphisms — specific sites in the genome that exist in multiple variant forms (or alleles). Many polymorphisms involve just one or a few nucleotides, but some may involve large segments of genetic material2. The presence of polymorphisms leads to genetic diversity at the individual level such that no two people’s DNA is the same, except identical twins. The alleles of some polymorphisms are also found in significantly different frequencies among geographic groups1, 5. An extreme example is the pigmentation gene SLC24A5. An allele of SLC24A5 that contributes to light pigmentation is present in almost all Europeans but is nearly absent in east Asians and Africans10. > > \*\*Given these geographically differentiated polymorphisms, it is possible to group humans on the basis of their genetic make-up. Such grouping largely confirms historical separation of global populations by geography5. Indeed, a person’s major geographic group identity can be assigned with near certaintly on the basis of his or her DNA alone (now an accepted practice in forensics). There is growing evidence that some of the geographically differentiated polymorphisms are functional, meaning that they can lead to different biological outcomes (just how many is the subject of ongoing research). \*\*These polymorphisms can affect traits such as pigmentation, dietary adaptation and pathogen resistance (where evidence is rather convincing)10, 11, 12, and metabolism, physical development and brain biology (where evidence is more preliminary)6, 8, 13, 14. > > For most biological traits, genetically based differentiation among groups is probably negligible compared with the variation within the group. For other traits, such as pigmentation and lactose intolerance, differences among groups are so substantial that the trait displays an inter-group difference that is non-trivial compared with the variance within groups, and the extreme end of a trait may be significantly over-represented in a group. > > Several studies have shown that many genes in the human genome may have undergone recent episodes of positive selection — that is, selection for advantageous biological traits6. This is contrary to the position advocated by some scholars that humans effectively stopped evolving 50,000–40,000 years ago15. In general, positive selection can increase the prevalence of functional polymorphisms and create geographic differentiation of allele frequencies. [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/box/461726a\_BX1.html](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7265/box/461726a_BX1.html) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/142 "2011-09-01T23:52:42Z")
> [@](#): > > For most biological traits, genetically based differentiation among groups is probably negligible compared with the variation within the group. Not bothering to read your own cites? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/143 "2011-09-02T00:06:49Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Not bothering to read your own cites? He does that a lot. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/144 "2011-09-02T00:27:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > This is of course why Jamaica, Brazil and Nigeria are such famous basketball powerhouses and why Cuba and Ghana are renowned for producing great sprinters. I don’t know about the others you mention, but for its size (pop. ~10mil) Cuba has been vastly overrepresented in the speed events, with Enrique Figuerola winning the 100 meter Olympic Silver Medal in 1964, Alberto Juantorena winning Gold in the 400m (and 800m) in (I think) 1972, and with the current 110m hurdle World Record holder all being Cuban. I believe the current high jump WR is still held by a retired Cuban athlete. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/145 "2011-09-02T01:00:47Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I don’t know about the others you mention, but for its size (pop. ~10mil) Cuba has been > vastly overrepresented in the speed events, with Enrique Figuerola winning the 100 meter > Olympic Silver Medal in 1964, Alberto Juantorena winning Gold in the 400m (and 800m) in > (I think) 1972, and with the current 110m hurdle World Record holder all being Cuban. > I believe the current high jump WR is still held by a retired Cuban athlete. That’s a handful of medals over the course of several decades. Nevertheless, Cuba is a country where most of the population(by the definitions of this board and American standards) are black and where people are pushed into athletics by a government that spends an inordinant amount of time and money pushing it. Still despite the fact that it’s population who can trace their ancestry back to Africa isn’t dramatically smaller than America’s African-American population its people haven’t done remotely as well. Success in athletics has far, far more to do with culture than genetics. If dopers who buy all the bullshit theories about blacks’ “genetic superiority” were right then African-Americans wouldn’t have done so dramatically better than other African populations in the Caribean, Latin America, and West Africa. For that matter, people might wonder why Brazil which has IIRC, far and away the world’s largest black population seems to constantly lose out in soccer and basketball to Argentina which is the Whitest country outside of Europe IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/146 "2011-09-02T01:41:09Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Not bothering to read your own cites? At least you’re now reading other peoples posts 🙂 Let me explain the point using an example of height (another heritable, quantitative trait). There is significant overlap between different population distributions. That is, Swedes might be taller than Vietnamese on average, but the range of heights within each group is larger than the difference in the averages. Similarly, there is significant overlap between male and female heights. Much greater than the average difference. Nevertheless, at the tails of the distribution one would find very large discrepancies, even with a small average difference. For instance, if you were looking at people above 6 ft tall a far greater proportion would be men than women. Similarly a far greater proportion would be Swedes than Vietnamese. Take that in terms of intelligence, which has similar heritability to height. There is considerable overlap between the black and european populations. But there is a consistent average difference of about [1 standard deviation](https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/disparate-impact-realism-1.pdf). Accordingly, above certain levels the proportion you’ll find from each population is significantly different. This point, and the social implications, is explained in greater detail by Linda Gottfredson [here](http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/2004socialconsequences.pdf). ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/147 "2011-09-02T02:13:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s a handful of medals over the course of several decades. It is more than a handful considering the numbers of people. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Nevertheless, Cuba is a country where most of the population(by the definitions of this board and American standards) are black This I am not sure about one way or the other. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > and where people are pushed into athletics by a government that spends an inordinant amount of time and money pushing it. Quite so. But how about Jamaica (Usain Bolt)? Trinidad (Haisley Crawford)? The Bahamas (Pauilne Davis-Thompson), and, on the other side of the world, Australia (Patrick Johnson)? > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Still despite the fact that it’s population who can trace their ancestry back to Africa isn’t dramatically smaller than America’s African-American population its people haven’t done remotely as well. The US has over 30 million people with African ancestry, and they have won a hell of a lot of world championships. Make that s f\*ck of a lot. But now that you mention it the only non African-American to win a national sprint title (100-200-400m) in the last 50 years has I think been Jeremy Wariner. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Success in athletics has far, far more to do with culture than genetics. Sticking with the sprints the 500-plus fastest times for the 100 meter dash are held by men of African ancestry. No others have run 100m faster than 10.00 > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > If dopers who buy all the bullshit theories about blacks’ “genetic superiority” were right then African-Americans wouldn’t have done so dramatically better than other African populations in the Caribean, Latin America, and West Africa. As I have pointed out, the Caribbeans of African descent are the class of the field, in proportion to their numbers. Why Africa itself is unrepresented in the sprints (although not in the distance events) is curious. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > For that matter, people might wonder why Brazil which has IIRC, far and away the world’s largest black population seems to constantly lose out in soccer and basketball to Argentina which is the Whitest country outside of Europe IIRC. I would like to limit my participation here to sprinting ability, and will await someone else’s comments regarding Brazilian soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/148 "2011-09-02T03:06:27Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > I would like to limit my participation here to sprinting ability, and will await > someone else’s comments regarding Brazilian soccer. People who say culture is important don’t seem to realise that no one denies that. However, to be a top sprinter you also need a certain level of natural ability. And the reality is that overwhelmingly in the top level this is concentrated amongst people of west african ancestry. Just look at the stats on people who have run the 100 metres in under 10 seconds. How many are **not** of West African ancestry? In ‘Taboo’ Jon Entine calculated the probability of all 40 finalists in the 100 metres in the 5 previous Olympics (at the time of the book) being of West African ancestry, given they are only 8% of the world population. For the answer see page 34 [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=WVIGQ7WGdp8C&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=west%20african&f=false). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/149 "2011-09-02T03:43:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I didn’t. It’s not about another poster, it’s a general observation about “the population at large”. **tomndebb** and I discussed this. Please consult him. Then you can undo this “last” admonishment. > > Thank you. Your comment was in direct response to another poster. Your claim (in another venue) that you were going to be “playing that game” is duly noted and you are duly informed that you will be Warned if you continue this attempt to violate the rules. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/150 "2011-09-02T03:50:14Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Sticking with the sprints the 500-plus fastest times for the 100 meter dash are held > by men of African ancestry. No others have run 100m faster than 10.00. Actually, your claim is too broad. The records are held by men of ancestry from a specific region in Western Africa, North of Angola, West of Sudan, Uganda, and Tanzania, and South of Morocco, (and possibly South of Mauretania). By attempting to broaden the category to “men of Africa,” you appear to be making a claim about some alleged “race,” when we are really looking at a limited population within Africa. The speed may well be genetic, but it is not “racial.” ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/151 "2011-09-02T04:02:52Z")
Why is it that in discussions like this, Jews (even the European Ashkenazim) are labeled as ‘not white’ (which I can understand if you link minorities and non whites) or ‘non-European’ (which makes no sense at all if most tests are done on European Jews)? Is this another way of saying, “Jews are kind of like white people, but they’re really not…”? Haven’t we kind of decided that in most science circles, ‘white’ is a social construct? So if Jews are no longer “Hebrews” as they were a few generations ago, why then distinguish them in IQ studies? _Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of X compared to their European counterparts…_ ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/152 "2011-09-02T04:17:22Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > It is more than a handful considering the numbers of people. > . Dude, you mentioned three people over a time span of sixty years, twelve Olympics and dozens is not hundreds of Track and Field events. > [@](#): > > This I am not sure about one way or the other. If we use American standards regarding who is and isn’t black then about two thirds of all Cubans are black, though this is obviously not true of Cuban-Americans. Obviously, most people in Cuba don’t feel this way since they only consider people to be black if they are of 100% African ancestry were we to use the Cuban understanding of who is and isn’t black then this whole thread is even more moronic then now since only a small number of African-Americans would be considered black in Cuba, or for that matter, Brazil, South Africa, Jamaica or just about any country where most people are of African descent. To put it another way, using American standards there are about 30 million blacks in America and about 7 million blacks in Cuba yet Cubans have produce far, far fewer high quality sprinters than have been produced in America. > [@](#): > > Quite so. But how about Jamaica (Usain Bolt)? Trinidad (Haisley Crawford)? > The Bahamas (Pauilne Davis-Thompson), and, on the other side of the world, > Australia (Patrick Johnson)? Until rather recently, Jamaica wasn’t producing that many high class sprinters and despite the fact that more people of 100% or close to 100% African ancestry live in the Caribbean countries, they haven’t produced remotely as many high quality sprinters as have been produced by the African-American community. > [@](#): > > The US has over 30 million people with African ancestry, and they have won > a hell of a lot of world championships. Yes, and they’ve managed to win vastly more medals and produce vastly more high quality sprinters than West African and Caribbean countries have. Moreover, if African genetics were so key in producing great sprinters, the African-American community would be a distinct disadvantage compared to other countries since their “genetic purity” has been diluted by so many racially inferior whites raping black women and ensuring that only a tiny minority of African-American are “true tribesmen”. It’s pretty obvious that the African-American community produces so many elite athletes due to cultural reasons not genetic factors. > [@](#): > > As I have pointed out, the Caribbeans of African descent are the class of the field, in proportion to their numbers. Compared to the African-American community, which, as mentioned has vastly fewer “true tribesmen” and most of who’s members have been polluted by racially inferior whites, they’ve done little being far more racially pure. > [@](#): > > Why Africa itself is unrepresented in the sprints > (although not in the distance events) is curious. What curious about that is that most people when noticing that Africans who vastly, vastly outnumber African-Americans(even if one counts all of the racially impure African-Americans) haven’t produced remotely as many high-quality sprinters, would think this is strong evidence that “blacks” don’t have “genes” that make them superior sprinters. > [@](#): > > Sticking with the sprints the 500-plus fastest times for the 100 meter dash are held > by men of African ancestry. And yet virtually every one of the 500-plus fastest times is held by a man of European descent. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/153 "2011-09-02T04:18:39Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, your claim is too broad. The records are held by men of ancestry from a specific region in Western Africa, North of Angola, West of Sudan, Uganda, and Tanzania, and South of Morocco, (and possibly South of Mauretania). By attempting to broaden the category to “men of Africa,” you appear to be making a claim about some alleged “race,” when we are really looking at a limited population within Africa. > > The speed may well be genetic, but it is not “racial.” “Western Africa” is fine with me. As for the nuances of what is and/or is not a “race” and whether the term is scientifically significant I will for the time being remain a spectator to the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/154 "2011-09-02T04:19:41Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Why is it that in discussions like this, Jews (even the European Ashkenazim) are labeled as ‘not white’ (which I can understand if you link minorities and non whites) or ‘non-European’ (which makes no sense at all if most tests are done on European Jews)? Is this another way of saying, “Jews are kind of like white people, but they’re really not…”? Haven’t we kind of decided that in most science circles, ‘white’ is a social construct? So if Jews are no longer “Hebrews” as they were a few generations ago, why then distinguish them in IQ studies? > > _Ashkenazi Jews have an average IQ of X compared to their European counterparts…_ Ashkenazi jews are an interesting example of a population where cultural factors favoured selection for certain cognitive traits. I’d recommend taking the time to read this paper. [http://web.mit.edu/hst.508/www/Ashkenazi.pdf](http://web.mit.edu/hst.508/www/Ashkenazi.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/155 "2011-09-02T04:27:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What curious about that is that most people when noticing that Africans who vastly, vastly outnumber African-Americans(even if one counts all of the racially impure African-Americans) haven’t produced remotely as many high-quality sprinters, would think this is strong evidence that “blacks” don’t have “genes” that make them superior sprinters.. What kind of facilities do west african countries have? You seem to think that if genes play a role, then training, nutrition and culture play no role. You need to realise it isn’t an either/or scenario! Both are important. Again, take a note of the ancestry of the top 100 metre sprinters. In ‘Taboo’ Jon Entine calculated the probability of all 40 finalists in the 100 metres in the 5 previous Olympics (at the time of the book) being of West African ancestry, given they are only 8% of the world population. For the answer see page 34 [here.](http://books.google.com/books?id=WVIGQ7WGdp8C&printsec=frontcover#v=snippet&q=west%20african&f=false) Note the lack of europeans or asians who have run the 100 metres under 10 seconds? [Even when Eastern Europeans were blatantly doping they couldn’t get anyone to run that fast](http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/straw_man_of_race.htm)! > [@](#): > > \*\*The pool of potential great sprinters (and athletes with fast burst, anaerobic skills) is deepest among athletes of West African descent. Claude Bouchard, geneticist at the Pennington Biomedical Research Center at Louisiana State University, found that such populations have a higher percentage of “energy efficient” fast twitch muscle fibers to complement their naturally more mesomorphic physiques. “West Africans have 70 percent of the fast type muscle fibers when they are born,” adds Saltin. “And that’s needed for a 100-meter race around 9.9 seconds.” \*\* > > Some critics have noted that there have been a few great white sprinters, such as Valery Borzov, the Russian who won Olympic gold in 1972. Borzov’s moment of glory, although an Olympic win, was pedestrian in historical terms. It doesn’t even rank in the top 500 sprints of all time. Athletes of primarily West African origin, including African Americans, hold the top 200 and 494 of the top 500 times. No white, Asian or East African has ever cracked ten seconds in the 100. In fact, there are more elite sprinters from any one of the largest West African countries–Senegal, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ghana–then from all of Asia and the white populations of the world combined. > > In fact, the old Eastern bloc countries provided a unique laboratory to evaluate the radical environmentalist’s canard that humans are infinitely plastic. The world’s most elaborate sports factory combined with state-supervised illegal drug supplements still could not turn even one East German or Soviet sprinter into the world’s fastest human. The vaunted Eastern European sporting machines lavished much of their efforts, which included sophisticated use of performance enhancing drugs, on its female athletes, where the drug cocktails had the most impact. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/156 "2011-09-02T04:30:28Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, your claim is too broad. The records are held by men of ancestry from a specific region in Western Africa, North of Angola, West of Sudan, Uganda, and Tanzania, and South of Morocco, (and possibly South of Mauretania). By attempting to broaden the category to “men of Africa,” you appear to be making a claim about some alleged “race,” when we are really looking at a limited population within Africa. > > The speed may well be genetic, but it is not “racial.” Moreover, the overwhelming majority of people of West African descent are not African-Americans yet African-Americans make up the majority of people on that list. Moreover since most African-Americans are of European descent, the vast majority of people on that list are people of European descent. One of the problems with discussions like this is that most people have swallowed without a second thought the idea that anyone who has African ancestry is “black”. We regularly make references to “light-skinned blacks” but we never refer to “dark-skinned whites”. Maybe if we started thinking about how many “dark-skinned whites” were sprinters, wide receivers, running backs, and point guards we’d recognize just how moronic this whole argument is. Unfortunately scientific racists have never been concerned with actual science as opposed to pseudo-science. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/157 "2011-09-02T04:34:14Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Again, take a note of the ancestry of the top 100 metre sprinters. In ‘Taboo’ Jon Entine calculated the probability of all 40 finalists in the 100 metres in the 5 previous Olympics (at the time of the book) being of West African ancestry, given they are only 8% of the world population. Er… and most of those people were probably of European descent as well. > [@](#): > > Note the lack of europeans or asians who have run the 100 metres under 10 seconds? Carl Lewis never ran the 100 metres in under 10 seconds? ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/158 "2011-09-02T04:35:33Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… and most of those people were probably of European descent as well. > > Carl Lewis never ran the 100 metres in under 10 seconds? Heh, yeah a tiny percentage of their ancestry relative to the West African portion. Again, if genes were evenly distributed it would be reasonable to anticipate more of the 92% of the population who aren’t of west african descent to have cracked the 100 metres in under 10 seconds. It’s a glamour event, there are huge incentives to do well in it. Carl Lewis did run the 100 metres under 10 seconds on several occasions. The 1988 Olympics for instance. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/159 "2011-09-02T04:50:21Z")
Another example is [East African running success](http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/straw_man_of_race.htm): > [@](#): > > The East African edge, if you will, reflects the impact of evolution on body type and physiology. “Africans are naturally, genetically, more likely to have less body fat, which is a critical edge in elite running,” notes Joseph Graves, Jr., an evolutionary biologist at Arizona State University and author of The Emperor’s New Clothes: Biological Theories of Race at the Millenium. “Evolution has shaped body types and in part athletic possibilities. Don’t expect an Eskimo to show up on an NBA court or a Watusi to win the world weightlifting championship,” adds Graves, who is African American. “Differences don’t necessarily correlate with skin color, but rather with geography and climate. Endurance runners are more likely to come from East Africa. That’s a fact. Genes play a major role in this.” > > Neither science nor the empirical evidence supports the default myth widely peddled by the media that Kenyans dominate because of social factors. “I lived right next door to school,” laughs Kenyan-born Wilson Kipketer, world 800-meter record holder, dismissing such cookie-cutter explanations. “I walked, nice and slow.” Some kids ran to school, some didn’t, he says, but it’s not why we succeed. And for every Kenyan monster-miler, there are others, like Kipketer, who get along on less than thirty. “Training regimens are as varied in Kenya as any where in the world,” notes Colm O’Connell, coach at St. Patrick’s Iten, the famous private school and running factory in the Great Rift Valley that turned out Kipketer and other Kenyan greats. O’Connell eschews the mega-training so common among runners in Europe and North America who have failed so miserably in bottling the Kenyan running miracle. > > “Very many in sports physiology would like to believe that it is training, the environment, what you eat that plays the most important role in sports. But based on the data, the genes are what counts most,” states the top scientist in t human performance research, Bengt Saltin, director of the Copenhagen Muscle Research Center. Saltin outlined his widely embraced findings in “Muscles and Genes,” the September 2000 cover story in Scientific American. “The extent of the environment can always be discussed but it’s less than 20, 25 percent. It is ‘in your genes’ whether or not you are talented or whether you will become talented.” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488/160 "2011-09-02T05:00:24Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > Heh, yeah a tiny percentage of their ancestry relative to the West African portion. Do you actually have any idea what percent of Carl Lewis’s ancestry is African, European, or North American? I have never seen his family tree and I doubt that you have, either. Given that there is a very large admixture of European and North American blood/DNA in the group (self-)identified as black or African American, unless you have an actual family tree, I see no reason to accept your unsupported assertion that non-West African ancestry is a “tiny percentage” of the ancestry of any given sprinter who was born in the U.S. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/statistically-blacks-score-poorly-on-iq-and-iq-proxy-exams-than-whites-is-black-genetics-to-blame/594488.md?page=9)